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The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @Ludovico, who knows what he's doing at this point. I don't think half of it is planned, and most of it is instinctive. Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    All I know for sure is that he is running an asymmetric campaign. He did that during the primaries and he is doing it again, but in a different fashion. His methods remain a mystery to me. At the moment there is a concerted pile-on, and it looks to me like he is ducking and taking it on the chin, Ali style to Foreman.

    I don't know if a rope-a-dope is coming, but I do know that those writing him off in August are completely off the mark. There has been 2.5 wks of bad news. We have almost 9 wks left. A lot can change in that time and people will only focus on this again after the Olympics and Labour Day.

    Again, I have no clue what his strategy is, but I do know it's coming together and there will be a strong push in Sep/Oct.
  • TroyTroy
    edited August 2016 Posts: 342
    FLeiter wrote: »
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    I think I'll bow out of this discussion with that prejudgement. I have never been in America but everywhere in Europe the indigenous population are in threat of being wiped out, without a single shot being fired.

    Don't let the door hit where you oughta sit. You've "never been in America" but you're going to lecture us about "the concept of white American identity"? If this wasn't a serious subject you'd have me on the floor laughing. Get outta here, you working end of a donkey's feces factory!

    Any white American who denies there is a "white identity" in this country is ignoring facts and history. Look at what was done to the original inhabitants who believed the land belonged to no one. White people shot many of them, moved into the neighborhood in droves, exploited the land, stripped them of their heritage and forced them into controlled reservations in the worst possible areas. Perhaps you heard 'The only good Indian is a dead Indian''.

    Or do you think the people we brought over here in chains from Africa were treated in an any less harsh manner. They were regarded as livestock, bought and sold in open markets. You know the narrative or perhaps you don't. The truth in history depends on who is writing it. There is not one white person in the U.S. who has not benefited greatly by the actions of others who felt that being a white American makes you the privileged one. Think not...would you prefer to be a 25 year old African American man in Milwaukee or Ferguson or Mobile?

    @Scaramanga spoke a truth that is hard for many of us find hard to face. Sometimes the truth is discovered by someone who looks from the outside and doesn't have a dog in the fight. You don't have to be a parent to have an opinion on child-rearing and corporal punishment. I appreciate your opinion @Scaramanga, so don't bow out now. I'll get that swinging door for you.


    I cannot defend any of the actions of 'white' people in North America.

    However, this is not a simple matter.

    It is worth remembering that the slave trade started through the Africans themselves selling their slaves to the 'white' men. And 'white' men were active in trying to abolish slavery in the late 18th and 19th centuries, often opposed by non-'white' Africans.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, who knows what he's doing at this point. I don't think half of it is planned, and most of it is instinctive. Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    All I know for sure is that he is running an asymmetric campaign. He did that during the primaries and he is doing it again, but in a different fashion. His methods remain a mystery to me. At the moment there is a concerted pile-on, and it looks to me like he is ducking and taking it on the chin, Ali style to Foreman.

    I don't know if a rope-a-dope is coming, but I do know that those writing him off in August are completely off the mark. There has been 2.5 wks of bad news. We have almost 9 wks left. A lot can change in that time and people will only focus on this again after the Olympics and Labour Day.

    Again, I have no clue what his strategy is, but I do know it's coming together and there will be a strong push in Sep/Oct.

    Asymmetric campaign that's how it's called? I thought the right term was demagogic. And I'm very skeptical regarding the boxing analogy. Trump is not the Ali of politics. Or business for that matter.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, who knows what he's doing at this point. I don't think half of it is planned, and most of it is instinctive. Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    All I know for sure is that he is running an asymmetric campaign. He did that during the primaries and he is doing it again, but in a different fashion. His methods remain a mystery to me. At the moment there is a concerted pile-on, and it looks to me like he is ducking and taking it on the chin, Ali style to Foreman.

    I don't know if a rope-a-dope is coming, but I do know that those writing him off in August are completely off the mark. There has been 2.5 wks of bad news. We have almost 9 wks left. A lot can change in that time and people will only focus on this again after the Olympics and Labour Day.

    Again, I have no clue what his strategy is, but I do know it's coming together and there will be a strong push in Sep/Oct.

    Asymmetric campaign that's how it's called? I thought the right term was demagogic. And I'm very skeptical regarding the boxing analogy. Trump is not the Ali of politics. Or business for that matter.
    As I said yesterday, most people have firmly made up their minds on this thread.

    Watch the situation unfold over the next two months. Trump will have to spend money in order to turn around the polls and the media narrative. I expect him to start doing that shortly. They have held back for a reason, and will unload for the final round. The current polls reflect the nearly 15:1 spending differential between Clinton/Trump.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stefan-hankin/can-media-spending-make-a_b_11427782.html
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    edited August 2016 Posts: 3,566
    @FLeiter: I don't need a history lesson from you, thank you very much. I was asking @scaramanga what he meant by using that particular phrase in connection with this topic. He still hasn't answered the question, only admitted that he has never been in the USA so he really can't have any actual knowledge of the situation here, only a theoretical belief. @DarthDimi, @troy, et al: yes, Native American genocide, slavery and so forth. All of which make @scary's position pretty ludicrous. @bondjames, you "have no clue" what Trump's strategy is but you're sure it's HUUUUUUUGE. Please don't be surprised that so many of us see you as a Trump booster -- you keep making excuses for him, and too many of us that are actually going to be voting in this election find him inexcusable. @Ludovico, you used the common phrase, "money talks" awhile back. I'll quote Bob Dylan in response (from his song, "It's Alright Ma (I'm Only Bleeding)") "Money doesn't talk, it swears." Carry on, all...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    @bondjames, you "have no clue" what his strategy is but you're sure it's HUUUUUUUGE. Please don't be surprised that so many of us see you as a Trump booster -- you keep making excuses for him, and too many of us that are actually going to be voting in this election find him inexcusable.
    I'm fully aware of what your views are on Trump @BeatlesSansEarmuffs. You've made them quite clear throughout this thread. I don't recall saying "HUUUUUUUGE" (not sure if I got as many U's in there as you did) but thanks for attempting to paraphrase my views.

    I said the polls will tighten and the Trump strategy will come together. I have also said that this election will likely be close (much closer than the current polls). Furthermore, I've also said that ignoring the Trump voter's concerns and attacking the messenger is a potential mistake. Finally, I've said that the debates will be crucial and pivotal. I stand by all statements.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Troy wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    I think I'll bow out of this discussion with that prejudgement. I have never been in America but everywhere in Europe the indigenous population are in threat of being wiped out, without a single shot being fired.

    Don't let the door hit where you oughta sit. You've "never been in America" but you're going to lecture us about "the concept of white American identity"? If this wasn't a serious subject you'd have me on the floor laughing. Get outta here, you working end of a donkey's feces factory!

    Any white American who denies there is a "white identity" in this country is ignoring facts and history. Look at what was done to the original inhabitants who believed the land belonged to no one. White people shot many of them, moved into the neighborhood in droves, exploited the land, stripped them of their heritage and forced them into controlled reservations in the worst possible areas. Perhaps you heard 'The only good Indian is a dead Indian''.

    Or do you think the people we brought over here in chains from Africa were treated in an any less harsh manner. They were regarded as livestock, bought and sold in open markets. You know the narrative or perhaps you don't. The truth in history depends on who is writing it. There is not one white person in the U.S. who has not benefited greatly by the actions of others who felt that being a white American makes you the privileged one. Think not...would you prefer to be a 25 year old African American man in Milwaukee or Ferguson or Mobile?

    @Scaramanga spoke a truth that is hard for many of us find hard to face. Sometimes the truth is discovered by someone who looks from the outside and doesn't have a dog in the fight. You don't have to be a parent to have an opinion on child-rearing and corporal punishment. I appreciate your opinion @Scaramanga, so don't bow out now. I'll get that swinging door for you.


    I cannot defend any of the actions of 'white' people in North America.

    However, this is not a simple matter.

    It is worth remembering that the slave trade started through the Africans themselves selling their slaves to the 'white' men. And 'white' men were active in trying to abolish slavery in the late 18th and 19th centuries, often opposed by non-'white' Africans.

    It was the Arabs who started the export of African slaves.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, who knows what he's doing at this point. I don't think half of it is planned, and most of it is instinctive. Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    All I know for sure is that he is running an asymmetric campaign. He did that during the primaries and he is doing it again, but in a different fashion. His methods remain a mystery to me. At the moment there is a concerted pile-on, and it looks to me like he is ducking and taking it on the chin, Ali style to Foreman.

    I don't know if a rope-a-dope is coming, but I do know that those writing him off in August are completely off the mark. There has been 2.5 wks of bad news. We have almost 9 wks left. A lot can change in that time and people will only focus on this again after the Olympics and Labour Day.

    Again, I have no clue what his strategy is, but I do know it's coming together and there will be a strong push in Sep/Oct.

    On november 8th we can finally debunk all this secretive talk about how great the Trump campaign is. Or in your words, how 'unusual, yet wonderfully asymmetric' Trump's campaign is.

    A lot can happen in less than 3 months yes. I mentioned the hacks, which you fail to address, but which could hurt Clinton. Still, I have a feeling your love for outsider phenomena is slightly ill-founded.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Ludovico, who knows what he's doing at this point. I don't think half of it is planned, and most of it is instinctive. Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    All I know for sure is that he is running an asymmetric campaign. He did that during the primaries and he is doing it again, but in a different fashion. His methods remain a mystery to me. At the moment there is a concerted pile-on, and it looks to me like he is ducking and taking it on the chin, Ali style to Foreman.

    I don't know if a rope-a-dope is coming, but I do know that those writing him off in August are completely off the mark. There has been 2.5 wks of bad news. We have almost 9 wks left. A lot can change in that time and people will only focus on this again after the Olympics and Labour Day.

    Again, I have no clue what his strategy is, but I do know it's coming together and there will be a strong push in Sep/Oct.

    On november 8th we can finally debunk all this secretive talk about how great the Trump campaign is. Or in your words, how 'unusual, yet wonderfully asymmetric' Trump's campaign is.

    A lot can happen in less than 3 months yes. I mentioned the hacks, which you fail to address, but which could hurt Clinton. Still, I have a feeling your love for outsider phenomena is slightly ill-founded.
    No? Really? I'd have never guessed.

    I never said his campaign was great. I think he achieved a very impressive result in the primaries. In fact, I think he's been running a substandard campaign since the convention and has fallen for a lot of the traps set for him. I have said as much. I did not say 'wonderfully' asymmetric. That adjective is yours. However it is an asymmetric campaign.

    Interesting emotions being exposed again.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,125
    The thing is what made Trump successful during the primaries is borderline irrelevant to the election. He was preaching to the converts.
  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    Posts: 233
    If Trump losses this election, which is currently looking likely, the establishment should nevertheless see his popularity as a desperate wake up call. Just like the Brexit vote in the UK, the rise of Trump has highlighted just how angry and disenfranchised people are feeling right now. Millions of voters are prepared to commit an insane act of self-harm, so dissatisfied are they with the status quo. Worrying times.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited August 2016 Posts: 11,119
    JawsIsAlive wrote: »
    If Trump losses this election, which is currently looking likely, the establishment should nevertheless see his popularity as a desperate wake up call. Just like the Brexit vote in the UK, the rise of Trump has highlighted just how angry and disenfranchised people are feeling right now. Millions of voters are prepared to commit an insane act of self-harm, so dissatisfied are they with the status quo. Worrying times.

    In all honesty.....Hillary Clinton completely overhauled her party platform to accomodate to someone who's more left-wing than her: Bernie Sanders. So by saying that the establishment is 'not waking up' is starting to sound a bit flat.

    I therefore also would like to...change the ballgame a bit. An wake-up call to all populists so to say. A question to all of them, from Trump to Wilders: WHEN will YOU be happy in co-operating a bit to govern a country? Or is the only thing you care of.....speeding up the decline of a nation??

    I've had it to here with all these 'wake-up calls'. Wake-up calls should count for everyone in a nation, for everyone who's putting a signature under a mortgage or phone contract, and for everyone who's running for president.
  • Scaramanga12Scaramanga12
    Posts: 562
    @Gustav_Graves

    Wilders is a hero from what I can make out. You should be proud.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited August 2016 Posts: 12,480
    I pretty much agree with your statement, @JawsIsAlive.

    Trump finished a set piece (teleprompter, tried to stick to planned speech), not so much going off on a tangent. So he wasn't himself, really.
    One thing he did say is that we should have just taken all the oil from Iraq. Although he's against invading countries any more. (Keep in mind he consistently lies about what he has said in the past regarding the Iraq War.)
    Anyway, here is one twitter comment I enjoyed and some the comments underneath it made me laugh ("road runner" & more).
  • FLeiterFLeiter
    Posts: 315
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    Wilders is a hero from what I can make out. You should be proud.
    Welcome back. I don't know if your comment qualifies as a 'lecture' to the internet tuffy, because his attention span is being taxed.
    32882-Sleeping-In-Class-Photo-00015aw1.gif
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Scaramanga12 wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves

    Wilders is a hero from what I can make out. You should be proud.

    Wilders divides, he does not unite. One of the prime qualities a politician should have, is uniting people. Wilders lacks that quality. He's the Dutch 'Trump'. Perfect in (ab)using the media for his own marketing strengths, perfect in letting the fears, angers and worries of people boil up to the surface, perfect in chanting "Wille jullie meer of minder Marrokkanen???" ("Do you want to have more or less Moroccans??") in front of his audience. But a total lunatic when it comes to real solutions.

    I am disgusted and ashamed for men like Geert Wilders. There you have it.
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    JawsIsAlive wrote: »
    If Trump losses this election, which is currently looking likely, the establishment should nevertheless see his popularity as a desperate wake up call. Just like the Brexit vote in the UK, the rise of Trump has highlighted just how angry and disenfranchised people are feeling right now. Millions of voters are prepared to commit an insane act of self-harm, so dissatisfied are they with the status quo. Worrying times.

    I would have to agree.

    I do understand the anger of the American voter this time around. The problem is that the anger that's reasonable and directed at the failings of the federal government over the past however many years has been overshadowed, and in fact co-opted, by the anger that's been stoked by the orange buffoon running for president. He's taken that anger and made it so that nobody can, or is really willing to, distinguish it from the much uglier anger and hatred that Trump has been stoking that manifests itself in the form of racism, bigotry, and violence.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    True, @Dalton.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Just a quick comparison of some (not many, this is not too long) of Trump's statements on Egypt and Libya, compared to his recent statement (opposite what he said in the past). These are not the only statements.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And here is more info. You can skip to whichever issue/statement from Trump you'd like to see the background/fact check on:
    http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/aug/15/donald-trumps-speech-about-fighting-radical-islami/
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I hate America, and I hate the rest of the western world, so I am voting for TRUMP!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, @chrisisall; in a nutshell: a suicidal death wish, dragging our country down the drain and threatening the very existence of civilization.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Yep.
    But I have faith that particular ape will lose...
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Damn Dirty Trumps!
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    bondjames wrote: »
    Having said that, he has not used his cash hoard, and that tells me something.

    Perhaps he thinks he can keep all the unused campaign contributions once all the electoral votes are in.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I hate America, and I hate the rest of the western world, so I am voting for TRUMP!

    Why don't you emigrate to China or Russia? You don't have to vote there at all. There are no 'rigged elections' there. There is all peace and fairness there.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Um, Gustav...not wanting to speak for somebody else, or misinterpret anybody's meaning here...but I think @chrisisall was kidding.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BeatlesSansEarmuffs wrote: »
    Um, Gustav...not wanting to speak for somebody else, or misinterpret anybody's meaning here...but I think @chrisisall was kidding.

    You beat me to it, Beatles. It's quite obvious that chris is having a facetious moment, @Gustav_Graves, so no offense intended.

    I think in our own ways we're all reacting to frustration and worry over where the world is headed at this point, beyond this election but certainly including it.
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,997
    De Gaulle was right : "Old age is a shipwreck" :

    nydailynews.com/news/politics/rudy-giuliani-appears-forget-9-11-happened-article-1.2752166

    And he also forgot about that :

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    From a conservative:
This discussion has been closed.