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Is Skyfall a film in favour of Brexit Britain?

13

Comments

  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,409
    I’d be most curious to see how Bond’s Britishness will be dealt with in the next film.

    It would seem too interesting a theme to ignore, since so much of the character’s heritage is based on this single attribute and so much has changed since SP’s release.

    So much will hinge on who the director is. For instance, a film like “Dunkirk” is nothing short of political propaganda. We know Nolan is a proud Tory and he depicts Britain as tenacious and determined. In “Dunkirk” we are witnessing a nation in retreat, but instead of playing up the death and loss of life, we are greeted by loud flag-waving nationalism. I found “Dunkirk” to be a bloodless exercise in self-congratulations.

    I don’t know Sam Mendes’s political persuasion. But I’m hoping we get a more liberal take in Bond 25.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    Personally, the patriotism is one of the things I love about SF and the Bond films in general. And I'm not even British lol.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Well somebody has to keep the British end up. Nobody does it better.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    SF was ahead of it's time in a few ways. The patriotic feel fits in perfectly within the post-Brexit era

    "and though We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;"
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2018 Posts: 9,117
    bondjames wrote: »
    Well somebody has to keep the British end up. Nobody does it better.

    Nobody does it all any more.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    I'm going to say it again: SP is the pro-Brexit Bond movie if there is one. A shadowy organization tries to take control of secret services of sovereign countries, many of them democracies, out of pure lust for power. Their front is a petty arrogant technocrat who despise democracy openly and has the trust of the establishment. The petty technocrat even compares his plan to the construction of Rome.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm going to say it again: SP is the pro-Brexit Bond movie if there is one. A shadowy organization tries to take control of secret services of sovereign countries, many of them democracies, out of pure lust for power. Their front is a petty arrogant technocrat who despise democracy openly and has the trust of the establishment. The petty technocrat even compares his plan to the construction of Rome.

    Juncker as Blofeld? Yeah I can buy that.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm going to say it again: SP is the pro-Brexit Bond movie if there is one. A shadowy organization tries to take control of secret services of sovereign countries, many of them democracies, out of pure lust for power. Their front is a petty arrogant technocrat who despise democracy openly and has the trust of the establishment. The petty technocrat even compares his plan to the construction of Rome.

    Juncker as Blofeld? Yeah I can buy that.

    I think Blofeld is smarter. It would be more like the people behind Juncker as Blofeld. Juncker is more like Denbigh.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    I get the message re SP but the imagery and tone of SF is basically "We are British, so there", the use of the Union flag, the poetry, wonderful London backdrop plus "Welcome to Scotland" - a great line "dont mess with us - we are hard" is the tone and it works well. It's all there in SF.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm going to say it again: SP is the pro-Brexit Bond movie if there is one. A shadowy organization tries to take control of secret services of sovereign countries, many of them democracies, out of pure lust for power. Their front is a petty arrogant technocrat who despise democracy openly and has the trust of the establishment. The petty technocrat even compares his plan to the construction of Rome.

    Juncker as Blofeld? Yeah I can buy that.

    I think Blofeld is smarter. It would be more like the people behind Juncker as Blofeld. Juncker is more like Denbigh.

    I'm not even sure Juncker is in that league. If we're talking Bond villain comparisons I'd say he's more Elvis.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm going to say it again: SP is the pro-Brexit Bond movie if there is one. A shadowy organization tries to take control of secret services of sovereign countries, many of them democracies, out of pure lust for power. Their front is a petty arrogant technocrat who despise democracy openly and has the trust of the establishment. The petty technocrat even compares his plan to the construction of Rome.

    Juncker as Blofeld? Yeah I can buy that.

    I think Blofeld is smarter. It would be more like the people behind Juncker as Blofeld. Juncker is more like Denbigh.

    I'm not even sure Juncker is in that league. If we're talking Bond villain comparisons I'd say he's more Elvis.

    That scary.
  • TooManySomethingsTooManySomethings
    Posts: 103
    Okay this made me laugh, good one!
  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Considering Barbara Broccoli and Daniel Craig were quite public in their support of the Remain campaign, I'd have to say no.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Well Britishness has always been an important element of the franchise and is one reason many people - inside or outside of the GB - love the films. I am not really sure if one should interpret Skyfall or Spectre as pro Brexit films. Remember the great parachute scene in TSWLM which appeared shortly after GB joint the European Community in 1974.

    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    GBF wrote: »
    Well Britishness has always been an important element of the franchise and is one reason many people - inside or outside of the GB - love the films. I am not really sure if one should interpret Skyfall or Spectre as pro Brexit films. Remember the great parachute scene in TSWLM which appeared shortly after GB joint the European Community in 1974.

    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.

    Exactly..question answered right there.


  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.
  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.
  • DennisonDennison
    edited March 2018 Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    GBF wrote: »
    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.

    Interesting to note that in 77 we had the silver jubilee and Union Jack parachute and 2012 the diamond jubilee and the Union Jack view over London. Do EON wheel out the Union Jack in times of great patriotism?

    There again in 02 for the golden jubilee I don't recall the Union Jack featuring in DAD and we got it in 83 with the balloon and 85 with the iceberg so there isn't much of pattern in these things.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited March 2018 Posts: 19,339
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.

    Interesting to note that in 77 we had the silver jubilee and Union Jack parachute and 2012 the diamond jubilee and the Union Jack view over London. Do EON wheel out the Union Jack in times of great patriotism?

    There again in 02 for the golden jubilee I don't recall the Union Jack featuring in DAD     and we got it in 83 with the balloon and 85 with the iceberg so there isn't much of pattern in these things.

    It did appear,Wiz,when Graves parachuted outside Buckingham Palace,his parachute.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    Where are you getting the superior patriotism in SP over SF,i'm intrigued ?

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    barryt007 wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.

    Interesting to note that in 77 we had the silver jubilee and Union Jack parachute and 2012 the diamond jubilee and the Union Jack view over London. Do EON wheel out the Union Jack in times of great patriotism?

    There again in 02 for the golden jubilee I don't recall the Union Jack featuring in DAD     and we got it in 83 with the balloon and 85 with the iceberg so there isn't much of pattern in these things.

    It did appear,Wiz,when Graves parachuted outside Buckingham Palace,his parachute.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    Where are you getting the superior patriotism in SP over SF,i'm intrigued ?

    Reread my posts. It has nothing to do with patriotism.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Ludovico wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    I rather guess that 2012 was a very patriotic year, because of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee and the Olympic games and it happens to be a Bond anniversary, too.

    Interesting to note that in 77 we had the silver jubilee and Union Jack parachute and 2012 the diamond jubilee and the Union Jack view over London. Do EON wheel out the Union Jack in times of great patriotism?

    There again in 02 for the golden jubilee I don't recall the Union Jack featuring in DAD     and we got it in 83 with the balloon and 85 with the iceberg so there isn't much of pattern in these things.

    It did appear,Wiz,when Graves parachuted outside Buckingham Palace,his parachute.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    Where are you getting the superior patriotism in SP over SF,i'm intrigued ?

    Reread my posts. It has nothing to do with patriotism.

    OK,i will go back over them.

  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.

    Well considering that the producer of the film is an ardent remainer and the main actor is an ardent remainer ....
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.

    Well considering that the producer of the film is an ardent remainer and the main actor is an ardent remainer ....

    It has nothing to do with personal opinions. Once a work of fiction is created it is out of the creators' control. Especially when it's a collective work. Basic structuralism 101.
  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.

    Well considering that the producer of the film is an ardent remainer and the main actor is an ardent remainer ....

    It has nothing to do with personal opinions. Once a work of fiction is created it is out of the creators' control. Especially when it's a collective work. Basic structuralism 101.

    Hmm, structuralism ... that kind of went out with the 1970s.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,127
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.

    Well considering that the producer of the film is an ardent remainer and the main actor is an ardent remainer ....

    It has nothing to do with personal opinions. Once a work of fiction is created it is out of the creators' control. Especially when it's a collective work. Basic structuralism 101.

    Hmm, structuralism ... that kind of went out with the 1970s.

    Still works regardless.
  • DennisonDennison
    Posts: 1,031
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Dennison wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't think it has anything to do with Britishness, or very little. It's what the actors of SP represent and the ideology they defend: Denbigh, SPECTRE and Blofeld have disregard and contempt for national sovereignty and democracy and prefer a supranational organization as a ruling entity.

    Wrong film.

    I did mention here that I consider SP the pro-Brexit Bond movie. SF not so much.

    You are wrong.

    The beauty of analysis of a work of fiction is that there's no notion of falsifiability. In any case the analysis stands.

    Well considering that the producer of the film is an ardent remainer and the main actor is an ardent remainer ....

    It has nothing to do with personal opinions. Once a work of fiction is created it is out of the creators' control. Especially when it's a collective work. Basic structuralism 101.

    Hmm, structuralism ... that kind of went out with the 1970s.

    Still works regardless.

    ok
  • Benjamin_Weekly69Benjamin_Weekly69 London
    Posts: 727
    We know Nolan is a proud Tory

    We do?
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