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Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    The universe is a weird place. People weren't expecting this James Bond and they were too wtf about Tim dalton. But he was James Bond.
    Pierce was let down by the material. He is a great actor, but when he is asked to hold a turd, he's gonna get dirty and not come out smelling like a rose
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Dalton had more acting experience than Brosnan and fought back when he didn't like something. Brosnan then was a yes man. He wasn't going to bite the hand that fed him. Post Bond Brosnan would probably have stood up to EON and said no, I won't do this.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I've said it before but imagine if Moore had only done his first two. How does that change his legacy? Regardless of how you feel about LALD and TMWTGG, it was SPY that was Moore's ultimate moment as Bond.

    So it's easy to imagine the same happening for Dalton if he had starred in GE. Then again, would GE have been the same if it had come out in '91 or '92 as originally planned? Probably not. How would that have affected the success of the film? Did the six year gap provide the general public with some breathing room from their Bond fatigue? Yes, I think so.

    It's not an exact science but I think a 3rd film in the style of GE would have been just what the doctor ordered for Dalton and his legacy moving forward.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2015 Posts: 15,718
    But without the 6 years gap, how much longer could the franchise continue to make films every 2 years? Had they continued until TWINE/whatever in 1999, there would have been 11 films between 1979 and 1999. It was bound that there would be a long hiatus, because IMO they had to take a moment to breathe, and let the audience breathe as well, and think about what direction the franchise should be going. I think this is what will bring the superhero craze down sooner or later if both DC and Marvel bring 2+ films every year.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    pachazo wrote: »
    It's not an exact science but I think a 3rd film in the style of GE would have been just what the doctor ordered for Dalton and his legacy moving forward.

    I'm completely with you on that. 3 would have been the charm for Dalts. It looks like 3 is the charm for many of the Bond actors (GF, TSWLM, SF).
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    TWInE? ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    TWInE? ;)

    I intentionally left that one out. That was the one that did not follow the pattern imo, along came the reboot after one more movie, and the rest is history.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    He only convinced me he couldn't act for toffee in TWINE
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    He only convinced me he couldn't act for toffee in TWINE

    I thought it was the worst performance I have ever seen him in - and as I said on another thread, I've seen some real stinkers he made in his B movie era. Very affected and melodramatic to me, although he was more confident here than in GE. Surpising because he made the Thomas Crown Affair around the same time and was very good in that one imo.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I know totally bizarre how he was turning in decent performances elsewhere at the same time
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited January 2015 Posts: 11,189
    I think Brosnan sometimes pushes himself a little too hard when it comes to acting angry or aggressive. I've noticed in other films he can't really do that very well.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited January 2015 Posts: 11,425
    Says the Brosnan fan...
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Well...he does. I've never tried to say he was a perfect actor, just that I enjoyed watching him.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Well...he does. I've never tried to say he was a perfect actor, just that I enjoyed watching him.

    I like the balanced analytical assessment. Kudos.

  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    He was the Bond I grew up with and first saw. For many years he was subsequently my favourite so how can I NOT like him.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    No I get that. I grew up on Moore and it's the same thing - I know he has flaws but I'm willing to overlook them. You know what they say about your first.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    pachazo wrote: »
    It's not an exact science but I think a 3rd film in the style of GE would have been just what the doctor ordered for Dalton and his legacy moving forward.

    Having read some of the outlines of a possible third Dalton vehicle. property of a lady, I dare to say that it would have killed the franchise definitely. Not a legacy you want to carry as an actor.

    GE was not written for Dalton but for PB, and he did do bloody marvelous also because he finally played the part he was expected to play. Which is something that must be have been tough on Dalton, knowing that he is the only 007 that got "fired" [ even if Brocolli was true to him] and failed by popular demand.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,883
    SaintMark wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    It's not an exact science but I think a 3rd film in the style of GE would have been just what the doctor ordered for Dalton and his legacy moving forward.

    Having read some of the outlines of a possible third Dalton vehicle. property of a lady, I dare to say that it would have killed the franchise definitely. Not a legacy you want to carry as an actor.

    GE was not written for Dalton but for PB, and he did do bloody marvelous also because he finally played the part he was expected to play. Which is something that must be have been tough on Dalton, knowing that he is the only 007 that got "fired" [ even if Brocolli was true to him] and failed by popular demand.

    I thought PB was the only one to get fired? Didn't Dalton resign due to the length of time after LTK?

    PB wanted to do a 5th one from what I remember. He was negotiating in the press during the time that After the Sunset came out, and EON announced they'd gone with Craig - I don't think he even knew about it before the press did.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    It's impossible to know whether Dalton was pushed or let go, unless one was there at the time.
    And if i'm not mistaken, Brosnan was dropped/fired. All that box office meant nothing at the end of the day.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Brosnan was not fired, he was told that they would no longer require his services and as there was no contract they could not be any firing involved. He was not rehired........... Which was a bit of a surprise for PB and he reacted badly to it, no doubt about that. On the other hand EON could have done it in a better way as he did resurrect the franchise after the LTK debacle. They could have kept him in the loop, but then again EONs history with its leading actors has not always been that brilliant.

    TD was still up for another movie contractually, which was never going to happen as the non-EON folks, US studio, were done with Dalton.
  • ml94ml94 Finland
    Posts: 88
    Yes, Timothy is underrated...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    No I get that. I grew up on Moore and it's the same thing - I know he has flaws but I'm willing to overlook them. You know what they say about your first.

    That the second is easier?
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    ml94 wrote: »
    Yes, Timothy is underrated...

    I think GE would have been a tour de force for Dalton

  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    dramaticscenesofQOS wrote: »
    Goldeneye certainly would have been better with Dalton as both a Bond movie and a movie due to his establishment as having played the part before and also as this film does contain a couple of nods to TLD, while the original script would have connected LTK by having mentioned his evaluator as being sent upon his return to active duty. Certainly PB hadn't toned up much for the role until TND, which isn't regarded as much of a good film by many (not all) fans.

    Lastly, the plot of the film was suitable to TD's dramatic approach. LTK was all about how far Bond went to do something for a friend. GE has TD's ghost all over it. Ultimately, he wasn't the "money Bond" but in the end, both PB and TD were people who had to be reapproached for the role at different significantly past times, and they got their chance for at least a couple of films each.

    Let PB's attitude to the role, lack of involvement of getting his hands dirty with production and critique of talking behind his bosses backs serve as a case in point. He could have had a 5th film: the studios and fans liked the idea, but instead it got to a point where DAD turned out the way it did all OTT and there was a lack of character-driven films, many critics including fans were just getting tired. So the only way to make it better was to hire someone with a solid dramatic background who could take ownership and share responsibility of the roles and films to work with the producers instead of against, and here we are today.
    What nods did GE give to TLD?
  • scouse007scouse007
    edited January 2015 Posts: 90
    TD was a head of his time and played Bond like DC does today. I think RM would have suited TLD as his swansong rather than AVTAK and maybe used AVTAK and made it more darker could have been TD first Bond Film. However, I think TD would have made GE a hit and would have explained the absence of Bond for the years not on the screen.

    PB was not given the chance to be a darker Bond and felt his films at times very safe and formulamatic. I would have took the chance and develop a darker and brooding Bond with a violent streak.

    DC version is acceptable today and I wonder when he hangs up his Walther PPK, if the next person will be excepted or we have GL situation and DC returns to then it be given to who EON really want. Example, actors are contracted to do films and say I was in the frame and checking my diary I might not be available for the next four years, so do we make a film to cover the time till we get who we want or get them contracted and wait till they can start. Thus, who ever they have in mind needs to be accepted by the public, not copy DC and have a really good story to start their term as Bond. Going back to the question I don't think TD could have made TND, TWINE hits, I do think DAD he could have done and out of the DC films if SF was filmed back then I think he could have done good with it.

    Looking at the media I get the sneaky feeling Tom Hardy is being lined up, as he is in films people are raving about and the public are more excepting of him as an actor. He would make an interesting choice and needs the story to fit in with his persona.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    If the next actor does a Laz and leaves after one film I'll be suggesting they bring back the Daltonator!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    If the next actor does a Laz and leaves after one film I'll be suggesting they bring back the Daltonator!

    In a wheelchair!

  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    On his death bed if need be - he'd still be awesome!
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    Dalton is without doubt my 3rd favourite Bond behind Craig and Connery. Id love to see him return for a one off.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I used to have Dalton at third place behind Sean and Rog, but on a recent rewatching I'm wondering if Laz may not have taken third spot. That's not a criticism of Tim - I just think OHMSS is so great that Laz perhaps deserves that third spot.

    That would leave things looking like this:

    Sean
    Rog
    Laz
    Tim
    Dan
    Pierce
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