Is Skyfall losing its gloss and appeal ?

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  • Posts: 908
    chrisisall wrote: »
    M said it herself! To many peole is dying because of her, that's why Bond takes her to Skyfall.
    That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Too many people were dying because of Silva. And the silly script. But, silly sells, hence the big box office, Silly also sold with MR & DAD.

    Well, MR is my favourite and SF is my second favourite so maybe I'm all for the "silly" ones! Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Vain dumbness is more like it and I really don't know,which of the both angers me more!
  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    Posts: 127
    Personally what I've always considered one of the 'success'-factors of SF was the monstrous marketing machine behind the film. It looked like the sponsors wanted to get along for the '50-years-of-Bond'-ride, pretending they have been sponsors for all that time, and launching huge campaigns of their own. Furthermore, I guess you'd have to compliment Barbara Broccoli and Michael G. Wilson for polishing the marketing machine. It seems that they're becoming better at it with each film. That way the Bond production can afford better actors, so I wouldn't complain about it.

    However I feel that SF wasn't the film for most of the die-hard Bond fans, despite DC stating that he wanted a Bond film with a capital B. Sorry if you feel offended if you consider yourself a die-hard Bond fan and you do like it. That wouldn't be my point.

    Personally I just expected a better plot, mainly because of CR. The plot from QoS let me down because of the writers-strike, but the combination of Robert Wade, Neal Purvis and John Logan promised me a lot more. Also, like stated before by other members, the inconsistency of the characters and storyline bothered me.

    Finally, I'm really looking forward to a plain Bond film that sends him away on a mission spying, seducing and shooting his way to the villain and catches him. And with plain I mean not again dozens of prominent MI6 figures in the field, just Bond on his own, and not again some kind of betrayal. That last theme has been going on for too long and is really getting old:
    - Elektra in TWINE
    - Miranda Frost in DAD
    - Vesper in CR
    - Gregg Beam, the CIA-guy in QoS
    - Silva in SF

    But I'm getting off topic. To answer the OP: due to heavy marketing and Bond's 50th anniversary, audiences around the globe went wild about SF. Adele and Roger Deakins did a great job in their respective fields, so it looked fantastic and theme song sounded good as well. But now that this storm of enthusiasm has calmed down, some die-hard Bond fans take over. Apparently they do not find it convincing enough do consider it to be as good as the buzz around the film led one believe it was when it came out.
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    I remember in TB Q says:

    "I find this business of equipping you in the field...on the run as it were...highly irregular"

    What made him soften up to Bond by LTK? :))

    Octopussy happened. After a little TLC from Magda, Q began to see the wisdom of Bond's methods...
  • Posts: 11,425
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    That's called nit-picking.

    DUMB is when you are riding a fake CG wave or watching a pigeon double-taking.

    I don't think odd, questionable choices like that are simple nit-picking. Both of those decisions didn't make sense and seem out of character for characters who almost always seemed so certain that they know what they're doing.

    Totally agree - and it was the dumb decision making by Bond, MP and the rest of MI6 that was one of the most annoying things about the film for me. I received a fairly royal slating on these pages for daring to criticise SF when it came out, but all the same failings still apply and only become more noticeable over time. Interesting to see the evolving attitudes to SF on here.

    Having said that, I do not and never have believed it's the worst Bond film. May be the worst Craig Bond, but not the worst Bond by any means (any of the Brosnan films is worse). CR is an infinitely better film on almost every level. And I also personally much prefer QoS to SF.
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)

    Well, I'm in shock... ;)

    It's a very silly film masquerading as a serious one. Lots of portentious moody cinematography and a bedragled looking Bond does not make it an art house materpiece if the underlying plot and much of the script would have been rejected by any half decent prime time US TV series.

    Could and should have been a lot better. But it did at least try and do something different. Unforunately it just didn't do it very well.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 654
    Matt_Helm wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    M said it herself! To many peole is dying because of her, that's why Bond takes her to Skyfall.
    That's a bunch of contrived nonsense. Too many people were dying because of Silva. And the silly script. But, silly sells, hence the big box office, Silly also sold with MR & DAD.

    Well, MR is my favourite and SF is my second favourite so maybe I'm all for the "silly" ones! Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Vain dumbness is more like it and I really don't know,which of the both angers me more!

    I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's my opinion, and I stand for it. If you have problem with that, keep it to yourself. :)>-
  • Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)

    Well, I'm in shock... ;)

    It's a very silly film masquerading as a serious one. Lots of portentious moody cinematography and a bedragled looking Bond does not make it an art house materpiece if the underlying plot and much of the script would have been rejected by any half decent prime time US TV series.

    Could and should have been a lot better. But it did at least try and do something different. Unforunately it just didn't do it very well.

    Not according to you at least.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)

    Well, I'm in shock... ;)

    It's a very silly film masquerading as a serious one.

    With respect wasnt that the approach of the novels quite a lot of the time? Have the most ridiculous scenarios but tell them in a straight faced way.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    @BAIN123, point taken.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 2,015
    Getafix wrote: »
    I received a fairly royal slating on these pages for daring to criticise SF when it came out, but all the same failings still apply and only become more noticeable over time. Interesting to see the evolving attitudes to SF on here.

    I think the attitude towards SF will depend a lot of what comes next (Bond 24 and after). We all judge by comparing to the other stuff, in the end...

    I mean, FYEO is the "serious Roger" one. And yet, in it he's driving a 2CV doing stunts straight from a Louis de Funes movie (and in the French dubbing he's saying one the most risqué line :) ). But it's between MR and OP.

  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Do you really think that SF is silly?! :-O

    Pretty much. ;;)

    Well, I'm in shock... ;)

    It's a very silly film masquerading as a serious one.

    With respect wasnt that the approach of the novels quite a lot of the time? Have the most ridiculous scenarios but tell them in a straight faced way.

    Good point. And on the whole I am not averse to a slightly OTT plot, if it's done well. As you say, this is a defining characteristic of some of the novels and one of the things that makes particularly the early films so great. I just think it wasn't done well in SF. The quality of the plot (which admitedly attempts to emulate some of the original Fleming campness) is just so flimsy that it collapses un
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I love the way some people post their opinion as it's gospel, I bet BB & MGW are having a good cry at Getafix's constant bitching about SF and can't believe they made such a terrible film.

    We get the picture you weren't a fan can you move on, whenever I come in this thread it's you going on about your opinion of SF like it's gospel. Not quite as bad as Matt Helm though his post to fromswedenislove calling him vain and dumb because he has SF as his no. 2 is plain rude.

    SF is my no. 2 with OHMSS at no. 1 am I vain and dumb as well.

    Some peoples opinions aren't stated as opinions but as fact and the rest of us are idiots for liking or even loving SF.

    It seems though the more successful an entry is the more likely it will be the whipping boy for the fan base, seriously there is some real crap in the series and SF is far from that but because some here pretty much are utterly abhor it's success it's has slated as DAD these days.

    Its the same old people debating over it giving each other hand shandies in how clever they can deconstruct the most recent entry down to the point that it might as well be worst film made in the last 5 years if you believe the out right arrogant opinionated outpourings of the Skyfall hate brigade and please don't say you don't hate it because some of you can't but stay out of this thread, it's like catnip to some of you.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    SF was, for me, the GE of the 2000's so far. I hope i don't cause controversy with this, but I found both movies insanely fun and more proper 'larger-than-life' outings the other post-Dalton films. I admit CR is probably the better made movie, but man, it's a 2-hours blast when I rewatch GE or SF :D
  • Shardlake wrote: »
    We get the picture you weren't a fan can you move on, whenever I come in this thread it's you going on about your opinion of SF like it's gospel.

    I agree that it's tiring but to be fair he's been doing the same with the Brosnan films for even longer and I didn't see you complaining then.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I love the way some people post their opinion as it's gospel, I bet BB & MGW are having a good cry at Getafix's constant bitching about SF and can't believe they made such a terrible film.

    We get the picture you weren't a fan can you move on, whenever I come in this thread it's you going on about your opinion of SF like it's gospel. Not quite as bad as Matt Helm though his post to fromswedenislove calling him vain and dumb because he has SF as his no. 2 is plain rude.

    SF is my no. 2 with OHMSS at no. 1 am I vain and dumb as well.

    Some peoples opinions aren't stated as opinions but as fact and the rest of us are idiots for liking or even loving SF.

    It seems though the more successful an entry is the more likely it will be the whipping boy for the fan base, seriously there is some real crap in the series and SF is far from that but because some here pretty much are utterly abhor it's success it's has slated as DAD these days.

    Its the same old people debating over it giving each other hand shandies in how clever they can deconstruct the most recent entry down to the point that it might as well be worst film made in the last 5 years if you believe the out right arrogant opinionated outpourings of the Skyfall hate brigade and please don't say you don't hate it because some of you can't but stay out of this thread, it's like catnip to some of you.

    @Shardlake, I'm a little surprised that you seem so taken aback at the views expressed here - the title of the thread should be a bit of a giveaway.

    I don't expect people to agree with me. And I get a bit bored of all the constant 'IMO's people feel obliged to put in just to avoid offending members who find other's strongly held views a problem. Of course what I say is my opinion. Of course it's not 'gospel'. It's an online community with members posting whatever they happen to be thinking at that moment.

    And yes, I did find SF really disappointing but I've never said it's the worst. What I found absurd was when it first came out and everyone was jumping on the marketing bandwagon and the nonsense about 'best Bond ever'. It's a mid ranking Bond movie with a lot of flaws. I don't mind if people like it, but the hyperbolic overreaction when it first came out was just crazy.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's a mid ranking Bond movie with a lot of flaws. I don't mind if people like it, but the hyperbolic overreaction when it first came out was just crazy.

    I agree.
    My opinion of it hasn't changed much from my first viewing.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    It's a mid ranking Bond movie with a lot of flaws. I don't mind if people like it, but the hyperbolic overreaction when it first came out was just crazy.

    I agree.
    My opinion of it hasn't changed much from my first viewing.

    Seconded. I don't hate it, nor do I find it to be the worst Bond film (by far), but it's definitely mid-ranking for me (if I did a ranking), and it's most certainly my least favorite Craig film.

    Also, as @Getafix has stated, the thread title is a dead giveaway at what to expect. Just because some of us don't hold SF up as being the greatest film of all time, we are denied an opinion on it?

    It's now getting a bit extreme. If we continue to be at one another's throats, then all this will do is lead to name-calling and bashing of one another, which will inevitably result in having the thread closed. Let's keep a SF thread open where both parties are allowed to agree to disagree and hash out what we think of the film now that the 'new Bond' hype has died down, please.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    When people are particularly fond of a Bond film that's not liked by others they have a tendency to get defensive because its something that meant a lot to THEM and gave them a pleasurable viewing experience. They see the good before the bad. I do it quite a lot with Goldeneye/Pierce Brosnan as Bond and it upsets me a bit to see either one of those two ripped to pieces. However I suppose the same applies to fans of the other films - including Skyfall.

    I've said this before but I think SF is still excellent despite its flaws in the plot. Its well produced and, above all, WELL ACTED.
  • Posts: 908
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I love the way some people post their opinion as it's gospel, I bet BB & MGW are having a good cry at Getafix's constant bitching about SF and can't believe they made such a terrible film.

    We get the picture you weren't a fan can you move on, whenever I come in this thread it's you going on about your opinion of SF like it's gospel. Not quite as bad as Matt Helm though his post to fromswedenislove calling him vain and dumb because he has SF as his no. 2 is plain rude.

    SF is my no. 2 with OHMSS at no. 1 am I vain and dumb as well.

    Some peoples opinions aren't stated as opinions but as fact and the rest of us are idiots for liking or even loving SF.

    It seems though the more successful an entry is the more likely it will be the whipping boy for the fan base, seriously there is some real crap in the series and SF is far from that but because some here pretty much are utterly abhor it's success it's has slated as DAD these days.

    Its the same old people debating over it giving each other hand shandies in how clever they can deconstruct the most recent entry down to the point that it might as well be worst film made in the last 5 years if you believe the out right arrogant opinionated outpourings of the Skyfall hate brigade and please don't say you don't hate it because some of you can't but stay out of this thread, it's like catnip to some of you.

    Reading, let alone comprehending doesn't seem to be one of your strong traits. My post clearly aimed at Fromswedenwithloves question if SF is silly. To assume I accused him of being dumb and vain is completely ridiculous.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I love the way some people post their opinion as it's gospel, I bet BB & MGW are having a good cry at Getafix's constant bitching about SF and can't believe they made such a terrible film.

    We get the picture you weren't a fan can you move on, whenever I come in this thread it's you going on about your opinion of SF like it's gospel. Not quite as bad as Matt Helm though his post to fromswedenislove calling him vain and dumb because he has SF as his no. 2 is plain rude.

    SF is my no. 2 with OHMSS at no. 1 am I vain and dumb as well.

    Some peoples opinions aren't stated as opinions but as fact and the rest of us are idiots for liking or even loving SF.

    It seems though the more successful an entry is the more likely it will be the whipping boy for the fan base, seriously there is some real crap in the series and SF is far from that but because some here pretty much are utterly abhor it's success it's has slated as DAD these days.

    Its the same old people debating over it giving each other hand shandies in how clever they can deconstruct the most recent entry down to the point that it might as well be worst film made in the last 5 years if you believe the out right arrogant opinionated outpourings of the Skyfall hate brigade and please don't say you don't hate it because some of you can't but stay out of this thread, it's like catnip to some of you.

    This. :)

    And also: Yes, a die hard long time Bond fan can dislike Skyfall. I respect that people have varying opinions of ANY film. And a die hard long time Bond fan can love Skyfall. Like me.
    It is the attitude and consistent pushiness of opinion, let alone the sometimes name calling (what grade are you in?) and stating your view as fact that wears down some threads.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Hold on a second, the more popular a Bond film the more hate it gets? That's news to me.

    I think with SF, it's just utterly bemusing that so many media outlets, fans and critics were/are hailing it as the best Bond ever. Such a statement is a gargantuan one to make and there are umpteen reasons as to why such a statement may be net with aggressive opposition. For starters, SF isn't even Craig's best Bond movie.

    I'm only speaking for myself here but I for one enjoyed SF and think it's a good movie but it's also a rather disappointing movie too. Most if the annoyance comes from the script. They had years to work on it and iron things out, which they claimed to have been doing during the whole MGM restructuring but the script just feels and comes off as half-arsed when you put the events if SF into perspective and context.

    By comparison, with all the adversity QoS faced during it's entire production schedule, they seemed to have done a better job with their script than what was done with SF's.
  • Posts: 1,492
    This business with SF is shocking

    Never before has Bond fandom been so divided. I dont remember it with Connery. With Lazenby? With Moore? With Dalton?

    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    SF was epic. It picked up numerous awards, hit the million dollar mark, broke recordss around the world. Was called on release one of the best. The script is sharp. The acting exemplary. The direction out of this world.

    But this isn't enough.Just as it wasn't with GF

    It comes across as churlishness of the worst kind. Throwing your games in the air if your man isn't the centre of attention.

    Ridiculous!
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote: »
    This business with SF is shocking

    Never before has Bond fandom been so divided. I dont remember it with Connery. With Lazenby? With Moore? With Dalton?

    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    SF was epic. It picked up numerous awards, hit the million dollar mark, broke recordss around the world. Was called on release one of the best. The script is sharp. The acting exemplary. The direction out of this world.

    But this isn't enough.Just as it wasn't with GF

    It comes across as churlishness of the worst kind. Throwing your games in the air if your man isn't the centre of attention.

    Ridiculous!

    Don't look at me I really liked SF :p

    Plus @Getafix is one of the biggest anti-Brosnan people on Mi6 yet is one of the most vocal critics of the film.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    actonsteve wrote: »
    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    Yawn.
  • Posts: 1,492
    RC7 wrote: »
    actonsteve wrote: »
    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    Yawn.


    Its true though

    It might be yawnable to you - but it still holds true
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    actonsteve wrote: »
    This business with SF is shocking

    Never before has Bond fandom been so divided. I dont remember it with Connery. With Lazenby? With Moore? With Dalton?

    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    SF was epic. It picked up numerous awards, hit the million dollar mark, broke recordss around the world. Was called on release one of the best. The script is sharp. The acting exemplary. The direction out of this world.

    But this isn't enough.Just as it wasn't with GF

    It comes across as churlishness of the worst kind. Throwing your games in the air if your man isn't the centre of attention.

    Ridiculous!

    Don't look at me I really liked SF :p

    Plus @Getafix is one of the biggest anti-Brosnan people on Mi6 yet is one of the most vocal critics of the film.

    Getafix hates everything. He hates the Brosnan era. He hates the Craig era

    He just doesn't like anything after LTK

  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I wouldn't say he 'hates' the Craig era. Hate is a strong word that for him can only be applied to Brosnan's films. He just doesn't...love it.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    actonsteve wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    actonsteve wrote: »
    But it seems directed by Brosnan fans.

    Yawn.


    Its true though

    It might be yawnable to you - but it still holds true

    It's not. It's bollocks.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I wouldn't say he 'hates' the Craig era. Hate is a strong word that for him can only be applied to Brosnan's films. He just doesn't...love it.

    Thanks for the covering fire @BAIN123. Indeed, not only was I one of the few who seemed to greet DC's casting with enthusiasm right from the start (definitely Bab's smartest move since taking on her father's mantle), but I am also one of the biggest defenders of QoS on here, so the accussation that I'm simply a hater seems a little wide of the mark. I think @actonsteve is from the Kincade school of marksmanship - he likes using a shotgun approach for maximum, indiscriminate damage on his perceived foes. The fact that I probably agree with him on most major issues apart from SF is no obstacle to him giving me a quick full frontal blast with the sawn off.

    As I've stated countless times to those too hot under the colour to understand that there are gradations of appreciation between love and hate, I don't hate SF - it has good points - but for me personally it was a major disappointment, especially as I thought the momentum after QoS was generally in the right direction. If anything I see SF as a step back towards some of the slightly lazy and cliched plotting and direction of the Brosnan era. The use of the DB5 encapsulates the return of the sentimentalism and cliched backward-looking cruches that I thought had been kicked into touch with CR.

    Still, I see SF as Mendes's personal 'nostalgia' movie and am hopeful that he'll be taking a more forward looking approach with B24.


  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think it's another sweeping statement to suggest that SF's criticisms are coming from it are largely coming from Brosnan fans. I enjoy Brosnan but he ranks either 4th or 5th for me so I'm hardly his biggest fan. Craig ranks number 2 for me with Connery being número uno but that being said, I'm annoyed and frustrated with the way some if the things are panning out with the Craig era. We get some if the best talent the series has ever seen and I feel like things are being squandered. Craig is a brilliant actor, he should be gearing up to do his 5th Bond right now. With all this talent involved, all this time that they have, with all the Fleming material they are yet to mine for ideas, I feel enough isn't being done especially as EoN are dedicated solely to producing Bond movies. The hype machine for SF was phenomenal and all everyone harped on about was how great the script was but that greatness wasn't conveyed on the screen; maybe a lot was left in filmed from the so called amazing script and that the rushed post production had Mendes chopping off some really amazing and sensible footage and leaving it on the editing room floor.

    All I know is, With respect, SF being hailed as best Bond ever seemed like a major knee-jerk reaction and imo for all the good things it does contain, it's the least thrilling overall of the Craig era. All the best action is in the damn PTS!
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