SPECTRE Leaks Discussion (allowed on ONLY this thread) MAJOR PLOTLINE SPOILERS!

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  • Posts: 3,164
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Well bond viewing m's video is still there?
    yeah, but it doesn't reappear in the control.room scene.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Stamper wrote: »
    We need a director's cut on DVD.

    EoN are too stingy with their material for this to happen.
  • Posts: 387
    Yeah, I know, but there's a first for everything. Both QOS and this one would benefit. Imagine the dough coming in :)
  • RC7RC7
    edited October 2015 Posts: 10,512
    Stamper wrote: »
    Yeah, I know, but there's a first for everything. Both QOS and this one would benefit. Imagine the dough coming in :)

    No one cares apart from a select group of fans. Unlikely EON will do it anyhow, people are already butt-hurt enough about continuity, they don't need more fuel for that particular fire.

    Plus, White dies (supposedly) in the extended QoS, so it should stay exactly where it is. In the bin.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 387
    Are you working at EON? If not you can't be certain. And even if you would, you wouldn't post here. Anyway I never said put back everything, just re-edit the film to a watchable one re QOS.
    SPECTRE needs a DC too. Or extended version, whatever. They did it with the Alien box set, there's no way to predict that EON / SONY wouldn't take that option for a Craig Bond set. It's all about bucks. Nothing is set in stone.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Stamper wrote: »
    Are you working at EON? If not you can't be certain. And I never said put back everything, just re-edit the film to a watchable one.

    They're not going to re-edit it. You should get used to that fact.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    RC7 wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Are you working at EON? If not you can't be certain. And I never said put back everything, just re-edit the film to a watchable one.

    They're not going to re-edit it. You should get used to that fact.

    Afraid RC7 is right. If theyve never bothered to go and do something as simple as remove the shitty slide whistle that ruins one of the best stunts in history they aren't about to go tinkering on a bigger scale.

    Although it's a nice idea it won't happen and we should be careful what we wish for. Perhaps they could get George Lucas in to do it? Professor Dent shoots first anyone?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Stamper wrote: »
    Are you working at EON? If not you can't be certain. And I never said put back everything, just re-edit the film to a watchable one.

    They're not going to re-edit it. You should get used to that fact.

    Afraid RC7 is right. If theyve never bothered to go and do something as simple as remove the shitty slide whistle that ruins one of the best stunts in history they aren't about to go tinkering on a bigger scale.

    Although it's a nice idea it won't happen and we should be careful what we wish for. Perhaps they could get George Lucas in to do it? Professor Dent shoots first anyone?

    Ha ha. That gives me the shivers. Thank Christ canon is canon and we don't have a Lucas sniffing around.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Stamper wrote: »
    Are you working at EON? If not you can't be certain. And even if you would, you wouldn't post here. Anyway I never said put back everything, just re-edit the film to a watchable one re QOS.
    SPECTRE needs a DC too. Or extended version, whatever. They did it with the Alien box set, there's no way to predict that EON / SONY wouldn't take that option for a Craig Bond set. It's all about bucks. Nothing is set in stone.

    You're obviously new to the EON/Bond universe. As @TheWizardOfIce notes, there are plenty of canonical anomalies that should/could have been rectified, but they preserve the originals whether we like it or not and I respect them for not being drawn into the web of fan wank.
  • Posts: 198
    TripAces wrote: »
    In the trailers, when Bond is walking down the hall, a woman turns around and watches him. This appears to be the same woman seated at a SPECTRE meeting. I believe it is Dr. Vogel. For those who have seen the film, is this the same woman? Is Vogel a mole of some kind at MI6?

    Interestingly, this was deleted from the film. After the MTS, the film opens with Bond’s briefing with M.

    There are a few changes from the trailer:

    -Moneypenny and Bond in his flat is entirely reshot for the final film. Instead of handing the Skyfall file to him in his apartment it takes place in a courtyard. In the trailer the scene seems quite ominous, in the final film it’s quite jocular.
    -Bond tenderly holding Swan’s face as he kisses her on the train is cut. The scene plays out in a long shot.
    -Waltz’s delivery of ‘Welcome James’


    That’s it, I think…

    Moneypenny offered the Skyfall personal affects to Bond at MI6 headquarters, but Bond told her to give it to him that evening at his apartment at 9pm. Moneypenny gets Bond his personal effects from Skyfall that evening, as agreed. After some talking,while Bond is still dressed and carries his shoulderholster, Moneypenny leaves and we see Bond in his bathrobe checking his personal effects.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Muddyw wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    In the trailers, when Bond is walking down the hall, a woman turns around and watches him. This appears to be the same woman seated at a SPECTRE meeting. I believe it is Dr. Vogel. For those who have seen the film, is this the same woman? Is Vogel a mole of some kind at MI6?

    Interestingly, this was deleted from the film. After the MTS, the film opens with Bond’s briefing with M.

    There are a few changes from the trailer:

    -Moneypenny and Bond in his flat is entirely reshot for the final film. Instead of handing the Skyfall file to him in his apartment it takes place in a courtyard. In the trailer the scene seems quite ominous, in the final film it’s quite jocular.
    -Bond tenderly holding Swan’s face as he kisses her on the train is cut. The scene plays out in a long shot.
    -Waltz’s delivery of ‘Welcome James’


    That’s it, I think…

    Moneypenny offered the Skyfall personal affects to Bond at MI6 headquarters, but Bond told her to give it to him that evening at his apartment at 9pm. Moneypenny gets Bond his personal effects from Skyfall that evening, as agreed. After some talking,while Bond is still dressed and carries his shoulderholster, Moneypenny leaves and we see Bond in his bathrobe checking his personal effects.

    Yes. The bathrobe is still there.
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    We'll probably never know, but C may be only here because they had to throw away the twist that M was a traitor, because of Fiennes' refusal... M being a traitor would have make an even more divisive movie surely, but a better story possibly :)

    Possibly true, but the whomever created the M/Tanner as traitors idea should be relieved of duty. Thankfully Fiennes had the class and experience to refuse such a silly idea. Tanner as a traitor is even more absurd and out of left-field.

    I personally think C worked well in this film. He was a necessary component. The main issue was the lack of anything between Bond and Swann. in OHMSS the relationship between Bond and Tracy felt organic and measured. In SP it's just clumsy and forced, and I likely won't care if she's killed off in the next film.

  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    Nobody wants to talk about the Mouse, I thought that was such a great moment. Bring back the mouse in Bond 25.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    AVB wrote: »
    We'll probably never know, but C may be only here because they had to throw away the twist that M was a traitor, because of Fiennes' refusal... M being a traitor would have make an even more divisive movie surely, but a better story possibly :)

    Possibly true, but the whomever created the M/Tanner as traitors idea should be relieved of duty. Thankfully Fiennes had the class and experience to refuse such a silly idea. Tanner as a traitor is even more absurd and out of left-field.

    I personally think C worked well in this film. He was a necessary component. The main issue was the lack of anything between Bond and Swann. in OHMSS the relationship between Bond and Tracy felt organic and measured. In SP it's just clumsy and forced, and I likely won't care if she's killed off in the next film.

    I never read any of the leaked scripts or any of that stuff but are you seriously saying that the original idea was that M was a traitor and the only person to see it as a load of bollocks was Fiennes otherwise it would've gone ahead? Jesus Christ that's terrifying. What are EON playing at.

    The notion of Tanner being a traitor is even more risible. So P&W thought a big twist for the climax would be Rory 'less screen presence than the double take pigeon' Kinnear revealing the reason he has done absolutely nothing, except open doors for M, in 3 films was not ineptitude but because he was a traitor? Most of the people in the audience would be confused and think 'why is that extra who stands behind M and Q suddenly the focus of the film?'

    Although to be fair he would be perfect as a mole given he fits to a tee Fleming's description of a spy as 'the man who is just a silhouette'. Although I don't think dear old Ian meant someone so bland and forgettable even his missus doesn't recognise him when he climbs into bed and calls the police to report a sex pest is attacking her.

    When Rory walks into a room people just close the door thinking there's a draught.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Could it have a deeper meaning ? ;)
    Blofeld has his cat, ( manipulating, people and events ) while Bond has
    a mouse, as he is the " Prey" for Blofeld ?
    Only joking. :))
  • AVBAVB
    Posts: 97
    AVB wrote: »
    We'll probably never know, but C may be only here because they had to throw away the twist that M was a traitor, because of Fiennes' refusal... M being a traitor would have make an even more divisive movie surely, but a better story possibly :)

    Possibly true, but the whomever created the M/Tanner as traitors idea should be relieved of duty. Thankfully Fiennes had the class and experience to refuse such a silly idea. Tanner as a traitor is even more absurd and out of left-field.

    I personally think C worked well in this film. He was a necessary component. The main issue was the lack of anything between Bond and Swann. in OHMSS the relationship between Bond and Tracy felt organic and measured. In SP it's just clumsy and forced, and I likely won't care if she's killed off in the next film.

    I never read any of the leaked scripts or any of that stuff but are you seriously saying that the original idea was that M was a traitor and the only person to see it as a load of bollocks was Fiennes otherwise it would've gone ahead? Jesus Christ that's terrifying. What are EON playing at.

    The notion of Tanner being a traitor is even more risible. So P&W thought a big twist for the climax would be Rory 'less screen presence than the double take pigeon' Kinnear revealing the reason he has done absolutely nothing, except open doors for M, in 3 films was not ineptitude but because he was a traitor? Most of the people in the audience would be confused and think 'why is that extra who stands behind M and Q suddenly the focus of the film?'

    Although to be fair he would be perfect as a mole given he fits to a tee Fleming's description of a spy as 'the man who is just a silhouette'. Although I don't think dear old Ian meant someone so bland and forgettable even his missus doesn't recognise him when he climbs into bed and calls the police to report a sex pest is attacking her.

    When Rory walks into a room people just close the door thinking there's a draught.

    Bwahahahahaha! Oh lord that was quite a read.

    Not in the script that I read(cannot remember which draft that was), but yes, originally Ralph was supposed to be a traitor; which was such a horrible idea anyway, but especially so given the events of SF and how he portrayed. Fiennes is an absolute joy in SF and SP, I think his casting was great. As for good old Heinekin drinking Tanner, god knows what purpose it would have served.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    AVB wrote: »
    AVB wrote: »
    We'll probably never know, but C may be only here because they had to throw away the twist that M was a traitor, because of Fiennes' refusal... M being a traitor would have make an even more divisive movie surely, but a better story possibly :)

    Possibly true, but the whomever created the M/Tanner as traitors idea should be relieved of duty. Thankfully Fiennes had the class and experience to refuse such a silly idea. Tanner as a traitor is even more absurd and out of left-field.

    I personally think C worked well in this film. He was a necessary component. The main issue was the lack of anything between Bond and Swann. in OHMSS the relationship between Bond and Tracy felt organic and measured. In SP it's just clumsy and forced, and I likely won't care if she's killed off in the next film.

    I never read any of the leaked scripts or any of that stuff but are you seriously saying that the original idea was that M was a traitor and the only person to see it as a load of bollocks was Fiennes otherwise it would've gone ahead? Jesus Christ that's terrifying. What are EON playing at.

    The notion of Tanner being a traitor is even more risible. So P&W thought a big twist for the climax would be Rory 'less screen presence than the double take pigeon' Kinnear revealing the reason he has done absolutely nothing, except open doors for M, in 3 films was not ineptitude but because he was a traitor? Most of the people in the audience would be confused and think 'why is that extra who stands behind M and Q suddenly the focus of the film?'

    Although to be fair he would be perfect as a mole given he fits to a tee Fleming's description of a spy as 'the man who is just a silhouette'. Although I don't think dear old Ian meant someone so bland and forgettable even his missus doesn't recognise him when he climbs into bed and calls the police to report a sex pest is attacking her.

    When Rory walks into a room people just close the door thinking there's a draught.

    Bwahahahahaha! Oh lord that was quite a read.

    Not in the script that I read(cannot remember which draft that was), but yes, originally Ralph was supposed to be a traitor; which was such a horrible idea anyway, but especially so given the events of SF and how he portrayed. Fiennes is an absolute joy in SF and SP, I think his casting was great. As for good old Heinekin drinking Tanner, god knows what purpose it would have served.

    Well at least Bond might have killed him so I wouldnt have to put up with seeing his gormless half moon face in the corner of the screen while proper characters are talking ever again.

    Shame though as we missed out on a real series highlight - Bond v Rory would surely have topped the FRWL train fight?
  • Posts: 1,314
    Can anyone provide an outline of the Logan original script which sent this whole production into chaos?

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 2,115
    AVB wrote: »
    We'll probably never know, but C may be only here because they had to throw away the twist that M was a traitor, because of Fiennes' refusal... M being a traitor would have make an even more divisive movie surely, but a better story possibly :)

    Possibly true, but the whomever created the M/Tanner as traitors idea should be relieved of duty. Thankfully Fiennes had the class and experience to refuse such a silly idea. Tanner as a traitor is even more absurd and out of left-field.

    I personally think C worked well in this film. He was a necessary component. The main issue was the lack of anything between Bond and Swann. in OHMSS the relationship between Bond and Tracy felt organic and measured. In SP it's just clumsy and forced, and I likely won't care if she's killed off in the next film.

    I never read any of the leaked scripts or any of that stuff but are you seriously saying that the original idea was that M was a traitor and the only person to see it as a load of bollocks was Fiennes otherwise it would've gone ahead? Jesus Christ that's terrifying. What are EON playing at.

    The notion of Tanner being a traitor is even more risible. So P&W thought a big twist for the climax would be Rory 'less screen presence than the double take pigeon' Kinnear revealing the reason he has done absolutely nothing, except open doors for M, in 3 films was not ineptitude but because he was a traitor? Most of the people in the audience would be confused and think 'why is that extra who stands behind M and Q suddenly the focus of the film?'

    Although to be fair he would be perfect as a mole given he fits to a tee Fleming's description of a spy as 'the man who is just a silhouette'. Although I don't think dear old Ian meant someone so bland and forgettable even his missus doesn't recognise him when he climbs into bed and calls the police to report a sex pest is attacking her.

    When Rory walks into a room people just close the door thinking there's a draught.

    Tanner as traitor wasn't P&W's idea. That was in John Logan's early drafts. It also included Tanner committing suicide while Bond watched. Amy Pascal said she liked the idea of Tanner as traitor.
  • re: M as traitor. Someone I know who hadn't seen any of the stories about the Sony hacks was convinced M would turn out to be a traitor because of Fiennes playing the villain in the Harry Potter movies.
  • Posts: 4,615
    If the concept of M as a traitor was raised during a fan fiction proposal, I suspect within the forum, it would be shouted down very quickly. Some ideas or just so wrong that you dont have to put them down on paper, in fact they are so wrong that you dont even have them in the first place.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    patb wrote: »
    If the concept of M as a traitor was raised during a fan fiction proposal, I suspect within the forum, it would be shouted down very quickly. Some ideas or just so wrong that you dont have to put them down on paper, in fact they are so wrong that you dont even have them in the first place.

    I obviously didn't know about that traitor rubbish but I was against Logan from the start based simply on his previous work and his questionable take on Bond's history compared to Fleming's.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Yep, Logan was left to his own devices for a considerable amount of time and he came up with the garbage of M and Tanner being traitors. Ralph gated the idea and wasn't having any of it and this is what led to Baz Bamigboye's article of the script being in shambles. Purvis and Wade were called back in to try and fix the mess Logan made.
  • Posts: 486
    I'm sick of traitors. I know it's a spy fiction trope but the Fleming novels and EON films used to be mostly free of them until GE. It's what made me give up on the John Gardner novels, all that double and triple agent nonsense.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, Gardner loved a good traitor, double or triple agent. ;)
  • Posts: 486
    Yes, Gardner loved a good traitor, double or triple agent. ;)

    Indeed he did! I'll read the rest of his eventually. Wasn't it Icebreaker in which virtually everyone switched sides at some point!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) He eventually did it that often, that you were used to it, so
    could spot who would be the double agent would be.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 669
    @Cowley - yes, it was Icebreaker. That book has about ten reversals. I think there might even be a quadruple agent, lol.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    Yep, Logan was left to his own devices for a considerable amount of time and he came up with the garbage of M and Tanner being traitors. Ralph gated the idea and wasn't having any of it and this is what led to Baz Bamigboye's article of the script being in shambles. Purvis and Wade were called back in to try and fix the mess Logan made.

    I have a sneaking suspicion Logan was giving Mendes what he wanted. BOTH Logan and Mendes wanted more time for the script but were finally told in March 2014 to submit it, according to Sony emails in the Sony hacking.

  • Posts: 486
    @Cowley - yes, it was Icebreaker. That book has about ten reversals. I think there might even be a quadruple agent, lol.

    @PDJamesBond

    Oh good grief...you do know I'm going to end up reading this tomorrow don't you!!
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