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On Her Majesty's Secret Service Could have been More Successful if Timothy Dalton Starred?

MI60071987892016MI60071987892016 Australia
in Bond Movies Posts: 40
On Her Majesty's Secret Service is one of the best movie but a flop on 1969, it could've been way more better if Timothy Dalton Plays?

Timothy Dalton would have accept it if They make On Her Majesty's Secret Service as a Prequel than a Confusing Sequel,
What do you think?
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Comments

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    After Butch Cassidy it was the highest grossing film of 1969.

    With Dalton it would have been awful.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think it's more spam. :(
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    As much as I love him as a Bond I think that Timothy Dalton would have been too young to play Bond in 1968 although I believe he was considered for the role either around this time or afterwards.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    Dalton would have been far too young then. He got cast at about the right time for him, unfortunately it just happened to coincide with MGM's legal issues.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    With all respect to Timothy Dalton, I am glad that he didn't accept the role in 1968. He would have been too young for Bond back then. When he was cast, if was the right time for him.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    He would have been too young. Full credit for him turning it down though for the reasons he did, would obviously have been a lucrative deal for him.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    As everyone else has pointed out, Dalton was way too young for the role of Bond. I never believed for one second that Dalton was considered for 007 back in the late 60s for OHMSS. It was just a bit of PR spin cooked up by the showman Cubby when Dalton was announced as the new Bond back in the 80s, especially as most people were expecting the Brozza to be announced. It's the sort of spin football managers also come out with when they don't get the player they were hoping for and have to dip back into the transfer market to buy the next best option; they imply it was really their first option all along.

    But to answer your question, OHMSS wouldn't have been as popular and successful as it was back in 69 with the wolffish-looking Dalton in the role. Dalton looked much better with another decade on his face and shoulders. Young actors were also not a box office attraction back then as they are now, mostly consigned to smaller supporting roles or appearing in Disney movies.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    bondsum wrote: »
    As everyone else has pointed out, Dalton was way too young for the role of Bond. I never believed for one second that Dalton was considered for 007 back in the late 60s for OHMSS. It was just a bit of PR spin cooked up by the showman Cubby when Dalton was announced as the new Bond back in the 80s, especially as most people were expecting the Brozza to be announced. It's the sort of spin football managers also come out with when they don't get the player they were hoping for and have to dip back into the transfer market to buy the next best option; they imply it was really their first option all along.

    But to answer your question, OHMSS wouldn't have been as popular and successful as it was back in 69 with the wolffish-looking Dalton in the role. Dalton looked much better with another decade on his face and shoulders. Young actors were also not a box office attraction back then as they are now, mostly consigned to smaller supporting roles or appearing in Disney movies.

    He was and turned it down, just as it was offered to Roger Moore who also turned it down.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited July 2016 Posts: 3,333
    There's no proof of that event ever having occurred, @tanaka123. Also, Cubby was not the sole producer then, Saltzman would never have gone with a young Dalton. I don't believe it in the slightest. Also, Roger Moore was contractually tied to Lew Grade throughout the 60s and early 70s. He too wasn't in a position to turn it down.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,418
    Dalton WAS offered the role for OHMSS and turned it down. He stated this himself, that he felt was too young and didn't want to be the first to come after Connery. He was also considered for OP too, and turned it down!
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,325
    bondsum wrote: »
    There's no proof of that event ever having occurred, @tanaka123. Also, Cubby was not the sole producer then, Saltzman would never have gone with a young Dalton. I don't believe it in the slightest. Also, Roger Moore was contractually tied to Lew Grade throughout the 60s and early 70s. He too wasn't in a position to turn it down.

    I think you're just cynical @bondsum like @Mathis1 says he was offered the role. Apparently Cubby wasn't keen intially on Roger and Harry was, but they still went with him.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    He said it himself therefore it must be true. Yes, you're right, everything anyone says must be 100% undisputed fact, despite there having been no mention of Dalton before the early 80s in the role, not once, anywhere. Also, why would Dalton turn down OP when he had no such weighty qualms about turning down TVs Charlie's Angels in 1979? It's ok, if you want to believe it but don't expect everyone to be suckered by it.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    bondsum wrote: »
    He said it himself therefore it must be true. Yes, you're right, everything anyone says must be 100% undisputed fact, despite there having been no mention of Dalton before the early 80s in the role, not once, anywhere. Also, why would Dalton turn down OP when he had no such weighty qualms about turning down TVs Charlie's Angels in 1979? It's ok, if you want to believe it but don't expect everyone to be suckered by it.

    Are you accusing Timothy Dalton and Cubby Broccoli of lying? You are bold, sir.
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,418
    bondsum, its only you!!
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    bondsum, its only you!!

    Maybe bondsum's really Alistair Campbell, Mathis1? Takes one to know one ...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm personally glad that Dalton (if true) turned down both OHMSS & OP. I think they both turned out just fine with Laz in the former and Rog in the latter.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Yes, I agree (if true - does that satisfy ya @bondsum ?), that they were better with Laz and Moore in those films.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondsum wrote: »
    He said it himself therefore it must be true. Yes, you're right, everything anyone says must be 100% undisputed fact, despite there having been no mention of Dalton before the early 80s in the role, not once, anywhere. Also, why would Dalton turn down OP when he had no such weighty qualms about turning down TVs Charlie's Angels in 1979? It's ok, if you want to believe it but don't expect everyone to be suckered by it.

    Well we've only got you countering it.

    Hmm....Cubby and Timothy Dalton's word or some nutter on the internet. Tough to decide which is the more credible authority on Timothy Dalton being cast as Bond but I'm veering towards you @bondsum with your years of producing Bond films and being a reputable actor of screen and stage.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Naomie Harris said prior to SF that she factually, 100% wasn't playing Moneypenny. So yes, it happens that actors lie for the film's PR.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Naomie Harris said prior to SF that she factually, 100% wasn't playing Moneypenny. So yes, it happens that actors lie for the film's PR.

    Not to mention the denials surrounding Waltz playing Blofeld. :)

    I would think the most likely scenario is that they asked Dalton to come in and test for the part and he turned down that offer.

  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,418
    Don't think thats quite the same. Harris and Waltz denied it so that there would be somr surprises for the film! Cubby, Dalton, and I believe Wilson have all said Dalton was asked and turned it down! And Dalton has still said so after his time as Bond was over. So why would he make it up?
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 16,162
    I always believed he was considered. The age he gives,24/25 does seem to conflict unless of course he actually was born in 1944.
    However, looking at the films Tim did during that time period; Wuthering Heights, Lion In Winter, Cromwell, his physical type was very much suited to period costume dramas. He pretty much looked like a college freshman then.
    Hypothetically, supposing we were all to be transported back to 1968, laptops and internet included and Tim was one of the candidates to replace Sean, I'd guess many of us might dismiss him as too young or not quite Bondian (the way I feel about Jamie Bell...sorry, wrong thread).
  • WSD77WSD77
    Posts: 25
    Has Dalton specifically mentioned turning down OHMSS by name? You see, I thought this had been debunked. As I recall, Dalton has said that he turned down Bond at the age of [whatever it was he said], and everybody scuttled off to see which film he was offered based on the age he gave. The trouble with this was that his 'internet age' and his real age were different [with a 2 year discrepancy] and using his real age the film he turned down would have been DAF...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I can't see it personally. Dalts in his mid 20's taking over from Connery? Laz had a certain swagger that was plausible but I just don't see Tim at that age being able to pull it off personally.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited July 2016 Posts: 16,162
    WSD77 wrote: »
    Has Dalton specifically mentioned turning down OHMSS by name? You see, I thought this had been debunked. As I recall, Dalton has said that he turned down Bond at the age of [whatever it was he said], and everybody scuttled off to see which film he was offered based on the age he gave. The trouble with this was that his 'internet age' and his real age were different [with a 2 year discrepancy] and using his real age the film he turned down would have been DAF...

    Yes. Years ago on The Arsenio Hall Show he was promoting a play he was in with Whoopi Goldberg and talked about it. He said it wasn't a direct offer, but he was asked about doing it. He felt it would have been foolish to take over from Sean, and the man who did- George Lazenby only ended up doing one film.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited July 2016 Posts: 1,053
    In a word, no.

    For many years I avoided watching OHMSS as I regarded it as the worst Bond film. Just two or three years ago my eyes were opened when I realised it for the masterpiece that it is. I'm just glad that George did played Bond.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    WSD77 wrote: »
    Has Dalton specifically mentioned turning down OHMSS by name? You see, I thought this had been debunked. As I recall, Dalton has said that he turned down Bond at the age of [whatever it was he said], and everybody scuttled off to see which film he was offered based on the age he gave. The trouble with this was that his 'internet age' and his real age were different [with a 2 year discrepancy] and using his real age the film he turned down would have been DAF...

    He was offered a screentest for OHMSS in 1968 which he turned down. To be fair he wasn't actually offered the role as such but was invited to screentest. He turned that offer down believing that he was too young to play Bond.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,917
    bondsum wrote: »
    As everyone else has pointed out, Dalton was way too young for the role of Bond. I never believed for one second that Dalton was considered for 007 back in the late 60s for OHMSS. It was just a bit of PR spin cooked up by the showman Cubby when Dalton was announced as the new Bond back in the 80s...

    It wouldn't be the first time Broccoli got creative with the facts--he also claimed Roger Moore was the original choice of Ian Fleming, who supposedly saw Moore in The Saint...but The Saint didn't air until after Connery was cast!
    I bet Charles Helfenstein's The Making of the Living Daylights has the final word on whether Dalton was offered OHMSS.

    Back to the topic: I don't think Dalton would had more success than Lazenby. Any lesser known actor who immediately followed Connery would be found wanting by the public, who has imprinted on Sean. Lazenby was something of a sacrificial lamb who paved the way for Moore's acceptance in the role. It also didn't hurt that Moore was an established and well-liked TV star, as Brosnan later was. Craig wasn't, but he had the good fortune to sign on when gritty, beefed-up superheroes were all the rage and he was ably suited to portray such a Bond. Back in 1969, no one had tired of Connery, and whoever replaced him was in for a rough ride.
    That said, OHMSS was still one of the top-grossing films of the year, and Lazenby received a fair number of good to grudging reviews. It was his walking away from the role that really harmed his reputation. Neither the the filmmakers and the public wanted to remember a one-off. Dalton was similar trashed for his two-film tenure--during the first years of Brosnan's reign it was common to see Dalton and his films derided as wretched failures.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited July 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Both Lazenby and Dalton were relative unknowns at the time. So, I don't think it would have been more successful.
  • MI60071987892016MI60071987892016 Australia
    Posts: 40
    Timothy Dalton is Perfect For The Role if On Her Majesty's Secret Service was a Prequel
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