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Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    Which I'm surprised at
    I'm not, many here seem rather biased against SP. Anyway, we'll see what comes next. LALD is still considered by many a very good film (me included).

    Still, I thought it would be much closer, as opposed to LALD walking it.

    I chalk this up to MI6 being a bit of a SP-bashing echo chamber. "Hey, all the kool kidz hate SPECTRE, guess I'd better hate it too." The herd instinct is powerful in the human species.

    I have noticed that in all aspects of life, wether it is about serious matters or not.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's not bias if you simply don't like a film. It has its moments, but overall, it does nothing for me.

    It wasn't specifically aimed at anyone, but seeing that some here can't even find one point in SP they like compared to any film makes it bias if you ask me. Especially compared to a film like DAF, which for all intents and purposes just isn't a very well made film. Sure you can prefer DAF over SP, but i.e. claiming DAF's pts is better then SP's is just... unbeleavable.

    Aye. Odd how some in these parts stake their MI6 identity on despising and ridiculing SP. Clearly SP is not a classic, but it's equally clear that it's not stink-bomb. SP is a mid-level Bond film that has many consolations and a few obvious weaknesses.

    Very true.

    SP has some big flaws but the three post GF Hamilton films not only have parts that are downright embarrassing but are very badly put together and riddled with laziness.

    The Lucia, SPECTRE meeting room and Mr White scenes alone are better than anything in those three films.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Spectre wiped the floor with Diamonds Are Forever for me. It did well against YOLT and I predict it will do much better as it goes on against later Moore (especially MWTGG, AVTAK, Brosnan's later ones) LALD is simply one of my favourite Moore 007 films.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's not bias if you simply don't like a film. It has its moments, but overall, it does nothing for me.

    Exactly. I can easily make it through viewings of all of the other Bond films, even DAF and DAD, but I struggle to make it through SP. There's just very little there that's worth the 2.5 hour effort it takes to view the film.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's not bias if you simply don't like a film. It has its moments, but overall, it does nothing for me.

    It wasn't specifically aimed at anyone, but seeing that some here can't even find one point in SP they like compared to any film makes it bias if you ask me. Especially compared to a film like DAF, which for all intents and purposes just isn't a very well made film. Sure you can prefer DAF over SP, but i.e. claiming DAF's pts is better then SP's is just... unbeleavable.

    Aye. Odd how some in these parts stake their MI6 identity on despising and ridiculing SP. Clearly SP is not a classic, but it's equally clear that it's not stink-bomb. SP is a mid-level Bond film that has many consolations and a few obvious weaknesses.

    Very true.

    SP has some big flaws but the three post GF Hamilton films not only have parts that are downright embarrassing but are very badly put together and riddled with laziness.

    The Lucia, SPECTRE meeting room and Mr White scenes alone are better than anything in those three films.

    Agreed. And I'm also quite partial to the Hinx fight, the faded charm of L'Americain in Tangier, and the underrated Denbigh.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You can try to analyze it anyway you want or claim it's some sort of bias or agenda, but from the beginning I have not wavered. I find SP to be the dullest and least enjoyable film in the series. I can appreciate it slightly more than I used to, but that isn't saying much. As I've stated before, for me what sets it below MR, DAD and several of the other almost universally agreed upon clunkers is that in all of those others, despite some bits that are downright dreadful, there are scenes within that I absolutely enjoy and look forward to with every viewing. There is no such moment in SP. The closest I can come up with is the interaction between Bond and Mr. White, and Blofeld's entrance into the SPECTRE meeting. But those are hardly great Bondian moments. I have no agenda, I am not intentionally echoing anyone else, that is my reaction. You can disagree, but don't try to give me some insane motivation because it fits some paradigm you've created. This is not aimed at anyone specific, just the overall theme of this last page of this thread, but @Perilagu_Khan , at 53 years of age I'm hardly worried about what "the kool kidz" are into. Just understand not everyone agrees with your assessments. Some of us simply find SP to be a shitty Bond film. I've definitely given it more than enough chances.

    Your allegiance to the Kool Kidz may not be at issue, but your critical faculties are.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited August 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You can try to analyze it anyway you want or claim it's some sort of bias or agenda, but from the beginning I have not wavered. I find SP to be the dullest and least enjoyable film in the series. I can appreciate it slightly more than I used to, but that isn't saying much. As I've stated before, for me what sets it below MR, DAD and several of the other almost universally agreed upon clunkers is that in all of those others, despite some bits that are downright dreadful, there are scenes within that I absolutely enjoy and look forward to with every viewing. There is no such moment in SP. The closest I can come up with is the interaction between Bond and Mr. White, and Blofeld's entrance into the SPECTRE meeting. But those are hardly great Bondian moments. I have no agenda, I am not intentionally echoing anyone else, that is my reaction. You can disagree, but don't try to give me some insane motivation because it fits some paradigm you've created. This is not aimed at anyone specific, just the overall theme of this last page of this thread, but @Perilagu_Khan , at 53 years of age I'm hardly worried about what "the kool kidz" are into. Just understand not everyone agrees with your assessments. Some of us simply find SP to be a shitty Bond film. I've definitely given it more than enough chances.

    Your allegiance to the Kool Kidz may not be at issue, but your critical faculties are.

    =))

    You present your case eloquently enough Birdleson but to say that SP is worse than DAD on any level is utter insanity.

    Except the score obviously.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Whoa, a battle about SP?

    I'm just going to offer my polite opinion and say that SP, at least for me, ranks as the second best of the Craig Bonds. Only CR does better in my book. SF is the one I'd put down as the overrated piece of art.

    That said, peace out, pork out, party out... I don't care, but guys, come on, stop measuring penises in a cosy thread like this, please.

    Your friendly neighbourhood mod.
  • SoundofthesinnersSoundofthesinners
    Posts: 3,236
    It always gets like this after a new film is released. Some people love it, some people thought it was just okay, some hated it. People are baffled by each other's opinions, everyone gets pissed off. Silliness.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You guys can't seem to discuss these things without going personal. I'm out.
    Hey man, I respect your dislike of SP. You feel about SP the way I feel about SF, but the bottom line is that we are all fans of the body of work. Getting personal over likes & dislikes of individual entries is plain stupid.
    Oh wait- did I just get personal there?

    :-? :))
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    PTS: SP

    Title track: LALD

    Title credits: SP

    Main villain: LALD

    Main Bond Girl: LALD

    Henchman: LALD

    Plot: LALD

    Dialogue: LALD

    Score: LALD

    Settings: LALD

    Action: LALD

    Humour: LALD

    Cinematography: SP

    Benign Bizarre: LALD

    Suspense: SP

    Minor Characters: SP

    Glamour: SP

    Bond performance: LALD

    LALD wins.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I know quite a few people who are not hardcore Bond fans, just casual watchers who have said it is the worst one they have seen and wanted to leave the cinema. I think the votes are just a reflection of a poor product.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2016 Posts: 15,718
    It's getting annoying that when people rank certain Bond films higher than other Bond films, they are attacked with the following 'but there's no way that DAD/LALD/DAF/TND are better than SF/SP/OHMSS!!!'. Aren't these sort of threads all about personal preferences? Someone liking DAD or MR better than other films doesn't mean that SP is shit and DAD is good, just that he/she enjoys one over the other. If everyone ranked the films by cinematic qualities instead of personal preferences it would be very boring.
  • NickGNickG UK
    Posts: 10
    I can't believe so many of you like LALD. It's like the Simon Templar playing James Bond. Thank god we eventually got TSWLM!

    Live and Let Die vs. Spectre

    PTS: SP
    Title track: LALD
    Title credits: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: LALD
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: LALD
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: LALD
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    14:4 IN FAVOUR OF SPECTRE
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    It's getting annoying that when people rank certain Bond films higher than other Bond films, they are attacked with the following 'but there's no way that DAD/LALD/DAF/TND are better than SF/SP/OHMSS!!!'. Aren't these sort of threads all about personal preferences? Someone liking DAD or MR better than other films doesn't mean that SP is shit and DAD is good, just that he/she enjoys one over the other. If everyone ranked the films by cinematic qualities instead of personal preferences it would be very boring.

    Yes, you're right. It's all relative. Nothing is better or worse than anything else. Li'l Wayne, Beethoven--what's the difference?

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2016 Posts: 15,718
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    It's getting annoying that when people rank certain Bond films higher than other Bond films, they are attacked with the following 'but there's no way that DAD/LALD/DAF/TND are better than SF/SP/OHMSS!!!'. Aren't these sort of threads all about personal preferences? Someone liking DAD or MR better than other films doesn't mean that SP is shit and DAD is good, just that he/she enjoys one over the other. If everyone ranked the films by cinematic qualities instead of personal preferences it would be very boring.

    Yes, you're right. It's all relative. Nothing is better or worse than anything else. Li'l Wayne, Beethoven--what's the difference?

    Where did I say nothing is better than anything else? DAD is an awful film, yet I like it more than a lot of other films. In my personal preferences I'd rank DAD above SF, quality wise I rank SF higher than DAD.

    What I am saying is when people rank the films in such threads they are doing it due to personal preference. It would be so boring if everyone ranked everything on quality basis. This is what some are not understanding here. Everyone mostly agrees on 'better' or 'worse'. The excitement is in the 'personal preferences' ranking. I go on MI6 to see people defend DAD, TWINE, MR, DAF, QOS because they like those films. I'm not interested in endless 'DAD is such a badly made film compared to CR' because 99% of members here would agree with that statement, which makes discussion very boring.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    It's getting annoying that when people rank certain Bond films higher than other Bond films, they are attacked with the following 'but there's no way that DAD/LALD/DAF/TND are better than SF/SP/OHMSS!!!'. Aren't these sort of threads all about personal preferences? Someone liking DAD or MR better than other films doesn't mean that SP is shit and DAD is good, just that he/she enjoys one over the other. If everyone ranked the films by cinematic qualities instead of personal preferences it would be very boring.

    Yes, you're right. It's all relative. Nothing is better or worse than anything else. Li'l Wayne, Beethoven--what's the difference?

    Where did I say nothing is better than anything else? DAD is an awful film, yet I like it more than a lot of other films. In my personal preferences I'd rank DAD above SF, quality wise I rank SF higher than DAD.

    What I am saying is when people rank the films in such threads they are doing it due to personal preference. It would be so boring if everyone ranked everything on quality basis. This is what some are not understanding here. Everyone mostly agrees on 'better' or 'worse'. The excitement is in the 'personal preferences' ranking. I go on MI6 to see people defend DAD, TWINE, MR, DAF, QOS because they like those films. I'm not interested in endless 'DAD is such a badly made film compared to CR' because 99% of members here would agree with that statement, which makes discussion very boring.

    I would say that while some rank according to preference, others rank according to quality. To assure the standards do not differ, the object of the ranking should be specified in the original post and title.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2016 Posts: 15,718
    If everyone ranks based on quality, this thread is factually useless and should be closed, because it's obvious that almost no-one will vote for TMWTGG, AVTAK, DAD against SP. What's the point in this thread if we know for a fact that DAD will take a beating versus SP? Where's the fun in any ranking thread like this if everyone puts DAD last? I want to know @ClarkDevlin's personal taste, or @Murdock's, @Creasy47s, @DarthDimi's or @bondjames. Where's the fun in discussing everything on quality? No point talking about anything anymore then, as we know 99% will rank TMWTGG, DAF, DAD, AVTAK at the bottom and CR/OHMSS/FRWL/SF at the top.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I'm such a cliché - DAF, GG and DAD are my bottom three, and FRWL, OHMSS and CR are my top three.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    Is that your personal top 3, or your quality top 3?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @royale65, 'Grey Gardens' isn't a Bond film.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    Gigi?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Both - it's a mixture @vzok

    Aw, @Creasy47, you sure it isn't?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    royale65 wrote: »
    Both - it's a mixture @vzok

    Aw, @Creasy47, you sure it isn't?

    It very well may be.

    In all seriousness, what is GG?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    The Man With The Golden Gun
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    If everyone ranks based on quality, this thread is factually useless and should be closed, because it's obvious that almost no-one will vote for TMWTGG, AVTAK, DAD against SP. What's the point in this thread if we know for a fact that DAD will take a beating versus SP? Where's the fun in any ranking thread like this if everyone puts DAD last? I want to know @ClarkDevlin's personal taste, or @Murdock's, @Creasy47s, @DarthDimi's or @bondjames. Where's the fun in discussing everything on quality? No point talking about anything anymore then, as we know 99% will rank TMWTGG, DAF, DAD, AVTAK at the bottom and CR/OHMSS/FRWL/SF at the top.

    We know nothing of the sort. The ability to assess quality is hardly widely distributed. It's always amusing to see certain people vainly strive to bolster up some piece of schlock or tear down something magnificent.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2016 Posts: 15,718
    How many people do you honestly think will tear down SP against DAD or AVTAK? I must have hit a nerve because you seem to not want to see the big picture here.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I love Spectre. It's far superior to Die Another Day which only recently became the very worst on my list.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But you can enter into discourse without being a prig, some can't.
    Thank you. I try to be my most professional but sometimes I have been guilty of getting annoyed. :P

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited August 2016 Posts: 15,423
    Spectre for me in comparison with LALD. I love elegance and exotic elements in my Bond film. The first two Moore's, while loving the characterization of Bond in them, don't really display elegance but instead the casualness of the 70s outside the field of "aristocracy", if you catch my drift. I sort of have the same problem with YOLT as well as AVTAK.
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