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I think the frantic editing leaves a mark on how one remembers a movie. QoS is a comic strip for me, the others are movies.
I think Casino Royale's editing is far better than the quick cutting of Quantum Of Solace. With Anwar on baord for Bond 23 it should be sublime perhaps the best since Hunt's time, just look at the crew he has to back him up if something happened. Action and all else should be easy to follow again as we sweep these past two films under the rug.
But what I will do is highlight my key points in order to keep this fantastic discussion going:
All Bond movies, with all their unique characteristics, are critiqued in two different ways. The first being as a Bond film, the second as a standalone film. As a Bond film, Quantum lacks some of the more "trademarked" details of the Bond franchise. However it still holds the Bond name well, what with the action, the acting, the scenery and locations, and of course, the women. As a Bond film, yes it is lacking, and I would give it a 3/5 stars as far as Bond films go. It still is VERY entertaining, has a brilliant plot, mesmerizing action, and Craig still carries the Bond "mojo" relatively obviously, though it is unfortunately lacking in this reboot overall.
Now to look at QoS in its second light, a standalone film. Where Quantum comes into its true beauty is the action. Oh, what an action movie it is. A great plot with great locations for Bond to tear through, and great lead (Craig, of course) and for the most part (some bad cgi aside) some VERY good stunt work and action sequences. Quantum was created to compete with modern action and spy movies of the modern times, like Bourne and Hunt. And it knocks them out of the park.
The opening car chase is one of the best (imo) in cinema history of recent date, which I will be glad to defend if anyone dares challenge, along with tense action scenes, a relatively good boat chase, a good flight chase (besides the ending of it), and still carries a sense of style and smoothness that all other (non-Bond) films lack. Instead of offering pockets of action in order to fit in story line, QoS is able to incorporate them together, creating a non-stop action movie that is still plot-focused. The action makes sense, and is more offense rather than the defense you see with Bond's competing Hollywood goons. Overall, as a standalone film, I'd give QoS a good 4/5, lacking with some bad effects and iffy moments that drag down any great film.
It may not be all Bond, but it definitely beats Bourne and Hunt.
The biggest problem that I have with the film is that Forster came up with ideas that *sounded* good but added nothing to the audience experience. Having fight scenes based around the four elements? Umm, interesting idea but doesn't add to the film in any way. Edit the action films so they are confusing in the beginning but more clear later in the film, so the audience experiences "Bond's confusion" about what is happening and also his gradual understanding as the plot develops? Sounds good in a film course in school...Having the Aston torn apart so that Bond is exposed without any protection from the bullet-proof glass or panels? Great idea, but how was it set up that Bond was untouchable in the car in the beginning? (answer: it wasn't)
I still like QoS but Foster made choices based on himself, not what was best for the audience's enjoyment (or, if he did, he wasn't able to bring them off). As I keep saying, I'd love to see a "non-director's cut" if enough footage exists to make one.
The World Is Not Enough - Are you having me on ?
Tomorrow Never Dies - once again, you may well be right
Diamonds - Yes, can see where you're coming from
Golden Gun - Never in a million years
I'll be honest and say I haven't seen it in it's entireity since it's release in late 2008, simply because I never really wanted to. Said so before I remember vividly my frustration and disappointment when leaving theater that day and saying 'never again'
Maybe I've been too hard on it since then, but make no mistake about it, the general consensus is such is that it's recognized by most as one of the very worst of the entire franchise. Fully justified maybe
The last 2/3 of the film. Once we get past the assassination of Slate and the introduction of Camille (and her unwanted rescue), the movie becomes pure Bond.
He chases Greene to Austria, and pulls off one of the best Bond moments in the franchise history. He infiltrates the Quantum meeting, listens to their plan, and then forces them to reveal themselves. There is a subtle, but entertaining shootout between Bond and Greene's henchmen, with far superior editing, and a beautiful score that makes up for the opening of the film. The sequence ends with a cold Bond, who lets the Special Branch agent fall off the roof after providing no information.
The editing during the opera sequence, and the following film is completely different from the beginning of the film. Its almost as if they're part of two different films.
From this point on, Bond goes 'rogue' and gets Mathis to aid him in his hunt for Greene in South America. Mathis, and Giannini's portrayal of him add weight to the story and the film. Bond drags Fields along with him as she tries to stop him. He reaches another great Bond moment with the changing of the hotels, and the 'teachers on sabbatical' line embeds Craig in Bond's character.
Then we move to the party sequence, which is really to add depth to Greene and introduce the Police Chief.
Mathis' demise is possibly the most emotional part of the film, and rivals Vesper's death from the previous film. Now there is not only a vendetta for her, but for Mathis as well.
The plane sequence isn't terrible, but feels unnecessary. Yet, the editing is improved again, and the parachute landing is supposed to prove to us Bond's 'luck'.
Bond discover's Greene's plan (albeit by accident, which is frustrating for us fans, but there you go) and sets out to stop him.
Then we get the homage to Goldfinger with the oil, which I like better than gold plating (there's an opinion to defend). Bond takes out 4 guards in the elevator, and stealthily navigates the hotel to confront M. This is possibly Arnold's best moment as composer for Bond, his music fitting perfectly, and adding a 'swagger' to the moment.
He escapes and sets out to stop Greene.
The hotel climax, again, has far superior editing. The garage bombardment is Craig action at its finest, and Camille holds her own as well. The fire 'dance' between Greene and Bond is very artsy, and enjoyable. The cinematography and stunts are mesmerizing, and its quickly, but timely over with. Bond saves the girl (as usual) from the fire, and leaves Greene hopeless in the desert after plucking him for information.
The end of the film shows Bond nearly as we know him. He's got more than one girl under his belt, he's matured, he's avenged his fellow friends and his love, and he's ready to move on. He's got the pep in his step we've come to know and love with the added humor to the film, and we see a 'smooth' Bond throughout the later action sequences.
Its my favorite because the film matures along with its main characters. It has my favorite sequence of any Bond film (that's not a PTS) in the Opera sequence, and overall has very good elements to a good film.
I feel the majority of judgments on this film are made in the first 30 minutes, unfortunately. The rest of the film is quite comparable to Casino.
Your argument isn't very valid considering you haven't even seen the thing more than once over a 4 year period. Put it in again and see what you think. And you pointed out one of the biggest reasons why QoS gets so much flack: general consensus. Just because an average group doesn't like the film doesn't mean the film is bad, not at all. Why listen to the general consensus and form your own opinion? An opinion made after you've seen the film again, because as of right now your view is tripe.
Agreed. Once you've viewed it more than once, you notice just how good it gets towards the finale. See my comment above for details, but Bond matures just as much as the film does. Nothing is ever bad because everyone says so.
When are people going to learn just how misleading first impressions are.
Im serious as a heart-attack. Not only do I think it's better than those five, I also rank it ahead of AVTAK, MR, YOLT and a few others. Simply it's on the top half of the Bond series for me. I'd rank it around 11, maybe 12, out of 22.
And I'll have to diagree with you about the general censensus being that it's one of the worst in the series. Just because you think so doesn't make it so. QOS got mixed reviews not bad ones. And yes it does have it's share of fans. It was still better recieved than most of Brosnan's and Moore's films. If you don't believe me do some research. With all due respect ofcourse.
Its good to see its fans come out.
This was my hope when I started this thread, and despite a few hang ups I am very happy with the continuing results. I am optimistic that through time people will see QoS for what it truly is: a great Bond film! Of course there are issues, one can say that about any film, especially in the Bond films. The rating of the common consensus amongst filmgoers and reviewers alike must not be used as leverage anymore. It is important to take it into effect and to acknowledge its statistical value, but do not base your own personal opinion upon it.
I agree. I've said before and I'll say it again I believe QOS is on the better half of the Bond films and my second favorite post Cubby-era film behind CR and ahead of GE, TND, TWINE, and DAD. It's a glimpse of what DAF should have been. And for that Im grateful of it's existence.
QoS didnt quite have the bad critical reaction of 1969 but its reception has been a mixed bag. Some cant get over the editing which on the big screen nearly took your eyeballs out but seems to work fine on the small screen and lack of humour. The Craig Bonds arent about humour. And considering how the humour was sometimes mismanaged in the Moore and Brosnan era its something I can live without.
What I cannot understand is the complaint that they cannot follow the story. I thought it was easy to understand. Perhaps they didnt like the geopolitics in there. The way nothing is black and white. America is a protagonist along with Quantum and Greene. But superpowers do meddle in the third world for their own gain. Fleming highlighted that occasionally in his books.
I tend to think QoS is for the more discerning Bond fan. The one which wants more meat on its bones.
The hotel fight scene is very good too.
For all the faults QoS has, there are still some very good moments in the film.
locations: Wish I could actually have seen something in those locations. We mostly see an airport, then cut to a studio setting.
action: There's hardly any action in this film. There's only the vaguest suggestion of action through the hyperkinetic editing and shooting. The car chase in the PTS would have William Friedkin and Sam Peckinpah burst out in laughter.
score: Agreed. Possibly one of Arnold's better scores, though hardly on the level of John Barry (which of course is only fair to say cannot be reached anymore - period.)
acting: From a lot of folks, yes. But the "get-in!" girl acts from the pages of an acting 101 manual. That said, I particularly like the acting behind Bond, Greene, Beam, Leiter, Medrano and Mathis. There's rumours about a certain 'Fields' character in the film as well, but somehow I've never managed to spot her... Must have blinked each time.
That's a little bit unfair don't you think? It is possible that people who disliked QoS still enjoyed other more serious adventures like OHMSS, TLD, FRWL and CR.
Great example Graham Rye:
http://www.britflicks.com/Lists/Film News/DispForm.aspx?ID=239
Personally if I wanted an "adult Bond" I'd go for the above films first (at least they're a bit more complete) but I'm not going to start an argument.
There is no meat on the bones of QOS ! It's devoid of any Bondness. When I want meat on the bones I watch DAF, FRWL, TB or TMWTGG.
I found the Sienna and Haiti exterior shots nice. Also the Bond-and-Camille-walking-out-of-the-desert shots.
I hope I'm not sounding too negative but to me, that moment felt like an in-your-face fund raising add for charity.
I did like the music in the scene. (*)