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"If I Were Prime Minister," by Ian Fleming (Full Article!)

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  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Bounine wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    A great article, now less sure than ever if Fleming was a leftie or rightie.

    And could not care less since I enjoy his writing on 007.

    This is why I mentioned Burgess, who had the same agent as Fleming and was politically all over the map.
    Bounine wrote:
    If Fleming was referring to the fact that Commonwealth citizens should be welcome to live in the UK and UK citizens should be able to reside in other Commonwealth countries for as long as they want then I'm all for it. With the advent of the EU, the UK has pretty much turned their backs on the Commonwealth.

    Tell me about it. I am Canadian and married a British woman and had to go through so many loops to immigrate in the UK, while someone from a EU country can come here and is entitled to work without knowing much if any English.

    Yeah, it's rubbish. The Commonwealth countries might as well become independent republics as it means very little anymore.

    I wonder what Fleming would make of the EU.

    Interesting thought. I'm half inclined to say that he would despise anything to do with it. But, as people have said, Fleming was very 'shadowy' when it came to his political direction.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    A great article, now less sure than ever if Fleming was a leftie or rightie.

    And could not care less since I enjoy his writing on 007.

    This is why I mentioned Burgess, who had the same agent as Fleming and was politically all over the map.
    Bounine wrote:
    If Fleming was referring to the fact that Commonwealth citizens should be welcome to live in the UK and UK citizens should be able to reside in other Commonwealth countries for as long as they want then I'm all for it. With the advent of the EU, the UK has pretty much turned their backs on the Commonwealth.

    Tell me about it. I am Canadian and married a British woman and had to go through so many loops to immigrate in the UK, while someone from a EU country can come here and is entitled to work without knowing much if any English.

    Yeah, it's rubbish. The Commonwealth countries might as well become independent republics as it means very little anymore.

    I wonder what Fleming would make of the EU.

    Interesting thought. I'm half inclined to say that he would despise anything to do with it. But, as people have said, Fleming was very 'shadowy' when it came to his political direction.

    Ponder no more. Please see the discussion on CBn that I initiated last year:

    http://debrief.commanderbond.net/topic/62249-what-would-ian-fleming-have-thought-of-the-eu/?hl=+ian++fleming++european++union#entry1228980
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Those are interesting comments; thanks for sharing. I am not personally very informed about the EU. I know plenty of members here are, and I look forward to more comments from them.
    I wish I were a member of the EU, it would make traveling to places I really want to go (and work) much easier.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    This just made my birthday!
  • DNA_ImbroglioDNA_Imbroglio Banned
    edited November 2013 Posts: 3
    HAPPY BIRTHDAY 007inVT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

    My thoughts on the article. Such a gifted writer and its as I've always said, Ian will be a legend who lives forever despite whatever his politcal views may be.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    Well thank you @DNA_Imbroglio and welcome to the Firm!
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,918
    A few other points of interest in the piece--"Mr. Gaitskell" of course refers to Hugh Gaitskell, the Labour party leader who had an affair with Fleming's wife, though I don't remember if that happened before or after this article. Luckily Fleming was not the jealous type...
    Fleming's gripes about men's clothing tie into his own preferences for light-weight clothing and less formal items, like the short-sleeved shirts we wore with his suits.
    The mention of "infuriator" of course reminds us of M (and perhaps Fleming's) affection for this bad wine.
    Lastly, it's too bad no one ever followed up on Fleming's proposals for the Isle of Wight. Vegas is a poor substitute and too family-friendly.
  • DeJunkanoooDeJunkanooo Banned
    edited November 2013 Posts: 25
    He could make it work.
  • DNA_ImbroglioDNA_Imbroglio Banned
    Posts: 3
    Trish, I always felt like bureaucracy is really what is killing the world today. Take it from me, I work in the medical field and EVERYTHING, just EVERYTHING is dependent on paperwork. In my field, I analyze DNA samples for paternity tests. I suspect it is the same the world round- You can't do anything unless you have the proper paperwork. I'd like to just scan the semen and declare who the father is but not that easy.

    I think if Ian Fleming were prime minister he would recognize the plight of the working people and try to ease up on some of it. I would hope he would cut down on the drinking a bit as well , I understand he could drink quite a bit. He is a lovely man and a lovely writer, but well, as Dirty Harry said in "Magnum Force" a man's got to know his limitations.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Yes, Trish, Fleming seems not to have thought this out very well. On the one hand, he claims to despise high taxation; on the other he wishes to arrogate to government all sorts of powers and expensive projects. Either Fleming didn't really give much thought to formal politics and policies (possible, he claims to be an apolitical animal), or he merely dashed the article off at a moment's notice (also possible). But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.
  • BounineBounine
    edited November 2013 Posts: 2,599
    4EverBonded wrote:
    Those are interesting comments; thanks for sharing. I am not personally very informed about the EU. I know plenty of members here are, and I look forward to more comments from them.
    I wish I were a member of the EU, it would make traveling to places I really want to go (and work) much easier.


    True but I recommend that any country on the continent such as Turkey should not become a member of the EU at the moment.

  • DNA_ImbroglioDNA_Imbroglio Banned
    Posts: 3
    Trish, that is horrible. I shall PM you at once but perhaps this should not be discussed on an open forum. I have some numbers you can call for grief counseling.
  • BounineBounine
    edited November 2013 Posts: 2,599
    MayDayDiVicenzo wrote:
    Bounine wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    SaintMark wrote:
    A great article, now less sure than ever if Fleming was a leftie or rightie.

    And could not care less since I enjoy his writing on 007.

    This is why I mentioned Burgess, who had the same agent as Fleming and was politically all over the map.
    Bounine wrote:
    If Fleming was referring to the fact that Commonwealth citizens should be welcome to live in the UK and UK citizens should be able to reside in other Commonwealth countries for as long as they want then I'm all for it. With the advent of the EU, the UK has pretty much turned their backs on the Commonwealth.

    Tell me about it. I am Canadian and married a British woman and had to go through so many loops to immigrate in the UK, while someone from a EU country can come here and is entitled to work without knowing much if any English.

    Yeah, it's rubbish. The Commonwealth countries might as well become independent republics as it means very little anymore.

    I wonder what Fleming would make of the EU.

    Interesting thought. I'm half inclined to say that he would despise anything to do with it. But, as people have said, Fleming was very 'shadowy' when it came to his political direction.

    I've been thinking the same thing but like you I'm only 50/50 on the matter.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Trish wrote:
    DNA_Imbroglio I miscarried a child you might be able to help. PM me please. The stress of it is all too much and unbearable.

    My van has been vandalised.


    DNA_Imbroglio wrote:
    Trish, that is horrible. I shall PM you at once but perhaps this should not be discussed on an open forum. I have some numbers you can call for grief counseling.

    I trust people are IFMing this pair?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Trolls are not to be fed please.
    IFM people
    I'll alert the admin to the issue.
    Thanks for your assistance. :-bd
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    After all, [Fleming] was a racist.
    I see no hint that Fleming was a racist in this text. Don't enroll people post-mortem because you don't succeed when they can answer :)


  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Suivez_ce_parachute wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    After all, [Fleming] was a racist.
    I see no hint that Fleming was a racist in this text. Don't enroll people post-mortem because you don't succeed when they can answer :)


    Huh? Or, as I believe your ilk might put it, WTF?

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,124
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Yes, Trish, Fleming seems not to have thought this out very well. On the one hand, he claims to despise high taxation; on the other he wishes to arrogate to government all sorts of powers and expensive projects. Either Fleming didn't really give much thought to formal politics and policies (possible, he claims to be an apolitical animal), or he merely dashed the article off at a moment's notice (also possible). But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.

    Well, a man who votes, or even only claims to vote for Tories because of their bottom is clearly not very political. Maybe Fleming's aversion to taxes was more personal than ideologically motivated. I mentioned Anthony Burgess, who had taxes in horror too, as writers were at the time highly taxed for the result of their work.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Ludovico wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    Yes, Trish, Fleming seems not to have thought this out very well. On the one hand, he claims to despise high taxation; on the other he wishes to arrogate to government all sorts of powers and expensive projects. Either Fleming didn't really give much thought to formal politics and policies (possible, he claims to be an apolitical animal), or he merely dashed the article off at a moment's notice (also possible). But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.

    Well, a man who votes, or even only claims to vote for Tories because of their bottom is clearly not very political. Maybe Fleming's aversion to taxes was more personal than ideologically motivated. I mentioned Anthony Burgess, who had taxes in horror too, as writers were at the time highly taxed for the result of their work.

    So were musicians. That's what inspired George to write Tax Man.

  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,918
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.

    I don't see any evidence of that. If anything, Fleming shows more humor in his articles than in his novels. This piece is obviously a light, tongue-in-cheek effort, and hardly meant as a serious political manifesto.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Revelator wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.

    I don't see any evidence of that. If anything, Fleming shows more humor in his articles than in his novels. This piece is obviously a light, tongue-in-cheek effort, and hardly meant as a serious political manifesto.

    I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to, @Revelator. A very interesting piece and thank you for sharing it -- but I think the only bit that reveals Fleming's true political attitude is the introduction. The rest of it is satire, and only the humor-impaired will fail to note that. Some of us are a little too intent on making Fleming the champion of our own political convictions. The rest of us are just here for some fun -- and to share our enjoyment of the work of a brilliant author, as well as those who have followed in his footsteps.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Revelator wrote:
    Perilagu_Khan wrote:
    But at any rate, I've always fancied Fleming's fiction far above his journalism and editorializing. I think his prose falters and becomes rather stilted when he ventures outside of fiction.

    I don't see any evidence of that. If anything, Fleming shows more humor in his articles than in his novels. This piece is obviously a light, tongue-in-cheek effort, and hardly meant as a serious political manifesto.

    1. Humor doesn't come into my critique. I criticized his journalistic prose.

    2. I already suggested that this piece doesn't look like a "serious political manifesto."

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