Controversial opinions about Bond films

1226227229231232707

Comments

  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @bondjames. Yeah I struggle to see Brosnan coming close to equalling Craig in that scene too. I'm not sure even Connery would have been as good and that's saying something.
    Indeed. The closest we got to Connery in distress was the rack in TB, and I wasn't all that impressed tbh. Moore was much better in the centrifuge in MR.

    Moore was helped a bit I think by the wind machine pulling back his face.
    Very true. After it was over he was very impressive though. Some of his best work.

    Yes, he sells that well.
  • Posts: 19,339
    The way Moore came out of the capsule and couldnt even speak,and looked distressed and messy was brilliant..the first time i had seen MooreBond REALLY in trouble and seriously worried.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    He was worried about his hairdo.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene (probably not helped by the fact I don't think a lot of Della at present) and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.

    But, there are always scenes in any Bond film that could have been done better. I look at the whole as opposed to one scene. And acting is an interpretation. We don't know what took place. Maybe Glen told Dalton it was a perfect take and that's it. Glen and Dalton butted heads, which does not help when you are making a film under extreme pressure amidst studio politics.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.
    I personally was quite disappointed with this scene from the first instance I saw it. I understand what Dalton was trying to do here, but I still believe Bond should have been a bit more composed & less outwardly obvious. I put this on par with the pain face from his successor.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.

    But, there are always scenes in any Bond film that could have been done better. I look at the whole as opposed to one scene. And acting is an interpretation. We don't know what took place. Maybe Glen told Dalton it was a perfect take and that's it. Glen and Dalton butted heads, which does not help when you are making a film under extreme pressure amidst studio politics.

    I agree there. I think it was also the case with Brosnan in TWINE. Obviously Apted had told him his performance in certain scenes was fine.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.

    But, there are always scenes in any Bond film that could have been done better. I look at the whole as opposed to one scene. And acting is an interpretation. We don't know what took place. Maybe Glen told Dalton it was a perfect take and that's it. Glen and Dalton butted heads, which does not help when you are making a film under extreme pressure amidst studio politics.

    I agree there. I think it was also the case with Brosnan in TWINE. Obviously Apted had told him his performance in certain scenes was fine.
    I agree, but only to an extent. I expect the 'filmic' Bond to always maintain an element of detached reserve, even in emotionally distressing scenes. I think Craig truly nailed it with CR and that's why his performance in that film is so highly regarded by many.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @bondjames. Yeah I struggle to see Brosnan coming close to equalling Craig in that scene too. I'm not sure even Connery would have been as good and that's saying something.
    Indeed. The closest we got to Connery in distress was the rack in TB, and I wasn't all that impressed tbh. Moore was much better in the centrifuge in MR.

    Moore was helped a bit I think by the wind machine pulling back his face.
    Very true. After it was over he was very impressive though. Some of his best work.

    I don't think that was acting. After they shut off the wind machine they just filmed poor Rog trying to get off the set. ;)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.

    But, there are always scenes in any Bond film that could have been done better. I look at the whole as opposed to one scene. And acting is an interpretation. We don't know what took place. Maybe Glen told Dalton it was a perfect take and that's it. Glen and Dalton butted heads, which does not help when you are making a film under extreme pressure amidst studio politics.

    I agree there. I think it was also the case with Brosnan in TWINE. Obviously Apted had told him his performance in certain scenes was fine.

    Glad to know @bain123. We are all on the same side. How many years have we been on this forum? That is a testament to the series. With Batman, I would be done in a week once I said what I need to.

    Bond is like religion and it has a sectarian divide.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

    I'm talking about ability, though, not style. Actors have been delivering all manner of performances for decades.

    As others have said, Dalton was guilty over egging it at times, this being a reasonable example.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    @bondjames. Yeah I struggle to see Brosnan coming close to equalling Craig in that scene too. I'm not sure even Connery would have been as good and that's saying something.
    Indeed. The closest we got to Connery in distress was the rack in TB, and I wasn't all that impressed tbh. Moore was much better in the centrifuge in MR.

    Moore was helped a bit I think by the wind machine pulling back his face.
    Very true. After it was over he was very impressive though. Some of his best work.

    I don't think that was acting. After they shut off the wind machine they just filmed poor Rog trying to get off the set. ;)
    Ha ha. In all seriousness, I wish Moore had shown more of his range with Bond. He could do it, but never really was called upon. The same applies to Connery. They were unflappable supermen of sorts back then, at least in terms of being invulnerable.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I too don't really feel much when watching that scene and, for a while now, its one I've felt doesn't quite convince. You can see Dalton trying to sell it.
    I personally was quite disappointed with this scene from the first instance I saw it. I understand what Dalton was trying to do here, but I still believe Bond should have been a bit more composed & less outwardly obvious. I put this on par with the pain face from his successor.

    As Dalton said, he would have done things differently. What matters is that he was splendid when he meets Sanchez for the first time.

    However, with Della, this was to show Bond was shocked, as this is the last thing he was expecting on Felix's wedding night. It was an exceptional situation. Bond is human and everyone has a different emotional reaction. Maybe it was to show how close he and Felix were, as we must remember Felix was rarely seen after LALD.



    So, there were all sorts of factors.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

    I'm talking about ability, though, not style. Actors have been delivering all manner of performances for decades.

    As others have said, Dalton was guilty over egging it at times, this being a reasonable example.

    That is where a strong director would have ironed that out. Glen held the power, as this was his fifth film and all his films have dodgy takes.

    I think also the producers wanted to show off Dalton's abilities more. Why? Because Bond was ridiculed before as being an easy role that no serious actor wanted. Of course, untrue. Bond is a complex role and let's give Dalton credit for giving the best he could at the time and in the circumstances.

    Cubby was also not involved due to illness. Cubby being around helped for sure. He would have seen the dailies and perhaps asked for a retake.

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    However, with Della, this was to show Bond was shocked, as this is the last thing he was expecting on Felix's wedding night. It was an exceptional situation. Bond is human and everyone has a different emotional reaction. Maybe it was to show how close he and Felix were, as we must remember Felix was rarely seen after LALD.

    They were definitely going for dramatic (as the musical cue indicates) but I do think the acting shows a bit too much in this scene at least.

    I don't feel the emotion myself when i'm watching it. That's the biggest problem for me.

  • Posts: 19,339
    same here....very false and i dont feel connected to Bond in his distress as i should do.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    However, with Della, this was to show Bond was shocked, as this is the last thing he was expecting on Felix's wedding night. It was an exceptional situation. Bond is human and everyone has a different emotional reaction. Maybe it was to show how close he and Felix were, as we must remember Felix was rarely seen after LALD.

    They were definitely going for dramatic (as the musical cue indicates) but I do think the acting shows a bit too much in this scene at least.
    The first time I saw the film, that entire Florida bit seemed very un-Bondian to me, and a lot of that had to do with Dalton's approach. It was quite intense and perhaps not what I was expecting from Bond, so it was difficult to adjust. More Martin Riggs than James Bond if you will.

    With repeated watches, it's become more palatable now, but is still a bit too emotionally raw. I understand that this is what they were going for though. It's not an error as that is the whole plot. Revenge.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

    I'm talking about ability, though, not style. Actors have been delivering all manner of performances for decades.

    As others have said, Dalton was guilty over egging it at times, this being a reasonable example.

    That is where a strong director would have ironed that out. Glen held the power, as this was his fifth film and all his films have dodgy takes.

    I think also the producers wanted to show off Dalton's abilities more. Why? Because Bond was ridiculed before as being an easy role that no serious actor wanted. Of course, untrue. Bond is a complex role and let's give Dalton credit for giving the best he could at the time and in the circumstances.

    Cubby was also not involved due to illness. Cubby being around helped for sure. He would have seen the dailies and perhaps asked for a retake.

    All you say might be true, but by that logic we can absolve anyone of any misdemeanour and put it down to extraneous circumstances. Pain face: directors fault, etc.

    Dalts is brilliant in parts, especially opposite Davi, but the point I was making is that I feel Craig is the superior actor. QoS was made in shambolic circumstances and he still pulled out a fantastic performance, in fact I don't recall him hitting a bum note. Dalton on the other hand has these little theatrical flourishes peppered through his films that don't quite fly.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    To be fair though there are other examples of this in the series. Broz trying to revive Jinx in DAD was pretty bad and another instance where you could see them trying to sell the situation.

    @RC7. Dalton tends to be more dramatic in his facial expressions, whereas Craig conveys a lot by not doing very much. (the Hemmingway scene vs Craig being suspended by M).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To be fair though there are other examples of this in the series. Broz trying to revive Jinx in DAD was pretty bad and another instance where you could see them trying to sell the situation.
    Oh dear. Please don't remind me of this.
  • Posts: 19,339
    And Daltons 'arsk' in TLD and 'aaask' in LTK....really annoyed me that they kept that in...
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To be fair though there are other examples of this in the series. Broz trying to revive Jinx in DAD was pretty bad and another instance where you could see them trying to sell the situation.
    Oh dear. Please don't remind me of this.

    He looks like he's kissing her rather than giving her mouth-to-mouth.

    @barryt007. I know this is nit-picking but there's also "We're losing fuel, farst" vs. "Hospital! Intensive care where you'll be if you don't get out of here faast"
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

    I'm talking about ability, though, not style. Actors have been delivering all manner of performances for decades.

    As others have said, Dalton was guilty over egging it at times, this being a reasonable example.

    That is where a strong director would have ironed that out. Glen held the power, as this was his fifth film and all his films have dodgy takes.

    I think also the producers wanted to show off Dalton's abilities more. Why? Because Bond was ridiculed before as being an easy role that no serious actor wanted. Of course, untrue. Bond is a complex role and let's give Dalton credit for giving the best he could at the time and in the circumstances.

    Cubby was also not involved due to illness. Cubby being around helped for sure. He would have seen the dailies and perhaps asked for a retake.

    All you say might be true, but by that logic we can absolve anyone of any misdemeanour and put it down to extraneous circumstances. Pain face: directors fault, etc.

    Dalts is brilliant in parts, especially opposite Davi, but the point I was making is that I feel Craig is the superior actor. QoS was made in shambolic circumstances and he still pulled out a fantastic performance, in fact I don't recall him hitting a bum note. Dalton on the other hand has these little theatrical flourishes peppered through his films that don't quite fly.

    Comes to my earlier point. Dalton needed better backing like Craig. In Dalton's time, the production team was pulling in different directions.

    With Craig, they were all on the same page. That helps.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To be fair though there are other examples of this in the series. Broz trying to revive Jinx in DAD was pretty bad and another instance where you could see them trying to sell the situation.
    Oh dear. Please don't remind me of this.

    He looks like he's kissing her rather than giving her mouth-to-mouth.
    He probably thinks she is dead.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    To be fair though there are other examples of this in the series. Broz trying to revive Jinx in DAD was pretty bad and another instance where you could see them trying to sell the situation.
    Oh dear. Please don't remind me of this.

    He looks like he's kissing her rather than giving her mouth-to-mouth.

    @barryt007. I know this is nit-picking but there's also "We're losing fuel, farst" vs. "Hospital! Intensive care where you'll be if you don't get out of here faast"

    Exactly...why keep that in ,and not tell Dalton to change the accent on it ?

  • Posts: 11,189
    7.31
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Absolutely horrid. Overly melodramatic. These are the kinds of demonstrations which sicken me, and make me thankful for Craig.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    I enjoy Dalton's performances and his films, he's obviously a talented actor, but I do think he is caught 'acting' at times. If you play the scene of Bond finding Della followed by Bond cradling Vesper it's evident that Craig brings an extra level of screen acting class.

    I see the point, but in fairness we are talking about acting styles, with one being from 1989 and one from 2006. I think Craig had great backing and a director in Campbell who refined better than Glen.

    Those subtle performances that Craig achieved would have been harder, had he been for instance doing LTK. That is why a series has survived. It forges new paths of expression. And it took the disaster that was DAD, for a serious reappraisal to take place in the minds of the producers. Bourne also paved the way for that.

    I'm talking about ability, though, not style. Actors have been delivering all manner of performances for decades.

    As others have said, Dalton was guilty over egging it at times, this being a reasonable example.

    That is where a strong director would have ironed that out. Glen held the power, as this was his fifth film and all his films have dodgy takes.

    I think also the producers wanted to show off Dalton's abilities more. Why? Because Bond was ridiculed before as being an easy role that no serious actor wanted. Of course, untrue. Bond is a complex role and let's give Dalton credit for giving the best he could at the time and in the circumstances.

    Cubby was also not involved due to illness. Cubby being around helped for sure. He would have seen the dailies and perhaps asked for a retake.

    All you say might be true, but by that logic we can absolve anyone of any misdemeanour and put it down to extraneous circumstances. Pain face: directors fault, etc.

    Dalts is brilliant in parts, especially opposite Davi, but the point I was making is that I feel Craig is the superior actor. QoS was made in shambolic circumstances and he still pulled out a fantastic performance, in fact I don't recall him hitting a bum note. Dalton on the other hand has these little theatrical flourishes peppered through his films that don't quite fly.

    Comes to my earlier point. Dalton needed better backing like Craig. In Dalton's time, the production team was pulling in different directions.

    With Craig, they were all on the same page. That helps.

    We're talking at cross purposes here. The production circumstances (which were dire for QoS) are irrelevant. This is down to innate ability and screen craft.
Sign In or Register to comment.