Military Coup d'Etat in Turkey [01:40 PM: Military Coup failed, 265 deaths]

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Comments

  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    SaintMark wrote: »
    comparing Merkel to Hitler shows such a lack of insight, mate.
    I wasn't comparing her to Hitler, mate. I simply stated that she is the most reckless leader since his rule.

    As for coming up with a solution, a very significant percentage of those 1.1 million migrants who arrived in Germany last year came from countries where the US and the EU did not make any kind of mess. Those people should never have been accepted. What if tomorrow 10000 Russians decided they would rather live in Germany and started walking towards their dream destination?

    Merkel created an environment that actively encouraged people from various parts of Africa and the Mid-East to come to Europe, even from several countries that are quite peaceful. There was absolutely nothing humane about what Merkel did. Her reckless behaviour caused thousands of people to drown (people who would have never started the journey towards Europe had Merkel not invited half the world's population) and will cause serious problems in Germany with long lasting effects.

    The good solution would have been closing the borders and helping countries like Lebanon and Jordan house the refugees.
  • Posts: 7,653
    SaintMark wrote: »
    comparing Merkel to Hitler shows such a lack of insight, mate.
    I wasn't comparing her to Hitler, mate. I simply stated that she is the most reckless leader since his rule.

    And that is different form comparing?

    And she personal was responsible for the mass attack in Koln was she?? You are so baseless with your accusations.

    You are easy to blame people, I find personally that Bush Jr more reckless than Hitler as he embarked on a series of wars that have cost us a ridiculous amount of money, destabilized a dangerous part of the world, started the road to illegal imprisonment on a Cuba, draconian laws aimed at taking away human rights. Basically we are currently dealing with the mess he started and have to find a solution.

  • Posts: 4,619
    SaintMark wrote: »
    And she personal was responsible for the mass attack in Koln was she??

    Of course she was. Everyone knew that the majority of the migrants who arrived last year were single men under 30. And it is obvious that a dangerously uneven sex ratio usually leads to stuff such as what happened in Cologne, especially when you have hundreds of thousands of single men under 30 who came from places where women are treated as second class citizens.

    Last summer I already knew this migration will lead to mass sexual harrasment and rape and if I knew it, it's safe to say the German leaders knew it too. Yet, they failed to do anything about it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    SaintMark wrote: »
    And she personal was responsible for the mass attack in Koln was she??

    Of course she was. Everyone knew that the majority of the migrants who arrived last year were single men under 30. And it is obvious that a dangerously uneven sex ratio usually leads to stuff such as what happened in Cologne, especially when you have hundreds of thousands of single men under 30 who came from places where women are treated as second class citizens.

    Last summer I already knew this migration will lead to mass sexual harrasment and rape and if I knew it, it's safe to say the German leaders knew it too. Yet, they failed to do anything about it.

    Precisely, and they tried to protect the Muslim rapists because 'it might give people the wrong idea of immigrants'. That's called accountability.
  • Posts: 7,653
    The two of you, PP & M4life, should go in politics especially with the leaving of UKIP's Farage there is a grand vacuum in the party that needs to be filled up with some more made up and based upon nothing whatsoever ideas.

    And closing up borders does make your country a lot safer, well in your dreams anyway, as all recent terrorist attacks were homegrown. Easy for ISIS to take credit it is called terrorism for the gullible.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,217
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Not really the same thing as they are not considered to be allies, whereas Turkey has been - in the past at least. I see your point though, I should have worded that a bit better.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    SaintMark wrote: »
    all recent terrorist attacks were homegrown.
    1. Nobody said closing the borders would solve all problems of Europe.
    2. I have always said that the main problem with the set of beliefs called islam is not that an extremely small percentage of its followers are terrorists, but that a very significant percentage of them hold beliefs that are completely incompatible with European values.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Reaction to a White European killer:

    "It's systematic, we need to address racism/mental health/gun control."

    Reaction to immigrant Muslim killer:

    "The motives aren't clear, let's not jump to conclusions, its an isolated incident."
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) very true
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Merkel created an environment that actively encouraged people from various parts of Africa and the Mid-East to come to Europe, even from several countries that are quite peaceful. There was absolutely nothing humane about what Merkel did. Her reckless behaviour caused thousands of people to drown (people who would have never started the journey towards Europe had Merkel not invited half the world's population) and will cause serious problems in Germany with long lasting effects.

    One of the main reasons I voted Brexit. She was out of order inviting every man and his dog into Europe on her own initiative without consulting the rest of the continent. But who is there in Europe to curb her? You may say Britain being out of the EU won't make any difference and I would agree but 'slapping Merkel down' wasn't on the ballot paper. The choices were 'Remain' which was a vote backing Cameron and his gutless negotiations or 'Leave' which was, for me at least partly, a rejection of being ruled by Merkel's whims which is where we are heading.
    SaintMark wrote: »

    And closing up borders does make your country a lot safer, well in your dreams anyway, as all recent terrorist attacks were homegrown.

    This is very true. But of course she only opened the floodgates 6 months ago. Give the guys a chance to plot an attack. Let's give it 5 or 10 years by which time they will have qualified for Schengen passports to go anywhere and see how many attacks there have been.

    And Cologne was most definitely not homegrown it was as a direct result of her open door policy.

    How many ISIS agents or mere sympathisers have entered Europe freely under the guise of being refugees? No sod knows. Am I the only one who finds that worrying?

    Probably most of the refugees are in genuine need but anyone who is telling me there is not one IS terrorist who is in Europe now as a direct result of Merkel's actions is being insanely optimistic/naive.

    I thought the EU was supposed to be a partnership of countries all having an equal say? Not in Angela's world. She's the guvnor round here and you'd better get used to it people.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Exactly. There are good dictators and bad dictators.

    By the way, slowly but surely, MI6 Community is becoming a sociopolitical message board. Political threads are seriously threatening to outnumber the Bond related ones.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited July 2016 Posts: 299

    This is very true. But of course she only opened the floodgates 6 months ago. Give the guys a chance to plot an attack. Let's give it 5 or 10 years by which time they will have qualified for Schengen passports to go anywhere and see how many attacks there have been.

    And Cologne was most definitely not homegrown it was as a direct result of her open door policy.

    How many ISIS agents or mere sympathisers have entered Europe freely under the guise of being refugees? No sod knows. Am I the only one who finds that worrying?

    Probably most of the refugees are in genuine need but anyone who is telling me there is not one IS terrorist who is in Europe now as a direct result of Merkel's actions is being insanely optimistic/naive.

    I thought the EU was supposed to be a partnership of countries all having an equal say? Not in Angela's world. She's the guvnor round here and you'd better get used to it people.

    Conveniently we forget to mention (as we forget so many things, don't we? :D ) that Merkel opened the borders for the peeps our chum Orban had already under his "protection" So a lot of these were already on Europe soil and could apply for asylum. Only Orban held these peeps like cattle in front of Budapest station to stir up hate and fear against them. Wonder why that part of the story doesn't figure in your tale of evil Merkel?

    Indeed, the EU is supposed to be a partnership. Only some of us don't show any interest to be anything but ugly schoolyard bullies.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 389
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Exactly. There are good dictators and bad dictators.

    By the way, slowly but surely, MI6 Community is becoming a sociopolitical message board. Political threads are seriously threatening to outnumber the Bond related ones.

    Very true but could it be that, god forbid, I know that this is blasphemy to some, but maybe, just maybe the world at the moment is more interesting than Mr Bond....... ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Exactly. There are good dictators and bad dictators.

    By the way, slowly but surely, MI6 Community is becoming a sociopolitical message board. Political threads are seriously threatening to outnumber the Bond related ones.

    Very true but could it be that, god forbid, I know that this is blasphemy to some, but maybe, just maybe the world at the moment is more interesting than Mr Bond....... ;)
    Indeed. Until EON get off their rears and give us some real news, I'd rather discuss politics than Hiddleswift's latest antics.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299

    As for coming up with a solution, a very significant percentage of those 1.1 million migrants who arrived in Germany last year came from countries where the US and the EU did not make any kind of mess.

    Roughly two years before things started heating up in Syria recruiting for Free Syrian Army started, by French, British and American players. I don't think you gonna find a part of this world where the f***ery wasn't at least in part instigated by exactly those players.


    Merkel created an environment that actively encouraged people from various parts of Africa and the Mid-East to come to Europe, even from several countries that are quite peaceful.

    What bollocks, these peeps are migrating for much longer than this Merkel is even in office now. Calais is the best proof, try sticking that to Merkel.


    There was absolutely nothing humane about what Merkel did. Her reckless behaviour caused thousands of people to drown (people who would have never started the journey towards Europe had Merkel not invited half the world's population) and will cause serious problems in Germany with long lasting effects.

    The good solution would have been closing the borders and helping countries like Lebanon and Jordan house the refugees.

    Yes, it would have been so much better to hold her nose like our splendid former PM did. Too bad for the little sods that they ended up Hungary, no? I bet they'd still sit there, those of them the local jackboot brigade didn't kick over the border.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Exactly. There are good dictators and bad dictators.

    By the way, slowly but surely, MI6 Community is becoming a sociopolitical message board. Political threads are seriously threatening to outnumber the Bond related ones.

    Very true but could it be that, god forbid, I know that this is blasphemy to some, but maybe, just maybe the world at the moment is more interesting than Mr Bond....... ;)


    Can't argue with that.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Campbell2 wrote: »

    Conveniently we forget to mention (as we forget so many things, don't we? :D ) that Merkel opened the borders for the peeps your chum Orban.

    I'm struggling to divine any coherence in the above sentence but I would be grateful if you could tell me on what basis you conclude that Orban is 'my chum' given I have never mentioned him on here?
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    Only Orban held these peeps like cattle in front of Budapest station to stir up hate and fear against them. Wonder why that part of the story doesn't figure in your tale of evil Merkel?

    Was it Orban who forced them to behave like animals in Cologne as well? Wonder why that part of the story doesn't figure in your tale of wonderful Merkel?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    The telltale signs were once Obama came out in support of the "democratically elected" government..

    Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.

    Exactly. There are good dictators and bad dictators.

    But the original quote only referred to those who aligned with American interests, regardless of whether they were good or bad. Turkey is considered on the whole to be relatively friendly to the East while the other two are not considered Allies. It wasn't intended as a sweeping generalisation.
  • Posts: 12,526
    And if Brussels gets their way? This nation will become a part of the EU! I can see a few more countries promising a referendum if certain parties gain power?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Sultan Erdogan is a fact now.

    Not that it is a surprise. The only people that could have prevented it, just watched and didn't care as long as their re-election chances are intact (looking at you Auntie Angela for instance).

    This election was a farce from the beginning. But the Brussel Autocrats rather bash the UK for Brexit all the time than caring about the one thing that really could throw Europe into the biggest crisis of our lifetime.

    Good job EU, good job. Shame on you once more.

    I'm just glad Switzerland is not and never will be a part of that lame duck construct.

  • Posts: 5,994
    Well, not as long as banks will be in power, anyway.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    Good job EU, good job. Shame on you once more.

    I'm just glad Switzerland is not and never will be a part of that lame duck construct.
    Do you really think the EU should have influenced a basically autonomous (and possibly even sort of democratic) referendum in a sovereign country? Turkey will not be part of the EU after this. Not with the Erdogan sultanate and soon the reinstatement of the death penalty. I won't miss them.

    As for Switzerland, realize you're tied to the EU either way. You're in the single market, except for financial services. And you're not part of the decision makers. But other than that... And you're also paying for it because you know you will have a definite plus on the bottom line, like it or not. And is it very unfriedly to point out that the bottom line is what usually counted for Switzerland?

    Same goes for all the members of the EEA. Same will go for the Brits after Brexit.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited April 2017 Posts: 9,020
    @j_w_pepper

    It's not the referendum that should have been prevented as such but everything that took place in the one, two years before.

    The capital mistake was that unfortunate refugees-deal with Turkey. That automatically took Germany hostage. Merkel was very short-sighted and naive.

    After that Erdogan could do whatever he wanted, no one even tried to oppose him.

    After the military coup-d'état things got much worse. And Erdogan was allowed to say and provoke how he pleased. All because Merkel was afraid the refugee-deal could blow up and her re-election would be in danger because of the AfD.

    I know things are more complicated than this but in the end it all boils down to some simple facts and errors made on side of the EU.

    That referendum is a farce with all that happened before. That whole business with Böhmermann and especially the Ministers trying to bring their propaganda to Germany? Clear signs that should have alarmed our leaders.

    As for Switzerland, of course we are a part of Europe, but not the EU. There we simply are constantly in bilateral talks (fights). That the EU doesn't respect our direct democracy has become very clear in recent years. But Erdogan is allowed to do and decide whatever he wants because he happens to be the leader of the most important NATO base on this continent.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Erdogan was always going to win this referendum honestly or not. His strength is the upsurge of Islamic sentiment and those voters got him saddled very firmly and made darn sure that Erdogan will change his democratic nation into an Islamic dictatorship.

    Don't blame the EU for this mess but the US with their stupid wars in the middle east which essentially de-stabilized the whole region in such a way that hardcore fanatic Muslims got their free propaganda against the West. A lot of Muslims lack any schooling and they are like the US citizens that believe that the earth is a few thousand years old, and they have easy acces to schooling. So in essence they believe anything propaganda tells them too. And we, EU & US, do them quite a few favors in bombing them and killing so much innocent people in our fight against the Taliban or ISIS.
    Having created this mess a lot of refugees are on the move and as such Turkey has the Sword of Damocles hanging over our heads with the huge numbers that want to flee to safety, which I agree is a natural respons. Turkey is not the most friendly of nations under the influence of Erdogan Islamic cronies and they will milk this refugee situation for all it is worth including the NATO bases. If we lose both than we are in for a mess. I do not think Merkel had any other choice but showing the kind face of Europe as Turkey, Syria & Russia showed clearly their inhuman face and used the refugees as a flaming sword.

    I am not sure what to do about the huge amounts of refugees, what is a human solution?- Turkey and Syria show the Muslim face which is not a human face as they essentialy do not care about their well being of families of their own faith.

    The world stands for a tough time ahead in which we must chose between humanity or nationalism and selfcenteredness.

    As for Swiss, they are about a neutral as the money in their banks roll, which has always been their first choice. And being part of the EU serves their economy hugely.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    @SaintMark
    I agree with most of what you write...except of course that the Swiss are definitely not "part of the EU". They even voted against being part of the European Economic Area (like Norway and Iceland are), but only obtained a similar status by negotiating tons of separate agreements with the EU. And yes, it obviously serves their economy, or they wouldn't have done that.
  • Posts: 7,653
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    @SaintMark
    I agree with most of what you write...except of course that the Swiss are definitely not "part of the EU". They even voted against being part of the European Economic Area (like Norway and Iceland are), but only obtained a similar status by negotiating tons of separate agreements with the EU. And yes, it obviously serves their economy, or they wouldn't have done that.

    My apologies for making Swiss part of the EU, they are not, but pay to be part of the open market and have to live up to quite a few regulations. But like Norway and Iceland they do profit from it even if they cannot vote in the European parliament.
  • Posts: 11,119
    SaintMark wrote: »
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    @SaintMark
    I agree with most of what you write...except of course that the Swiss are definitely not "part of the EU". They even voted against being part of the European Economic Area (like Norway and Iceland are), but only obtained a similar status by negotiating tons of separate agreements with the EU. And yes, it obviously serves their economy, or they wouldn't have done that.

    My apologies for making Swiss part of the EU, they are not, but pay to be part of the open market and have to live up to quite a few regulations. But like Norway and Iceland they do profit from it even if they cannot vote in the European parliament.

    Indeed.

    By the way, my stomach turns these days if I see Erdogan or Trump on the news. Both very autocratic, narcissist, leaders. If it wasn't for a very strong state of law and democracy in the USA, I'm afraid Trump would be even more similar to dictator Erdogan.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,041
    SaintMark wrote: »
    If it wasn't for a very strong state of law and democracy in the USA, I'm afraid Trump would be even more similar to dictator Erdogan.
    Stay tuned. I'll be relieved when Trump is either voted out or has lasted for eight years and then actually relinquishes the office. But not before. The way it goes, anything can still happen.
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