Bond Movie A vs. Bond Movie B (Diamonds Are Forever vs. The World Is Not Enough)

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  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Licence To Kill.
  • Posts: 11
    Licence To Kill.
  • Posts: 4,762
    I'm very torn about this, but License to Kill takes the win for me. Overall, the action is so much better in LTK than AVTAK, which is really the only determining factor here, since both of these Bond epics are so equally matched. They both have exceptional Bond performances by Moore and Dalton, two magnificent scores (though AVTAK's is better), great girls, and lethal villains! Nevertheless, LTK is in my Top 3, so I must let it take the win.
  • Posts: 1,310
    License to Kill for me, and quite easily. I think it beats AVTAK in just about every regard. (Though the villains are evenly matched)

    10. License to Kill (1989) - 7.5/10
    11. Tomorrow Never Dies (1997) - 7/10
    12. Octopussy (1983) - 7/10
    13. For Your Eyes Only (1981) - 7/10
    14. The Spy Who Loved Me (1977) - 7/10
    15. Live and Let Die (1973) - 7/10
    16. Quantum of Solace (2008) - 6/10
    17. The World Is Not Enough (1999) - 6/10
    18. Diamonds Are Forever (1971) - 5.5/10
    19. Moonraker (1979) - 5.5/10
    20. A View to a Kill (1985) - 5.5/10
  • Posts: 9,848
    LTK brilliant film
  • Posts: 5,634
    License to Kill is a fun adventure no doubt, but I will always insist it just doesn't have the feel of a James Bond release

    It's as said before, a little too violent for the time and seems a bit out of place even, we went from some placid Bond adventures to the sight of Shark attacks, exploding heads, profanities unheard of at the time and all round nastyness that was simply out of sequence from what went before. Dalton merely goes from the Florida Keys to Mexico hunting sharks, snarling a lot etc but I did enjoy the revenge aspect of it and going renegade and Robert Davi is a very effective villain but it simply doesn't feel like Bond half the time
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Honestly, A View To A Kill. It's a guilty pleasure for me. Moore and Walken give great performances and John Barry's score is the icing on the cake.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    License to Kill by far; it's in my top 10, while AVTAK is in my bottom two.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    0iker0 wrote:
    Without a doubt, A View To A Kill. It's Moore fun to watch, Moore doesn't look that old as some say, it's due to his light hair in this film.

    In my opinion, it's the wrinkles.
  • Posts: 501
    echo wrote:
    0iker0 wrote:
    Without a doubt, A View To A Kill. It's Moore fun to watch, Moore doesn't look that old as some say, it's due to his light hair in this film.

    In my opinion, it's the wrinkles.
    He had those wrinkles in OP too... but he had the hair much lighter in AVTAK which made him look both odd and old
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 1,492
    I love A View to A Kill and have never understood the animosity and, frankly, ageism towards it. In places it is absolutely charming.

    LTK is in a different league. Sharp, adventurous, edgy and original. The oil tanker chase through the mountains is better then the action scenes in all but one of the Brosnan films.

    So...LTK.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    I love A View to A Kill and have never understood the animosity and, frankly, ageism towards it. In places it is absolutely charming.

    LTK is in a different league. Sharp, adventurous, edgy and original. The oil tanker chase through the mountains is better then the action scenes in all but one of the Brosnan films.

    So...LTK.

    I'll agree that View has a lot of charm and its a film I do enjoy (also because it was made the year I was born) however there's a reason for the so-called "ageism"

    Look at the fight in the warehouse at around 0.30



    Hardly the most convincing fight? Even the final plane climax in DAD had more excitement to it despite its stupidity.

    I adore Sir Rog both as Bond and outside of Bond but even he felt he was too old to play the character in 1985 - I think he also considers AVTAK as his least favourite of the seven films he did.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    [arm and its a film I do enjoy (also because it was made the year I was born) however there's a reason for the so-called "ageism"

    There is nothing so-called about it. When a character/person is discriminated due to age thats "ageism"
    BAIN123 wrote:
    [Hardly the most convincing fight? Even the final plane climax in DAD had more excitement to it despite its stupidity.

    There was nothing exciting about the plane climax in DAD. The special effects were shoddy and detracted from the action. It was like they were fighting insided a badly made cartoon.
    BAIN123 wrote:
    [I adore Sir Rog both as Bond and outside of Bond but even he felt he was too old to play the character in 1985 - I think he also considers AVTAK as his least favourite of the seven films he did.

    The fact that he considers AVTAK his "least favourite" may be down to many factors including not liking Grace Jones very much. But that doesn't excuse the ageist remarks many "fans" make about his performance on the net.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    [/quote]There was nothing exciting about the plane climax in DAD. The special effects were shoddy and detracted from the action. It was like they were fighting insided a badly made cartoon.
    [/quote]


    Ok maybe a slight exaggeration on my part. Still, not a particularly convincing fight. Luckily the GG climax kind of makes up for it.
    [/quote]
    actonsteve wrote:
    The fact that he considers AVTAK his "least favourite" may be down to many factors including not liking Grace Jones very much. But that doesn't excuse the ageist remarks many "fans" make about his performance on the net.

    Agreed but I remember reading a quote from him in which he said in his typical self-mocking manner that he was "about 400 years too old in AVTAK". I like his performance in View but realistically he probably was a little too long in the tooth to play the part by '85 - he wasn't even playing an "older" Bond.

    I don't mean to sound nasty or ageist but you can understand why some people feel he was too old to play the part in View. Especially when he has lines like "Drat I dropped the soap - THAT is not the soap".
  • Posts: 501
    BAIN123 wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    I love A View to A Kill and have never understood the animosity and, frankly, ageism towards it. In places it is absolutely charming.

    LTK is in a different league. Sharp, adventurous, edgy and original. The oil tanker chase through the mountains is better then the action scenes in all but one of the Brosnan films.

    So...LTK.

    I'll agree that View has a lot of charm and its a film I do enjoy (also because it was made the year I was born) however there's a reason for the so-called "ageism"

    Look at the fight in the warehouse at around 0.30



    Hardly the most convincing fight? Even the final plane climax in DAD had more excitement to it despite its stupidity.

    I adore Sir Rog both as Bond and outside of Bond but even he felt he was too old to play the character in 1985 - I think he also considers AVTAK as his least favourite of the seven films he did.
    And what about the fight starting in 1:08? I think that fight is simply perfect...

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    LTK
  • Posts: 1,778
    BAIN123 wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    I love A View to A Kill and have never understood the animosity and, frankly, ageism towards it. In places it is absolutely charming.

    LTK is in a different league. Sharp, adventurous, edgy and original. The oil tanker chase through the mountains is better then the action scenes in all but one of the Brosnan films.

    So...LTK.

    I'll agree that View has a lot of charm and its a film I do enjoy (also because it was made the year I was born) however there's a reason for the so-called "ageism"

    Look at the fight in the warehouse at around 0.30



    Hardly the most convincing fight? Even the final plane climax in DAD had more excitement to it despite its stupidity.

    I adore Sir Rog both as Bond and outside of Bond but even he felt he was too old to play the character in 1985 - I think he also considers AVTAK as his least favourite of the seven films he did.

    I'll admit that those were some of the lesser fights in the Bond series but I think that in large part was due to John Glen not being very good at directing fight scenes.
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    actonsteve wrote:
    I love A View to A Kill and have never understood the animosity and, frankly, ageism towards it. In places it is absolutely charming.

    LTK is in a different league. Sharp, adventurous, edgy and original. The oil tanker chase through the mountains is better then the action scenes in all but one of the Brosnan films.

    So...LTK.

    I'll agree that View has a lot of charm and its a film I do enjoy (also because it was made the year I was born) however there's a reason for the so-called "ageism"

    Look at the fight in the warehouse at around 0.30



    Hardly the most convincing fight? Even the final plane climax in DAD had more excitement to it despite its stupidity.

    I adore Sir Rog both as Bond and outside of Bond but even he felt he was too old to play the character in 1985 - I think he also considers AVTAK as his least favourite of the seven films he did.

    I'll admit that those were some of the lesser fights in the Bond series but I think that in large part was due to John Glen not being very good at directing fight scenes.

    I love how the thug just "lies down" on the conveyorbelt at 0.59 :))
  • Posts: 4,762
    In the video above, 2:49 is worth it all! Most epic Bond punch ever!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited March 2012 Posts: 14,590
    ^ At 4:33 I love how Bond jumps up, grabs hold of something and boots the bad guy. I think nearly every Bond actor has done this move at some point except Craig.
  • Posts: 4,762
    QBranch wrote:
    ^ At 4:33 I love how Bond jumps up, grabs hold of something and boots the bad guy. I think nearly every Bond actor has done this move at some point except Craig.

    Yeah, it seems like that's the case. I can recall Connery doing that in the fight with Red Grant, Moore in the fight with Sandor, Dalton, as you mentioned, in the fight with the jailer, and Brosnan in the fight with Gustav Graves.
  • Posts: 1,778
    00Beast wrote:
    QBranch wrote:
    ^ At 4:33 I love how Bond jumps up, grabs hold of something and boots the bad guy. I think nearly every Bond actor has done this move at some point except Craig.

    Yeah, it seems like that's the case. I can recall Connery doing that in the fight with Red Grant, Moore in the fight with Sandor, Dalton, as you mentioned, in the fight with the jailer, and Brosnan in the fight with Gustav Graves.

    Don't forget Moore grapping onto a fire escape ladder and kicking that thug in LALD. I refer to it as "the Bond Manuveur" lol.
  • Posts: 5,634
    I would loved to have seen a fight with Moore and May Day in a View To A Kill, if only for entertainment purposes, they did at one point get very close as Zorin flooded the mine, but it was over before it even started, which was a pity

    Instead of the nonsense on the Golden Gate Bridge maybe they could of had a finish on The Eiffel Tower where Bond and Jones tussle, I would of liked to have seen that
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    The fight in AVTAK with the guards in the warehouse always gives me a laugh. Why did the guard with the beard lie down on the conveyor, and then get wrapped up?
    It makes no sense, and looks stupid as shot. There really is no reason for it.
    But then, despite his age, and the obvious use of stunt doubles, I do enjoy the fight in Stacy's house with those 'baboons'. For my money it's one of the better aspects of AVTAK.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I feel like we've been on AVTAK vs. LTK for a few days now. Are we getting a new one soon?
  • Posts: 1,778
    Could I please make a couple requests? "The Living Daylights vs. Goldeneye" and "From Russia With Love vs. Goldfinger". Thanks :D
  • Posts: 4,762
    I feel like we've been on AVTAK vs. LTK for a few days now. Are we getting a new one soon?

    Yeah sorry guys, my apologies! Also I'll be taking requests now if anyone ever has one, and I do believe that DoubleOhhSeven has one. Yes good sir, we'll do TLD vs. GE as you requested, that seems like an epic match!

    As for AVTAK vs. LTK, LTK took the trophy!

    All right, now we're on TLD vs. GE
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Oh my, tough choice!

    Nah, GE it is.
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited March 2012 Posts: 3,262
    Easily TLD. Better lead Bond actor, better M, better Miss Moneypenny, more chemistry between Bond and the leading lady, stronger script with more Fleming literary source material, more of a classic era feel to the production, and John Barry music makes TLD the better film though GE does have the better villains.
  • edited March 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I'm probably going to be in the minority here but I'll agree with DD and go with GE. It's a sentimental old favourite.

    Yes Brosnan's performance is a bit lightweight and stiff and the narrative is episodic but the characters are more memorable than those in TLD IMO.

    Plus:

    -Better title song
    -Better MP
    -Better opening stunt (yes I know the PTS in TLD is impressive and the freefall stuff in GE is silly but the bungee jump is one of the best stunts in the series. The way its filmed with the camera following the stuntman all the way down and then him getting his gun out all in one take is one of the best moments in the series for me).
    -Better Bond girl ("go ahead...shoot him...he means nothing to me")
    -Better M ("Because if I wanted sarcasm Mr Tanner I'll talk to my children thank you very much")
    -Better use of Joe Don Baker (emphasis added!!)
    -a tank chase
    -Better bad guys
    -more quotable dialogue ("I might as well ask if all the vodka martini's ever silenced the screams of all the men you've killed")
    -A much slicker direction. As much as I like TLD it did feel a bit on the tired side.
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