Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    I think TMWTGG is vastly superior to LALD.

    - better villain
    - better sets
    - better cinematography
    - better climax and PTS
    - better performance by Moore (I'd say his best)

    Also Miss Anders blows Solitaire and Rosie out of the water.
  • Posts: 15,125
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I think TMWTGG is vastly superior to LALD.

    - better villain
    - better sets
    - better cinematography
    - better climax and PTS
    - better performance by Moore (I'd say his best)

    Also Miss Anders blows Solitaire and Rosie out of the water.

    I agree about Moore's performance.

    I think LALD is superior to TMWTGG, but the acting in Gun is far better overall.

    Here's something else controversial: Mary Goodnight was not miscast and even her character was not that bad. The issue was with the tone of the movie. Had she been a ditz in an overall more serious movie, she might have been accepted better.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited May 2016 Posts: 7,136
    I actually find her quite adorable. But that might be because I have a soft spot for Britt Ekland. :x
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Pierce's tenure really just shows how films get worse with each outing...

    That's not a blanket statement, it varies from franchise to franchise. Look at what happened to the 'Fast & Furious' films; whoever thought they'd get through that many installments before the series really took off and starting making insane money?

    Never really enjoyed any of those films to be honest.

    Which doesn't negate their success and popularity, nor does it counter my point: there are particular franchises out there that get better and better as time goes on. 'Mission: Impossible' immediately comes to mind, too.


    I have to agree with Mission Impossible, its now that it's finally seen as a great American spy franchise on its own than a poor man's James Bond.

    The franchise started with success since the beginning other wise we wouldn't have had Mi: 2 and 3 but its till 4th protocol that it became a boom maybe when Tom leaves the part and stays just as a producer will help to cast the next ethan hunt.



  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I think TMWTGG is vastly superior to LALD.

    - better villain
    - better sets
    - better cinematography
    - better climax and PTS
    - better performance by Moore (I'd say his best)

    Also Miss Anders blows Solitaire and Rosie out of the water.

    I agree about Moore's performance.

    I think LALD is superior to TMWTGG, but the acting in Gun is far better overall.

    Here's something else controversial: Mary Goodnight was not miscast and even her character was not that bad. The issue was with the tone of the movie. Had she been a ditz in an overall more serious movie, she might have been accepted better.
    I agree. I prefer Moore slightly in TMWTGG (but think both performances are first class) & I love Britt as Goodnight. I am partial to both films too however. Really good fun for me.

    Maud blows Gloria out of the water as well - agreed.

    TMWTGG is also much more colourful imho, with better, more exotic settings.

    They both feature incredible chase sequences (if one forgives the slide whistle though) and superb but quite different scores.
  • edited May 2016 Posts: 1,817
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I think TMWTGG is vastly superior to LALD.

    - better villain
    - better sets
    - better cinematography
    - better climax and PTS
    - better performance by Moore (I'd say his best)

    Also Miss Anders blows Solitaire and Rosie out of the water.

    Yes to better villain, but not by too much, since Kotto gives a very good performance as Kananga. Very very menacing after he reveals himself to be Mr. Big.

    Probably yes to sets and cinematography but I did not feel like this made TMWTGG a better film.

    Yes to the climax - specifically the duel and cat-and-mouse game between Bond and Scaramanga. But not if you factor in the retrieval of the Solex, contrived explosion shtick, Moore's unconvincing acting and the embarrassing fight with Nick Nack. What a chore to sit through. At least Kananga's explosion was done in two seconds.

    PTS is a bit better, but they are both bottom of the pile anyway.

    And actually, LALD is one of Moore's best performances. TMWTGG Moore definitely his most unconvincing, and completely at odds with the film at some point, particularly during the aforementioned jokey stuff at the end.

    Must disagree that Miss Anders blows Solitaire out of the water. I do prefer Solitaire. Most things are better than Rosie. Except Goodnight (worst Moore Bond girl).

    Mind you, just my opinion.
  • Posts: 787
    1. Dianna Rigg is the best Bond girl. She's quite beautiful though not in the least trashy, even though her character is convincing as a 'live fast/die young' type. These days it seems every single actress is keen to point out that their character is a new, empowered 'Bond Woman' who is James' equal. Rigg is the only actor who's ever actually pulled that off successfully.

    2. The USA has never been used well in a Bond film. Every time they film in America it looks cheap, flat, and lifeless. Vegas looked small, tired and trashy in DaF; neither Harlem nor the Bayou had sweat or soul in LaLD. GF's Miami and Kentucky scenes could have been shot anywhere, ditto VtaK's California and CR's Miami. LtK captures the Keys a little better, but still . . . for all the times they've gone back, they've never really "got" the USA.
  • Posts: 15,125
    @octofinger I think even people not putting Diana Rigg as the best Bond girl ever would find it controversial. As for the USA never working well in a Bond movie, I think it is partially due to the fact that it is a country featured in so many movies, it has lodt its exotism. Back in the 1950s, for non American the country was this fantastic, fascinating place.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree on Bond in America being a loser every time. It's more the Bond people not knowing what they're doing imho, rather than the location itself.

    Hitch showed many times (most notably in North By Northwest, which almost seems European in flavour despite being filmed in New York) and Vertigo (San Fran) what can be achieved if they put their backs into it.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I'll come out and say it, I have zero problem with Halle Berry as Jinx. She does well with the otherwise mediocre script she has to work with. Plus, she's not too bad to look at either.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'll come out and say it, I have zero problem with Halle Berry as Jinx. She does well with the otherwise mediocre script she has to work with. Plus, she's not too bad to look at either.

    Not so much controversial as certifiable.

    'Our asylums of full of people who think they are Napoleon...or that Halle Berry in DAD isn't an abomination.'

    I'll grant you that she looks pretty good coming out of the water in slo-mo but her performance goes rapidly downhill once she sets foot on the beach.
  • Posts: 669
    Michelle Yeoh is atrocious in TND. I'm not sure whether it's an issue of language barrier or just bad acting, but her line deliveries are so flat and terrible. When she says "Don't get any ideas," it's like watching a first grade play. It makes me cringe just as much as Halle Berry's "Yo mama!" two films later.
  • Posts: 1,469
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I think TMWTGG is vastly superior to LALD.
    I'm another who agrees. Love Maud Adams too...I think she was one Bond girl who had good chemistry with Roger Moore...no wonder they cast her again in Octopussy.
  • Posts: 4
    -Tomorrow Never Dies would be in my top ten, too

    -I really like DAF, the only films that came before it that I enjoy more are FRWL, GF and OHMSS (maybe DN).

    -TSWLM is perhaps my second favourite Moore film, but LALD, TMWTGG and OP are all almost as good.

    -I love the opening to QoS. The music, editing and camerawork just before the action kicks in are all superb.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,016
    Michelle Yeoh is atrocious in TND. I'm not sure whether it's an issue of language barrier or just bad acting, but her line deliveries are so flat and terrible. When she says "Don't get any ideas," it's like watching a first grade play. It makes me cringe just as much as Halle Berry's "Yo mama!" two films later.

    Yeah, she's ok in the action scenes but other than that she's a totally forgettable Bond girl.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Michelle Yeoh is atrocious in TND. I'm not sure whether it's an issue of language barrier or just bad acting, but her line deliveries are so flat and terrible. When she says "Don't get any ideas," it's like watching a first grade play. It makes me cringe just as much as Halle Berry's "Yo mama!" two films later.
    Yeoh is part Malaysian I believe. She delivers that line just like a Malaysian would. I've visited there and that's how they speak. It's a quite noticeable accent.
  • Posts: 15,125
    I'd say TND has among the most poorly conceived and developed Bond girls of the franchise.
  • Posts: 669
    @bondjames: Interesting point! Thanks for sharing. It never occurred to me that it might be the way someone from a different culture would naturally speak. I always just thought it was a (bad) acting decision.

    I still find her barely watchable, though. I've seen interviews with her and she seems like a lovely person so it's nothing against her personally, but whenever she's onscreen in TND, I just cringe.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm in agreement with you @PDJamesBond. I'm not a fan of Yeoh in TND either. In my case, my problem is that she's too much of an action girl without enough glamour. Too much of a Bond equal thing. At least Halle showed a little skin.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 15,125
    Way Lin might be the first true "Bond's equal" and maybe the only one, come to think of it. And that is why I dislike the character: she is completely redundant in the narrative. She is far more convincing than Jinx but that is far from a saving grace, on the contrary, she is even more of a distraction. And I agree with @bondjames, she sorely lacks glamour. But then again, all the Bond girls in TND are seriously lacking.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There are twice as many good Bond films as bad Bond films.

    Take that, community!
  • Posts: 1,394
    Michelle Yeoh is atrocious in TND. I'm not sure whether it's an issue of language barrier or just bad acting, but her line deliveries are so flat and terrible. When she says "Don't get any ideas," it's like watching a first grade play. It makes me cringe just as much as Halle Berry's "Yo mama!" two films later.

    Interesting fact: Jinx does not actually say that in the film.She actually says '' YOUR Mama! ''.I think its actually quite racist to think she says the former just cos shes a tough african american woman.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Michelle Yeoh is atrocious in TND. I'm not sure whether it's an issue of language barrier or just bad acting, but her line deliveries are so flat and terrible. When she says "Don't get any ideas," it's like watching a first grade play. It makes me cringe just as much as Halle Berry's "Yo mama!" two films later.

    Interesting fact: Jinx does not actually say that in the film.She actually says '' YOUR Mama! ''.I think its actually quite racist to think she says the former just cos shes a tough african american woman.

    Incorrectly remembering something isn't racist; everyone says those stupid "yo mama" jokes, so that's how some people recall the line.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited June 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Sounds like a slur between "yo" and "your" to me.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Isn't it the same meaning anyway? Your mama is what I thought I heard and it's the same thing to me.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Birdleson wrote: »
    This younger generation (to me that's under 35 or so) loves to apply the label of "racism" in frequently and out of habit.

    The Thin Skin Generation as I call it.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,423
    I was going to make a joke about dark skin, but I think I'm going to leave it
    Murdock wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    This younger generation (to me that's under 35 or so) loves to apply the label of "racism" in frequently and out of habit.

    The Thin Skin Generation as I call it.


  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    royale65 wrote: »
    I was going to make a joke about dark skin, but I think I'm going to leave it
    Murdock wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    This younger generation (to me that's under 35 or so) loves to apply the label of "racism" in frequently and out of habit.

    The Thin Skin Generation as I call it.

    =))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @Birdleson, I know exactly what you mean. It ended with MR. There was a concerted effort to make the Bond films more grounded, and more of their time in the 80's. The fantastical elements were deliberately removed. I'm sure Adam leaving had something to do with it, but I believe I read somewhere that they wanted to tone them down and make them more 'realistic' spy thrillers. Journeyman Glen played into that, as did budget cuts.

    I must say they brought other aspects in, like better pacing, probably better action sequences, and interesting stories, but I too missed that OTT and almost 'wierd' (as you note) element that characterized earlier Bond films. Skyfall to a degree brought some of it back to me (MI6 underground HQ) but only slightly.

    MR was the end of an era in many ways.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I find the Glen films to move at a reasonably fast clip. FYEO is the slowest for me, because some of the action sequences are a bit dull (the underwater Neptune sequence for instance, or the breaking into Kristatos' depot).

    I'll say this though - some of Glen's films are predictable in their approach.
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