The weakness that becomes an asset

edited October 2013 in Bond Movies Posts: 15,125
What were, in your opinion, the weakness of a particular Bond movie that on the long run became an asset to it? This could because it gives the movie some charm or whatever reason. A dodgy special effect, or a limited actor, or whatever...

I will give an example that always struck me: the low budget of Dr. No. It forced it to have a rushed ending, truncate a good part of the novel, but the movie would have been too long otherwise and I don't think they would have made a believable squid unless they had hired Ray Harryhausen. It also made them put the emphasis on suspense.

Comments

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Surely Laz for Sean in OHMSS.

    If some legal loophole or wad of cash had been found to force Sean to stay in for one more picture I can't help but feel his disenchantment could well have ruined the film.

    You may not like Laz but I don't think there's anyone who could argue that the Sean of 1968 would have delivered a good performance at all.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Yes, this is maybe the most obvious one, although it didn't look like it at the time. In fact, Lazenby's casting, while an asset to the quality of the film, was a liability to its success for a few years.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited October 2013 Posts: 6,304
    Surely Laz for Sean in OHMSS.
    If some legal loophole or wad of cash had been found to force Sean to stay in for one more picture I can't help but feel his disenchantment could well have ruined the film.

    You may not like Laz but I don't think there's anyone who could argue that the Sean of 1968 would have delivered a good performance at all.

    Agreed. Plus, OHMSS is a unique story that benefits from Lazenby being a one-and-done Bond.

    A close second is the loss of legal rights to CR until 2006. With any other actor playing Bond, it would have been a weaker film (and the studio may have added on a happy ending, for fear of another OHMSS box office disappointment).

  • Posts: 15,125
    Losing the rights of CR was not a shortcoming of any particular movie though.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I think the comedic aspect of Moore's tenure, which was hit and miss overall and is often criticized, worked really well in OP to bring genuine suspense to the bomb scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think the comedic aspect of Moore's tenure, which was hit and miss overall and is often criticized, worked really well in OP to bring genuine suspense to the bomb scene.
    I agree completely, but so many hate that scene... like Bond wouldn't don a clown costume to get a job done...
    :-??
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think the comedic aspect of Moore's tenure, which was hit and miss overall and is often criticized, worked really well in OP to bring genuine suspense to the bomb scene.
    I agree completely, but so many hate that scene... like Bond wouldn't don a clown costume to get a job done...
    :-??

    I love that scene! Maud Adams' look of horror when she blows the doors off to reveal the bomb. Classic.
  • To me one example, that hasn't already been mentioned, is the violence in License to Kill. At the time of it's release that was one of the reasons attributed to it's lower box office gross. But over time I feel it has done LTK many favors. It's made LTK stand out as a unique entry in the series. To this day Dalton's second outing is regarded as "the violent Bond film". That helps generate curiosity. Plus after years of lighthearted and mostly family-friendly Roger Moore Bond films it was very refreshing to see Bond cut loose and get that nasty edge he had back in the early Connery films. At the time it might've felt a little jarring but as of now alot of fans, myself included, wouldn't take LTK any other way.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    To me one example, that hasn't already been mentioned, is the violence in License to Kill. At the time of it's release that was one of the reasons attributed to it's lower box office gross. But over time I feel it has done LTK many favors. It's made LTK stand out as a unique entry in the series. To this day Dalton's second outing is regarded as "the violent Bond film". That helps generate curiosity. Plus after years of lighthearted and mostly family-friendly Roger Moore Bond films it was very refreshing to see Bond cut loose and get that nasty edge he had back in the early Connery films. At the time it might've felt a little jarring but as of now alot of fans, myself included, wouldn't take LTK any other way.

    The great thing about the violence in LTK is that it is not overdone or used unnecessarily, which is the short fall of many action movies. Instead, the violence is expertly directed and very entertaining. I particularly like Milton Krest's demise, because it just shows you how brutal Sanchez can be. LTK makes it into my top 5, a suberb release.
  • To me one example, that hasn't already been mentioned, is the violence in License to Kill. At the time of it's release that was one of the reasons attributed to it's lower box office gross. But over time I feel it has done LTK many favors. It's made LTK stand out as a unique entry in the series. To this day Dalton's second outing is regarded as "the violent Bond film". That helps generate curiosity. Plus after years of lighthearted and mostly family-friendly Roger Moore Bond films it was very refreshing to see Bond cut loose and get that nasty edge he had back in the early Connery films. At the time it might've felt a little jarring but as of now alot of fans, myself included, wouldn't take LTK any other way.

    The great thing about the violence in LTK is that it is not overdone or used unnecessarily, which is the short fall of many action movies. Instead, the violence is expertly directed and very entertaining. I particularly like Milton Krest's demise, because it just shows you how brutal Sanchez can be. LTK makes it into my top 5, a suberb release.

    It's defiantly on my top 5 or 6 too. Of all the Bond films LTK, maybe more than any other, has developed a bit of a cult following. Once considered one of the worst entries in the series, it's stock has gone up considerably in the near 25 years since its release.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Something that struck me: the B movie feel of LALD. It looked much cheaper than most of its predcecessor (maybe even DN), the plot is much more low-key, it really belongs to a B movie... Yet it kind of work and it gives LALD, a flawed Bond movie if there ever was one, its charm. I don't consider LALD a great Bond or a great movie by any stretch of the imagination, it is far from my favourite, yet its low budget feel really works, or at least makes me enjoy it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Surely Laz for Sean in OHMSS.

    If some legal loophole or wad of cash had been found to force Sean to stay in for one more picture I can't help but feel his disenchantment could well have ruined the film.

    You may not like Laz but I don't think there's anyone who could argue that the Sean of 1968 would have delivered a good performance at all.

    I must agree with Wiz here. An OHMSS adaptation with Connery and probably Pleasence back as well would change the dynamics between Bond and Blofeld, too. Would be hard to disregard the previous film if that were the case, and the result would have been less faithful to Fleming, almost certainly. Sure, Lazenby was no Connery, but neither was Connery at that moment in time.
  • Posts: 15,125
    Something else that struck me: the inexperience and relative uneasiness of Pierce Brosnan in the role of Bond in GE. He gained confidence in TND, but it lightened the tone considerably, while his uneasiness in GE gave him a low profile that fitted the movie very well.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @Ludovico, very good observation. I will agree to a point there!
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    edited April 2014 Posts: 2,629
    DAD. It forced a reboot of the series which was badly needed.


    I also agree that Sean in OHMSS would have been worse than it turned out to be.
  • OHMSS LTK QOS much better on second look than most Bond movies on first. Usually the films following a weak-on-first-sight will make more money. IMO, it's that time in between Bond movie releases when the fan base becomes stronger because the series picks up new fans of good films instead of ones that follow that predictable Bond formula.
  • Posts: 5,745
    The carry-over continuation plot of Quantum of Solace.

    Without continuing essentially right where Casino Royale left off, we would not have gotten a Bond release in 2008, and likely not again until 2012 due to the MGM bankruptcy. A six year gap between Casino Royale and Craig's second film would have been detrimental to his tenure, and to the series as a whole. Who knows if he would have stayed on.

    Following directly to Casino Royale's set up also made the 'writing' of the film much easier for the producers, director, and actors due to the writers strike. Being able to essentially just finish a story set up by somebody else meant the team didn't necessarily need writers to fulfill the plot.

    While the resulting Quantum of Solace is pretty 50/50, if not 40/60 among fans, it's political themes (included thanks to Marc Forster) are still highly relevant six years later, it's action (while honestly a bit frantic for a Bond film) still holds up to those of rival franchises enough, and its emotional themes still carry on in Skyfall and Craig's future Bond films.

    It's not a great Bond film, but its a mediocre outing by a mediocre team with mediocre reviews created under impossible circumstances. Ultimately: success.

    In my book, at least.

  • edited April 2014 Posts: 28
    Grace Jones as May Day made a view to a kill downright supernatural.

  • Posts: 15,125
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    The carry-over continuation plot of Quantum of Solace.

    Without continuing essentially right where Casino Royale left off, we would not have gotten a Bond release in 2008, and likely not again until 2012 due to the MGM bankruptcy. A six year gap between Casino Royale and Craig's second film would have been detrimental to his tenure, and to the series as a whole. Who knows if he would have stayed on.

    Following directly to Casino Royale's set up also made the 'writing' of the film much easier for the producers, director, and actors due to the writers strike. Being able to essentially just finish a story set up by somebody else meant the team didn't necessarily need writers to fulfill the plot.

    While the resulting Quantum of Solace is pretty 50/50, if not 40/60 among fans, it's political themes (included thanks to Marc Forster) are still highly relevant six years later, it's action (while honestly a bit frantic for a Bond film) still holds up to those of rival franchises enough, and its emotional themes still carry on in Skyfall and Craig's future Bond films.

    It's not a great Bond film, but its a mediocre outing by a mediocre team with mediocre reviews created under impossible circumstances. Ultimately: success.

    In my book, at least.

    I never thought about it like that but you are right.

  • Posts: 5,745
    Ludovico wrote:
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    The carry-over continuation plot of Quantum of Solace.

    Without continuing essentially right where Casino Royale left off, we would not have gotten a Bond release in 2008, and likely not again until 2012 due to the MGM bankruptcy. A six year gap between Casino Royale and Craig's second film would have been detrimental to his tenure, and to the series as a whole. Who knows if he would have stayed on.

    Following directly to Casino Royale's set up also made the 'writing' of the film much easier for the producers, director, and actors due to the writers strike. Being able to essentially just finish a story set up by somebody else meant the team didn't necessarily need writers to fulfill the plot.

    While the resulting Quantum of Solace is pretty 50/50, if not 40/60 among fans, it's political themes (included thanks to Marc Forster) are still highly relevant six years later, it's action (while honestly a bit frantic for a Bond film) still holds up to those of rival franchises enough, and its emotional themes still carry on in Skyfall and Craig's future Bond films.

    It's not a great Bond film, but its a mediocre outing by a mediocre team with mediocre reviews created under impossible circumstances. Ultimately: success.

    In my book, at least.

    I never thought about it like that but you are right.

    It's a very under-appreciated film for many reasons, but keeping the brand alive is a reason we all can appreciate it for.
  • Posts: 1,394
    Kerim wrote:
    DAD. It forced a reboot of the series which was badly needed.


    I also agree that Sean in OHMSS would have been worse than it turned out to be.

    DAD did not force a reboot.That is a misconception.The film was a huge success.Brosnan was asked back for one more film after it but not long after, the rights to CR was secured and the producers decided to go and do that instead.

    I also disagree about Sean in OHMSS would have resulted in a poorer film.I think the material and Hunts direction would have made Connery put a lot of effort into this one and it would have been a perfect conclusion to his run.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited April 2014 Posts: 12,480
    I agree with all of thoughts here, AstonLotus.

    At one point, Judi was saying that it would be Casino Royale with Pierce; and I remember thinking, well Pierce cannot do that particular story really ... and it all changed. I am happy we got Craig and the CR we got, yes. But I will always wish that Pierce went out with a much better final film.

    I think Sean in OHMSS would have been awesome. He could have upped his game, had passion for that particular story and worked well with that director and sublime supporting cast, yes. It is a shame that did not happen. Other things took over (lack of respect, money, how the producers treated him.)
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