Is 'For Your Eyes Only' the most boring James Bond film?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited May 2017 Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting. The cinematographer also plays a hand in it. The chaps who individually did the prior two films would have made it a lot more colourful.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Spectre is a legendary masterpiece compared to Octopussy and A View To A Kill, especially the latter.

    Oooh that should be in the controversial thread...OP ???? really ???
    @barryt007, the Berlin segment especially comes to bore me to death. And I was never sold to the villain who is very weak a character. He plays it way too safe. Not that I have anything against Louis Jordan, but Kamal Khan is one of my least favourite Bond villains. Heck, his henchman was more charismatic and rich with presence than he was.

    You didnt like Berlin and Kamal Khan ??

    Lucky i like u so much @ClarkDevlin ;)

    I will let @benny sort you out tomorrow hahaha .

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited May 2017 Posts: 45,489
    I was really looking forward to OP after the brilliant FYEO, and after reading glowing reviews, but I am afraid I was disappointed. It did not live up to the hype of being something truly special as one reviewer put it. It was a step down for me.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I was really looking forward to OP after the brilliant FYEO, and after reading glowing reviews, but I am afraid I was disappointed. It did not live up to the hype of being something truly special as one reviewer put it. It was a step down for me.

    Silly Dr..
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited May 2017 Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
    See, @bondjames, the thing is, with Bond ducking under a train, shooting a few Soviet troops, hanging onto a train alongside two separate car chases seem fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But, Alan Hume's tired cinematography and John Glen's lack of agile delivery are both what degrade those elements for me. TSWLM's crew would've done a better job with it, if you ask me.

    The closest way I could compare to how I feel with TSWLM/MR and OP/AVTAK is that: Imagine if you're eating Spaghetti made delicious by the spices dropped on and around it, whether it's the salt, pepper or the sauce, whatever. That's the first group. The latter is without all these ingredients but the Spaghetti alone. Without a spice. Just a deserted Spaghetti and nothing else.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Spectre is a legendary masterpiece compared to Octopussy and A View To A Kill, especially the latter.

    Oooh that should be in the controversial thread...OP ???? really ???
    @barryt007, the Berlin segment especially comes to bore me to death. And I was never sold to the villain who is very weak a character. He plays it way too safe. Not that I have anything against Louis Jordan, but Kamal Khan is one of my least favourite Bond villains. Heck, his henchman was more charismatic and rich with presence than he was.

    You didnt like Berlin and Kamal Khan ??

    Lucky i like u so much @ClarkDevlin ;)

    I will let @benny sort you out tomorrow hahaha .
    Throwing me under the bus, eh, @barryt007, old boy? :))
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
    See, @bondjames, the thing is, with Bond ducking under a train, shooting a few Soviet troops, hanging onto a train alongside two separate car chases seem fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But, Alan Hume's tired cinematography and John Glen's lack of agile delivery are both what degrade those elements for me. TSWLM's crew would've done a better job with it, if you ask me.

    The closest way I could compare to how I feel with TSWLM/MR and OP/AVTAK is that: Imagine if you're eating Spaghetti made delicious by the spices dropped on and around it, whether it's the salt, pepper or the sauce, whatever. That's the first group. The latter is without all these ingredients but the Spaghetti alone. Without a spice. Just a deserted Spaghetti and nothing else.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Spectre is a legendary masterpiece compared to Octopussy and A View To A Kill, especially the latter.

    Oooh that should be in the controversial thread...OP ???? really ???
    @barryt007, the Berlin segment especially comes to bore me to death. And I was never sold to the villain who is very weak a character. He plays it way too safe. Not that I have anything against Louis Jordan, but Kamal Khan is one of my least favourite Bond villains. Heck, his henchman was more charismatic and rich with presence than he was.

    You didnt like Berlin and Kamal Khan ??

    Lucky i like u so much @ClarkDevlin ;)

    I will let @benny sort you out tomorrow hahaha .
    Throwing me under the bus, eh, @barryt007, old boy? :))

    He will find you either old chap....best to make it as painless as possible hahaha
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    barryt007 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
    See, @bondjames, the thing is, with Bond ducking under a train, shooting a few Soviet troops, hanging onto a train alongside two separate car chases seem fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But, Alan Hume's tired cinematography and John Glen's lack of agile delivery are both what degrade those elements for me. TSWLM's crew would've done a better job with it, if you ask me.

    The closest way I could compare to how I feel with TSWLM/MR and OP/AVTAK is that: Imagine if you're eating Spaghetti made delicious by the spices dropped on and around it, whether it's the salt, pepper or the sauce, whatever. That's the first group. The latter is without all these ingredients but the Spaghetti alone. Without a spice. Just a deserted Spaghetti and nothing else.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Spectre is a legendary masterpiece compared to Octopussy and A View To A Kill, especially the latter.

    Oooh that should be in the controversial thread...OP ???? really ???
    @barryt007, the Berlin segment especially comes to bore me to death. And I was never sold to the villain who is very weak a character. He plays it way too safe. Not that I have anything against Louis Jordan, but Kamal Khan is one of my least favourite Bond villains. Heck, his henchman was more charismatic and rich with presence than he was.

    You didnt like Berlin and Kamal Khan ??

    Lucky i like u so much @ClarkDevlin ;)

    I will let @benny sort you out tomorrow hahaha .
    Throwing me under the bus, eh, @barryt007, old boy? :))

    He will find you either old chap....best to make it as painless as possible hahaha
    Tell him to make it quick! :))
  • Posts: 19,339
    Oh he will....just keep your legs crossed...that poker is red hot !!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
    See, @bondjames, the thing is, with Bond ducking under a train, shooting a few Soviet troops, hanging onto a train alongside two separate car chases seem fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But, Alan Hume's tired cinematography and John Glen's lack of agile delivery are both what degrade those elements for me. TSWLM's crew would've done a better job with it, if you ask me.

    The closest way I could compare to how I feel with TSWLM/MR and OP/AVTAK is that: Imagine if you're eating Spaghetti made delicious by the spices dropped on and around it, whether it's the salt, pepper or the sauce, whatever. That's the first group. The latter is without all these ingredients but the Spaghetti alone. Without a spice. Just a deserted Spaghetti and nothing else.
    You make good points @ClarkDevlin. I've always felt that Glen's direction had a bit of a cheap tv flavour to it at times, even though he does edit the action nicely and his sequences have decent pacing (something which I certainly don't feel with SP outside of the Hinx fight). He keeps the camera up too close as well rather than taking it out for a more Lean'esque wide angle perspective approach.

    I've always put that down to his lack of visual flair, and perhaps budget constraints. There's no doubt that the MR/TSWLM era has a lot more finesse in the direction of the action sequences. I also think Hamilton did a much better job with the large set pieces in LALD/TMWTGG (I love the long lensed approach to the boat chase in the former and the car chase in the latter).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Are you talking about the bomb and train sequence? I'm at a loss on how to respond to these remarks.
    Not what was narrated, @bondjames, but the way it was narrated. The setpieces look very tired to me. Otherwise, on the script I am sure it bombarded an excitement. I just didn't like Glen's direction. Too slow paced and uninteresting.
    I've always really enjoyed that bit but I'll have to watch it again to see if I can relate to what you're saying. There's Bond hiding in the train car, shooting that poor Russian straight in the head, the fight atop the train, the death of Mishka (or is that Grishka) and of course the Alfa chase and bomb defusal. A thrill a minute!

    The part that normally bores me in OP is when Bond is at Octopussy's palace and also the finale (before the plane ride, which is a thrill). I also can't stand the jungle sequence.
    See, @bondjames, the thing is, with Bond ducking under a train, shooting a few Soviet troops, hanging onto a train alongside two separate car chases seem fascinating, absolutely fascinating. But, Alan Hume's tired cinematography and John Glen's lack of agile delivery are both what degrade those elements for me. TSWLM's crew would've done a better job with it, if you ask me.

    The closest way I could compare to how I feel with TSWLM/MR and OP/AVTAK is that: Imagine if you're eating Spaghetti made delicious by the spices dropped on and around it, whether it's the salt, pepper or the sauce, whatever. That's the first group. The latter is without all these ingredients but the Spaghetti alone. Without a spice. Just a deserted Spaghetti and nothing else.
    You make good points @ClarkDevlin. I've always felt that Glen's direction had a bit of a cheap tv flavour to it at times, even though he does edit the action nicely and his sequences have decent pacing (something which I certainly don't feel with SP outside of the Hinx fight). He keeps the camera up too close as well rather than taking it out for a more Lean'esque wide angle perspective approach.

    I've always put that down to his lack of visual flair, and perhaps budget constraints. There's no doubt that the MR/TSWLM era has a lot more finesse in the direction of the action sequences. I also think Hamilton did a much better job with the large set pieces in LALD/TMWTGG (I love the long lensed approach to the boat chase in the former and the car chase in the latter).
    All summed it up better than I'll ever manage!
  • It's my favourite Moore Bond but I don't think I could write 1000 words to explain why.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It's my favourite Moore Bond but I don't think I could write 1000 words to explain why.

    It s because it s the best. Honourable mention to TSWLM, which is the most iconic and also very enjoyable.
  • Posts: 463
    While I don't think FYEO is the most boring Bond film (I give that honor to TND), I think that the soundtrack doesn't help - Barry was definitely needed here. Apart from a couple of moments, I think this one is just medocre. I haven't yet watched this one during my Bondathon so I will update this thread when I watch it. I might make it my next one on my list now.
  • Posts: 1,916
    Maybe I should put in the controversial opinions thread, but I like FYEO's score. It seemed fresh then and I still enjoy it. It energizes the many action sequences and doesn't repeat itself over and over.

    It works better than most non-Barry scores from the '80s onward. I can listen to this and reimagine certain scenes in the film, which is important. Can't say the same with Kamen, Serra, much of Arnold and about any of Newman.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I love FYEO's score too!
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I could sit through FYEO and enjoy it more than I can certain other film that I have been rather vocal about, I wouldn't say SPECTRE was all boring but I found my last viewing quite a slog, not something I could say about the previous Craig films.
  • Posts: 11,189
    For me the second half of DAF is the most bored I've felt watching a Bond film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    There are some great sequences throughout FYEO that keep it from being boring, although there are certainly some dull bits. I find the score very memorable. I just wish Conti had eliminated the disco that permeates the action sequences, because it's not especially good (I don't mind disco in general as I really like Bond 77 from TSWLM and the Lotus chase score). Conti's sounds like a cheap imitation of Hamlisch's efforts (almost like he wanted to give the sequences the same feel as the earlier film).
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I don't know if I'd classify any Bond film as boring, it just comes down to whether or not I'm interested in what I'm seeing unfold on screen. Those two are very different things, for me. A lot of stuff could be going on in the film, like big action sequences that most audiences might find exhilarating, but if I don't care for the characters in the thick of it, my interest wanes. In the same token, a slow character dialogue that people sleep during could light my fire big time.

    The least engaged I am would probably happen in a Moore or Brosnan film, as less interest is there for me in those respective areas. I don't buy the product, so I'm harder to sell on it, in a way. Thankfully the Moore films at the very least have the beautiful location work that really make them interesting to watch besides what I perceive as weaknesses, so I don't think I could ever classify any of them as truly boring. Boredom could sink in with TND or TWINE because I don't buy into the approach or feeling of the era, whereas DAD would just have me expressing disappointment.

    Three factors would really make me lose interest in a Bond film would be Bond's character and how he's written and used most majorly, the use of the villain and supporting cast, and ultimately how all the film and Bond elements come together in the end to tell the story. Not having a Bond I'm into is the biggest hurdle for a film to cross, as he is the reason I watch the films and can be the difference between me being forgiving of the flaws I see or being frustrated with a film because a good Bond isn't there to distract me from those flaws.

    Everything else is secondary to Bond's presentation, and I think that's why I can dig films that the majority don't seem to be mad about, like TB, LTK, QoS or SP, because the Bond fully engages me and allows me to forgive other flaws I see, with varying degrees. It's also the same reason why films people may love, like GF in a major example, have become harder for me to get into, because on top of other issues in the film there isn't a Bond I support through the journey.

    So of all the Bond films I've loved in the past, the one I'd say has me least interested at this time is GF, whereas ones I've never "got" until recently like DAF are only going up in my mind. Crazy, really.
  • Posts: 1,916
    I don't know if I'd classify any Bond film as boring, it just comes down to whether or not I'm interested in what I'm seeing unfold on screen. Those two are very different things, for me. A lot of stuff could be going on in the film, like big action sequences that most audiences might find exhilarating, but if I don't care for the characters in the thick of it, my interest wanes. In the same token, a slow character dialogue that people sleep during could light my fire big time.

    The least engaged I am would probably happen in a Moore or Brosnan film, as less interest is there for me in those respective areas. I don't buy the product, so I'm harder to sell on it, in a way. Thankfully the Moore films at the very least have the beautiful location work that really make them interesting to watch besides what I perceive as weaknesses, so I don't think I could ever classify any of them as truly boring. Boredom could sink in with TND or TWINE because I don't buy into the approach or feeling of the era, whereas DAD would just have me expressing disappointment.

    Three factors would really make me lose interest in a Bond film would be Bond's character and how he's written and used most majorly, the use of the villain and supporting cast, and ultimately how all the film and Bond elements come together in the end to tell the story. Not having a Bond I'm into is the biggest hurdle for a film to cross, as he is the reason I watch the films and can be the difference between me being forgiving of the flaws I see or being frustrated with a film because a good Bond isn't there to distract me from those flaws.

    Everything else is secondary to Bond's presentation, and I think that's why I can dig films that the majority don't seem to be mad about, like TB, LTK, QoS or SP, because the Bond fully engages me and allows me to forgive other flaws I see, with varying degrees. It's also the same reason why films people may love, like GF in a major example, have become harder for me to get into, because on top of other issues in the film there isn't a Bond I support through the journey.

    So of all the Bond films I've loved in the past, the one I'd say has me least interested at this time is GF, whereas ones I've never "got" until recently like DAF are only going up in my mind. Crazy, really.

    Great post. I share a lot of these feelings, especially about the films others don't like as much. LTK and QoS are perfect examples of that because I'm focused mostly on the actor playing Bond and not so much the (fill in the complaint).

    Another point above I agree with is the characters and not caring for them and that's how I feel with FYEO. I can't think of any aside from Colombo that are engaging. Kristatos and Melina are pretty one-dimensional, Loque and Kriegler are Red Grant variations, Bibi has no place in the film, Ferrara and the Countess are colorless sacrificial lambs, etc. Then I look at an undeveloped character like Jacoba Brink who has 2-3 scenes and could be potentially interesting and nothing is done with her.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    FYEO is a Bond film equivalent of watching paint dry.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The lifeless characters are a weak point of the film, true. Particularly in comparison to its predecessor and immediate successor, which were entirely the opposite to the extreme.

    Some would argue they are just more realistic, but I wish they had more 'camp' or exaggeration to them. I like my Bond characters with a bit of flavour.

    Interestingly, I find that Roger Moore dials back his super screen charisma in this film too, and I wonder if it's so as to fit in with the surroundings. He's back to what he does best in the next outing.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 3,333
    BT3366 wrote: »
    Maybe I should put in the controversial opinions thread, but I like FYEO's score. It seemed fresh then and I still enjoy it. It energizes the many action sequences and doesn't repeat itself over and over.

    It works better than most non-Barry scores from the '80s onward. I can listen to this and reimagine certain scenes in the film, which is important. Can't say the same with Kamen, Serra, much of Arnold and about any of Newman.
    I have to disagree, @BT3366. The FYEO score did not "seem fresh" back in the summer of 1981, far from it. The funky-jazz-brass disco scene, which Conti's score can be described as, was pretty dated by June '81. I thought Marvin Hamlisch did a much better job of introducing disco to Bond in '77 than Bill Conti managed 4 years later. That was when it felt fresh. I can still recall disliking his score immensely back in the cinema in '81. So much so, it was the first Bond movie whereby I didn't purchase the LP soundtrack afterwards. Sure, his Rocky score was pretty good for a boxing movie, but Bond is not a boxing movie, and this style of music doesn't suit a Bond picture IMHO. Now, if EON had wanted a proper contemporary disco-funk composer to score the music then they should've given Nile Rodgers or Allee Willis a call. They didn't, and we sadly ended up with disco music that sounded like my old man had composed it.

    I think a Barry scored FYEO would've lifted this rather dull Bond movie and given it an extra dynamic that, for me, feels solely lacking.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Wasn't disco out by the 80's anyway? I thought that was a late 70's thing.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It was out indeed @bondjames ,it was more New Age music from groups like Human League,The Police and UB40 and individuals like Gary Newman.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @barryt007, New Age is one of my favourite periods. Love the stuff that came out of the UK from that era.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 3,333
    Yes, @bondjames, New Romantics started in '79 and by the summer of '81 were in their full pomp. I think before that it was called New Wave? Electro music was all the rage at this time. not disco, for which groundbreaking Giorgio Moroder could be called one of it's earliest inspirations. Now, I loved his Midnight Express score in '78, but I'd still go so far as to say Bond should've remained orchestral and not try and stick its toe into the contemporary scene. That's the business of the title song only IMO.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 13
    My favourite Bond film. The underwater scene can drag a little but I still like them. I actually love Bill Conti's score, the action scenes are great, Moore's acting is balanced and even though I don't find the story quite as good as some other entries in the series it is still entertaining.
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