Unused Fleming content - can it be filmed?

edited November 2013 in Literary 007 Posts: 1,894
One of the big requests from fans over the years has been for the films to finally realised the unused content from the original novels, and the big three that people call for are a) the Garden of Death, b) the aborted assassination attempt on M, and c) a straight adaptation of <i>Moonraker</i>. There are other bits and pieces from novels and short stories that have so far been unused, but most people call for those three. This led me to ask the following question: <i>can</i> they actually be filmed? It might be nice to see those scenes played out on the silver screen, but I suspected that some of the content was deliberately left out by EON because it was unfilmable. So with this in mind, I got my hands on copies of <i>You Only Live Twice</i>, <i>The Man with the Golden Gun</i> and <i>Moonraker</i>.

And I have to say, the results weren't good.

Of the three, the failed assassination attempt is probably the only one that can be readily adapted to film. But the Garden of Death and <i>Moonraker</i> have content that makes them very difficult - if not impossible - to use.

First, <i>Moonraker</i>. The biggest problem in adapting it is in the way it is so firmly set in post-War Europe. Large parts of the plot hinge on Drax's motivation as a dedicated Nazi, wanting to seek revenge for the Allied victory over Berlin. By the time BOND 24 comes to be made (assuming it is not used in BOND 23), the Nazis will have been extinct for nearly three-quarters of a century, and thus would not be very convincing villains. And resurgent Nazi groups have been a staple of action films for years. Naturally, the path forward would be to update Drax's character to something more modern - but it's already been done. Their backstories and the finer points of their characters may differ slightly, but Alec Trevalyan was essentially built along the same scaffold: a foreign national who was accepted as a British citizen, but grew to resent them and planned retribution by detonating a nuclear device over London and playing the stock market the day before to make a massive profit.

The second problem with <i>Moonraker</i> is the Moonraker itself. It is heralded as England's saving grace, a missile that can reach any city on the European continent because it is more-advanced than any weapon in the Soviet arsenal. The Moonraker was created early in the Cold War, and is probably best described as an early prototype of an intercontinental ballistic missile. The Moonraker itself would be outdated compared to missiles of today. Therefore, it would be a weak plot device in 2011 and beyond. Even then, it can be re-written slightly; the Moonraker could be a weapon built in 2011 to 1955 plans so that the early-warning detection systems do not recognise it as a missile. All the same, there is a massive challenge in the way <i>Moonraker</i> is firmly rooted in the mid-1950s.

Even if <i>Moonraker</i> can be adapted, <i>You Only Live Twice</i> is even harder. I agree, the Garden of Death is a fantastic location, and would no doubt be the epitome of James Bond locations if it were used. But, like <i>Moonraker</i>, the difficulty of adapting it lies in complications of the plot - complications that might make it impossible to film.

The driving factor of the plot is MI6's desire to gain access to Magic-44. In exchange for a steady stream of intelligence, Tiger Tanaka asks Bond to kill Ernst Stavro Blofeld/Doctor Guntram Shatterhand because he himself cannot. Blofeld has positioned himself as a wealthy and respected botanist, a guest of Japan held in high esteem by the Diet. But his castle grounds are populated by toxic flora and fauna, making it appealing to people who wish to commit suicide. Tanaka cannot act against Blofeld because technically, Blofeld has committed no crime (yes, his guards kill the suicide who thought better of it, but Bond could not prove it if challenged). He is simply studying the toxicology of plants and animals on private property, using his research to aid pharmaceutical developments. The suicides are the ones who break the law, trespassing on castle grounds.

The fact that Tanaka cannot act against Blofeld is not the issue here. His reasons for being unable to act are. The Garden of Death is politically-embarrassing because it encourage suicides. Suicide in Japan is a politically- and socially-sensitive issue; the country currently has the fifth-highest suicide rate in the world. Suicide itself is a very touchy issue, even when handled seriously (in 2002, an independent horror film called <i>Suicide Circle</i> was released, stirring up controversy), and the Bond films are far from serious films. Portraying Japan as a nation were suicide is considered acceptable and even encouraged is very dangerous territory to stray into, even without the general light-heartedness of the Bond films. Because of this, I think it may be incredibly difficult - if not impossible - to adapt the Garden of Death into a film.

So, can the hiterto-unused Fleming material be adapted for a modern film? If not, why not? And if so, how would you update it for 2011?
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Comments

  • edited October 2011 Posts: 1,856
    MR: Drax Could Have ultimate reasons, Ie. Quantum, SPECTER, He Plain Mad Etc., Drax could be the first commercial missile maker. Also Tech updating would be good as it would be more of a threat

    GofD: See your point, I think just keep the location, dump everything else

    PS
    Good Thread Idea
  • edited October 2011 Posts: 5,745
    MR - I can think of so many good period pieces, but none for the modern :/ Like playing with the US and Russia in the Cold War by being the company that manufactures for both, giving Drax the ability to paralyze both military's. You have locals in Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Russia, and the US. It'd be a great Bond flick. But no, that time has passed. ( I got this idea because both militarys had Sikorsky manufacture their helicopters in the Cold War, the Blackhawk is Russian designed :P ) But nothing for a film set in a modern time period.. for now.

    EDIT: He could be the manufacturer for the US and China...

    Garden of Death - What a beautiful name for a movie, if that's not too weird of me to say. You could simply change locals to China, Taiwan, or Vietnam even. China and Vietnam you might still run into issues with, however.
    Or you could change the plot to where he manufactures a highly addictive substance that causes death once a certain amount is consumed, and it is sold in a chain of stores titled "The Garden" ( Its not considered a drug, somehow, for the stories sake ;) ). In this case, the addictive substance would pass all health laws, and then once ingested it reacts with the chemical acidity of the stomach to release slow and small amounts of bleach or some other household product into the body, and once they've purchased and consumed enough, which they will due to the addiction, it eventually builds up and kills them. (Household substance so that it appears to be suicide, like they just ingested what was in their cleaning closet). Still with Blofeld or whoever behind it, with a "lair" being the pharmaceutical facility, and lots of baddies to dispose of. What say you to that?
  • edited October 2011 Posts: 1,817
    I think the kill attempt is doable but it gets too close to Bourne by the fact of the rogue agent. The Moonraker plot is been used; what can be taken from that novel is the visit with M to the Blades Club, I think it would be great.
    For the plot of YOLT, when I read I felt it so fantastic it was almost surreal, and it was great. I will depend on a director of great ability and imagination. However I think it would move away too much from the films formula so its realization is unlikely. But it could be another OHMSS: an unique film with another actor and a special director (and yes, a commercial failure but a fan favorite).
  • Posts: 1,856
    Thats because in the early stages DAD was supposed to be 50% MR, But all that remained was the blades sequence.
  • The Hildebrand Rarity had the central story of a classic murder mystery story of a abusive man, with a slight cliffhanger in that we never know what Bond did to Krest's wife or Barbey. With a little change and creative process, this might be a well rounded story.

    From a View to a Kill's story could also be one nifty title sequence that sets up Bond finding a important Quantum base.

    Dr. No gives Bond a "torture sequence" to test human resistance to pain, etc. that was never really explained well in the film. Could be incorporated into Quantum projects.

    Or a completely radical standpoint is to retell TSWLM in its original way, through the eyes of the bond girl rather than Bond himself - might not be popular with fans or critics alike, but it's one creative way to make a new film.
  • Posts: 1,894
    Ian Fleming banned a straight adaptation of TSWLM. EON have honoured it since, and will no doubt continue to do so.

    As for YOLT, I would probably adapt it to work in the revenge elements of FRWL. Quantum place Magic-44 as a spy in Russia or China or somewhere, and MI6 think it is vital they get access to him. Further information from Magic-44 suggest that there is a private chemical weapons research facility in Japan, and that Snakeheads (people-smuggling gangs) are providing it with victims for experimentation. Bond goes to Japan to take out the Garden of Death on behalf of Tiger Tanaka, but realises the whole thing is a set-up - it's a trap. He destroys the garden and flees, be gets amnesia during his escape.

    Months later, someone claiming to be Bond attempts to assassinate M. He is taken and interrogated, and recounts what happened: realising that Quantum had set him up, he feigned amnesia to make them think their plan had worked. He uses his life in a fishing village as cover while he conducts his investigation, and realises Tiger Tanaka is implicated. He confronts Tiger, who admits he knew of the plot, but has been trying to infiltrate Quantum himself. He was willing to send Bond to his death if that was the price of admission. Bond uses Tiger's resources to identify Quantum agents, and then they form a plan to find the leader of the organisation. Bond goes back to England and attempts to assassinate M. But it was a deliberate miss, and MI6 work out that Bond's weapon was deliberately tampered-with. The assassination attempt makes Quantum think that both Bond and M are dead. They try to put one of their own in charge of MI6, but Bond and M intercept their man and feed false infromation back to Quantum, interrogating the would-be M for information about Magic-44 and Quantum. In the end, Bond travels to Vladivostok and kills Magic-44 before going on to confront the leader of Quantum. The film ends before we see the leader's face, but we get all of Bond's reaction.
  • SexpionageSexpionage Suspended
    Posts: 49
    all the Fleming books should be remade, especially Moore's and follow the books completely 100%. if u disagree with that okay, I don't care, and I bet any money that will happen in the future
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    all the Fleming books should be remade, especially Moore's and follow the books completely 100%. if u disagree with that okay, I don't care, and I bet any money that will happen in the future
    It never will. New times and global events will spark new avenues for stories and EON will never remake a Bond film. It would confuse the high count of films they hold in high esteem.
  • Posts: 2,341
    all the Fleming books should be remade, especially Moore's and follow the books completely 100%. if u disagree with that okay, I don't care, and I bet any money that will happen in the future
    Moore's? everyone would be so disappointed if they had stayed true to the book TSWLM.
    The giant squid in DR was kinda "over the top"
    The Garden of Death would be a great set maybe we will see it in a future movie.

  • edited November 2013 Posts: 4,408
    I think M's assassination attempt was pretty well incorporated into Skyfall, with Silva taking on the role of Bond. Which makes sense as Silva is supposed to be 007's doppelgänger.

    I hope that Mendes and the prods do go on and re-adapt the less faithful Fleming novels or just take elements from the book, for instance a modern interpretation of Blofeld etc.

    The big issue is that a lot of the material from Fleming's novels are very dated. They are written very much for there time and audience. The post-war influence is undeniable, MR is the best example.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 15,106
    I think there are plenty of elements from Fleming's novels that can be adapted and reused. In MR there is the Gala Brand character, for instance, and a lot of the interaction between Bond and Drax. At least parts of Drax's plot can be reused, including his idea of changing appearance when his evil deed is done. In YOLT, it may seem tricky because it is maybe the most surreal of all Fleming's novels, where Blofeld is a pure madman, that said those elements can also be adapted in a modern setting. The Garden of Death can be the dwelling place of a villain who uses it both as a repellant from intruders and as a WMD factory, so to speak: creating toxic products from plants and what have you. The scorpions, snakes and dangerous animals would be there as extra protection. As for TMWTGG, it would be interesting to have an expert marksman modeled after Scaramanga (minus the golden gun and the family name), in physique and mannerism, as the main villain. And it would be original to make the henchman the main villain, something they did not do with the movie version. And the train scene and the scene when the villain shoots down a bird out of pure cruel pleasure could be used too, among others.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 2,598
    There are a number of sections from the Fleming novels that can be adapted for the screen. I've forever been hanging out to see The Hilbrand Rarity incorporated into a Bond movie. This is my favourite Bond short story. For me, the Bond stories that are set in the islands are my favourites, most of which are set in the West Indies. Maybe the passion that Fleming feels for the Caribbean or at least Jamaica is what increases my liking for these books. I haven't forgotten that THR is set in The Seychelles though. :) It's another Bond yarn that is set in the islands though which I love. Bond has a liking for scuba diving and I love reading about what Bond enjoys doing too.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 2,598
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think there are plenty of elements from Fleming's novels that can be adapted and reused. In MR there is the Gala Brand character, for instance, and a lot of the interaction between Bond and Drax. At least parts of Drax's plot can be reused, including his idea of changing appearance when his evil deed is done. In YOLT, it may seem tricky because it is maybe the most surreal of all Fleming's novels, where Blofeld is a pure madman, that said those elements can also be adapted in a modern setting. The Garden of Death can be the dwelling place of a villain who uses it both as a repellant from intruders and as a WMD factory, so to speak: creating toxic products from plants and what have you. The scorpions, snakes and dangerous animals would be there as extra protection. As for TMWTGG, it would be interesting to have an expert marksman modeled after Scaramanga (minus the golden gun and the family name), in physique and mannerism, as the main villain. And it would be original to make the henchman the main villain, something they did not do with the movie version. And the train scene and the scene when the villain shoots down a bird out of pure cruel pleasure could be used too, among others.

    In terms of YOLT, I'd love to see a faithful adaptation of this book, but sadly, I'm just not sure if Eon, in this day and age, would go for a more fairly tale element incorporating a castle and a garden of death. Perhaps a sad reality of the contemporary Bond movies.

  • Posts: 2,598
    OHMSS69 wrote:
    <blockquote rel="Sexpionage">all the Fleming books should be remade, especially Moore's and follow the books completely 100%. if u disagree with that okay, I don't care, and I bet any money that will happen in the future </blockquote>

    Moore's? everyone would be so disappointed if they had stayed true to the book TSWLM.
    The giant squid in DR was kinda "over the top"
    The Garden of Death would be a great set maybe we will see it in a future movie.

    So was the silly, cheesy way in which Dr No died.

  • Posts: 15,106
    Bounine wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I think there are plenty of elements from Fleming's novels that can be adapted and reused. In MR there is the Gala Brand character, for instance, and a lot of the interaction between Bond and Drax. At least parts of Drax's plot can be reused, including his idea of changing appearance when his evil deed is done. In YOLT, it may seem tricky because it is maybe the most surreal of all Fleming's novels, where Blofeld is a pure madman, that said those elements can also be adapted in a modern setting. The Garden of Death can be the dwelling place of a villain who uses it both as a repellant from intruders and as a WMD factory, so to speak: creating toxic products from plants and what have you. The scorpions, snakes and dangerous animals would be there as extra protection. As for TMWTGG, it would be interesting to have an expert marksman modeled after Scaramanga (minus the golden gun and the family name), in physique and mannerism, as the main villain. And it would be original to make the henchman the main villain, something they did not do with the movie version. And the train scene and the scene when the villain shoots down a bird out of pure cruel pleasure could be used too, among others.

    In terms of YOLT, I'd love to see a faithful adaptation of this book, but sadly, I'm just not sure if Eon, in this day and age, would go for a more fairly tale element incorporating a castle and a garden of death. Perhaps a sad reality of the contemporary Bond movies.

    I don't see a faithful adaptation near because of the surreal elements in it, and how dark it is. It is borderline horror fiction. But some elements could be used, as I mentioned in my previous post.
  • 007InVT007InVT Classified
    Posts: 893
    I would add to these te following:

    Saratoga Race Track scene in DAF
    The Havelock murders in Jamaica and Vermont shoot-out scene in For Your Eyes Only
    The car chase through Kent in Moonraker
    The entire Octopussy short story
    The entire 007 in New York short story
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 3,327
    The entire novel of TMWTGG hasn't been adapted yet, never mind the brainwashed opening, and yes this novel could easily work on film.....
  • Posts: 7,507
    Lets be brutally honest here: Another problem with a straight adaptation of Moonraker is that the novel simply does not contain enough material for a modern, two hour epic action film. They can use (more) sequences from the novel or add new elements to the story, but a straight adaptation? I'm sorry...
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    An ICBM pointed at London wasn't big enough...in 1979
  • Posts: 15,106
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets be brutally honest here: Another problem with a straight adaptation of Moonraker is that the novel simply does not contain enough material for a modern, two hour epic action film. They can use (more) sequences from the novel or add new elements to the story, but a straight adaptation? I'm sorry...

    And they have milked a lot of MR in the films, ironically not so much in the "direct" adaptation. But anyway you can recognize elements of MR in AVTAK, GE, DAD and more recently SF. You could also argue that there are remnants of it in TND.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets be brutally honest here: Another problem with a straight adaptation of Moonraker is that the novel simply does not contain enough material for a modern, two hour epic action film. They can use (more) sequences from the novel or add new elements to the story, but a straight adaptation? I'm sorry...

    And they have milked a lot of MR in the films, ironically not so much in the "direct" adaptation. But anyway you can recognize elements of MR in AVTAK, GE, DAD and more recently SF. You could also argue that there are remnants of it in TND.

    And if rumours are true, more will pop up in Spectre... The chances of making a straight adaptation went over fourty years ago. But there are still many elements they can use of course. Personally I wonder when they will have a go at filming the 'bridge scene'. If it is indeed even filmable...?
  • Each to their own 007 but IVNSHO (in Villiers53's not so humble opinion), the very idea of taking snatches of Fleming is a sacrilege.
    What we need is for HBO to take the whole body of work and to reinterpret it as close to the source material as possible.This would enhance the Bond franchise enormously and give eon two bites of the cherry whilst allowing Ian's stories to be showcased in their unadulterated form.
    Furthermore they should all be set in the year the novel was written.
    At the end of the day, the 'Mona Lisa' is not displayed in pieces or her hair re-styled to look like Kim Kardashian with the thought that it may be more contemporary.
    You just have to look at the recent episodes of 'Foyle's War' to imagine how powerful period Bond could be!
  • Posts: 15,106
    jobo wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Lets be brutally honest here: Another problem with a straight adaptation of Moonraker is that the novel simply does not contain enough material for a modern, two hour epic action film. They can use (more) sequences from the novel or add new elements to the story, but a straight adaptation? I'm sorry...

    And they have milked a lot of MR in the films, ironically not so much in the "direct" adaptation. But anyway you can recognize elements of MR in AVTAK, GE, DAD and more recently SF. You could also argue that there are remnants of it in TND.

    And if rumours are true, more will pop up in Spectre... The chances of making a straight adaptation went over fourty years ago. But there are still many elements they can use of course. Personally I wonder when they will have a go at filming the 'bridge scene'. If it is indeed even filmable...?

    I think the bridge scene could work, but Blofeld is not Drax so I cannot see it in Spectre. The henchmen with bald heads and moustaches to change their identity later could be used as well.

    On a side note, the villain with obscure origins was the model for Drax, but also Le Chiffre and Goldfinger. The first two claimed partial amnesia as well. Not sure how this could be used, but I think it might.
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Villiers53 wrote: »
    At the end of the day, the 'Mona Lisa' is not displayed in pieces or her hair re-styled to look like Kim Kardashian with the thought that it may be more contemporary.

    But the Mona Lisa is a singular, untainted piece of art. The same applies to Fleming's novels. What happens in the cinematic universe has no literal impact on the literary work of Fleming. The same way that an artist re-imagining the Mona Lisa does not physically alter the original.

    Regards a period TV series, I have my reservations. Bond on screen, and in print for that matter, should be contemporary in my eyes. If Fleming had lived in to his eighties and continued writing novels, those latter novels would have been set in the seventies and eighties themselves. Bond is and always has been a contemporary character, not a period character.

    I can see the thrill of a direct adaptation, particularly MR, but I think it would sully everything that continues to give the character longevity. I'll happily just read the novel. At the end of the day, even a vigorously faithful adaptation will not top the work of Fleming, so I'd rather see new ideas with a flavour of Fleming.

  • It is almost criminal that EON have avoided using the Garden of Death. The idea is so interesting, unusual and macabre (not to mention original, something you don;t typically associate with the Bond films). It's probably the best thing in the Fleming novels but yet they are avoided it. I suppose it's a rather uncommercial proposition, after all Bond films needs to appeal to all audiences and the 'Garden of Death' would surely prove a little too controversial for EON's tastes. Suicide is not exactly an idea that appeals to the mainstream and likely be considered too morbid by studio bosses to utilise in a big-budget action film. Also I guess the producers have a social and ethical responsibility not to be seen endorsing suicide in a major Hollywood film. Furthermore, maybe a large $200m+ action film is likely the wrong forum for such large issues to be tackled.

    However, there are ways to incorporate the garden without it ostentatiously being controversial. After all even in Fleming's original novel the Garden is a political embarrassment to the Japanese Government who despise their countries's supposed reputation for suicide. If the filmmakers adopt this approach they would be able to clearly express there opinion as well as dealing with the ethical and political issues in Japan. Furthermore, why not have a Japanese girl in the film who wishes to commit suicide only then to have her side with Bond and gradually change her mind? Maybe that's a little too obvious but I'm sure Oscar-winning talents like Sam Mendes et al. can dream up something better.

    Anyway, the idea of Japanese 'gardens of deaths' are already having the cinematic treatment with this years 'Sea of Trees' starring Matthew McConaughey and directed by Gus Van Sant. It's likely to be a big Oscar player and knowing Bond's reputation for following the crowd, I wouldn't rule it out yet appearing in a film.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3450900/

    BcbMwiB.jpg
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 3,327
    I think the Garden of Death angle could work in the modern era Craig Bond films, which all 3 have been fairly dark in parts. Blofeld's castle of death could easily fit in with the new vision of Bond, and the suicide angle can show how wrong it is to commit suicide, not glorify it in any way, so the moral angle doesn't get in the way either.

    I can easily imagine Craig in this scene, hiding in a wooden hut, watching on in horror as a poor Japanese fellow jumps headlong into a boiling lake, and then Bond finally confronting Blofeld in his torture room, Bond forced to sit on a chair that will volcanically erupt in 5 minutes time. This is no darker than Bond being strapped naked and having his balls whacked, or being homo-sexually teased while strapped to a chair.

    And think of the cinematic thrill of seeing Bond escape on a large helium balloon that floats away from the castle, until a damaged and bruised Bond drops from it into the sea after being shot.

    Yes, I can easily picture Craig in these scenes.....
  • Posts: 15,106
    There's a lot of elements that can be used from the novels: characters and settings. Heck, even menus!
  • The producers and writers can easily re-interpret all the unused content and novels. Even the short stories that have been used in past films can still be used in a new and exciting way.
  • Posts: 5,989
    For Moonraker, I used the basic idea for a James Bond 007 Role-Playing Game scenario, and made it work for the 80s. In my draft, the villain (which I named John Dragon), built a satellite that, launched with the Ariane rocket, took control of the rocket and sent it directly to Cape Canaveral, thus crippling two space programs for the price of one . It worked. At least for my players.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    Villiers53 wrote: »
    At the end of the day, the 'Mona Lisa' is not displayed in pieces or her hair re-styled to look like Kim Kardashian with the thought that it may be more contemporary.

    But the Mona Lisa is a singular, untainted piece of art. The same applies to Fleming's novels. What happens in the cinematic universe has no literal impact on the literary work of Fleming. The same way that an artist re-imagining the Mona Lisa does not physically alter the original.

    Regards a period TV series, I have my reservations. Bond on screen, and in print for that matter, should be contemporary in my eyes. If Fleming had lived in to his eighties and continued writing novels, those latter novels would have been set in the seventies and eighties themselves. Bond is and always has been a contemporary character, not a period character.

    I can see the thrill of a direct adaptation, particularly MR, but I think it would sully everything that continues to give the character longevity. I'll happily just read the novel. At the end of the day, even a vigorously faithful adaptation will not top the work of Fleming, so I'd rather see new ideas with a flavour of Fleming.
    Not surprisingly, I can't agree with this and to assert that cinematic adaptations have no impact on literary Bond can't be correct.
    Anybody with a molucum of taste seeing the Moonraker movie would be unlikely to pick up Fleming's book. Conversely, anybody impressed with the movie would be unlikely to have the intellect to appreciate the novel.
    One is a silk purse, the other is a sow's ear!
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