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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    We are monkeys with money and guns.

    Not to be offensive, but this indeed is how most Europeans (and afak people from other continents too) see the average American.

    Well, that's indeed a shame, because if they bothered to do their research they would see that the majority of Americans favor things like, say, gun control. But I guess it's just easier for people to cling to their stereotypes.

    In any case, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    I doubt there is actually a study behind it.

    There are plenty of polls that have been taken, indicating Escalus5 is indeed correct.

    I was referring to Commander Ross claim.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    We are monkeys with money and guns.

    Not to be offensive, but this indeed is how most Europeans (and afak people from other continents too) see the average American.

    Well, that's indeed a shame, because if they bothered to do their research they would see that the majority of Americans favor things like, say, gun control. But I guess it's just easier for people to cling to their stereotypes.

    In any case, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    I doubt there is actually a study behind it.

    There are plenty of polls that have been taken, indicating Escalus5 is indeed correct.

    I was referring to Commander Ross claim.

    Says the man with the best supported posts of the forum.

    But I'll just throw in some internet opinions to make my statement a fact.. ;-)

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-americans-look-to-the-rest-of-the-world/

    https://www.quora.com/How-do-Europeans-view-Americans

    https://www.budgettravel.com/article/10-things-europeans-say-about-you-behind-your-back_34433

    @Escalus5 if that were true and America would be a democracy, wouldn't there be gun control? As in Demos=people Cratos=Strength. Or is this an oversimplification?

    @Thunderfinger no doubt will brand this 'fake news', but I'd call it 'understanding basic principles'.
  • Escalus5 wrote: »
    We are monkeys with money and guns.

    Not to be offensive, but this indeed is how most Europeans (and afak people from other continents too) see the average American.

    Well, that's indeed a shame, because if they bothered to do their research they would see that the majority of Americans favor things like, say, gun control. But I guess it's just easier for people to cling to their stereotypes.

    In any case, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    I doubt there is actually a study behind it.

    There are plenty of polls that have been taken, indicating Escalus5 is indeed correct.

    I was referring to Commander Ross claim.

    "Don't listen to what I said, listen to what I meant." The quote SHOWN in your doubtful posting was Escalus5's. At this point, you're just being contentious for its own sake. Let us know when you've got something meaningful to contribute, okay?
  • Given all of the love and “I got your back” stroking that goes on here on this particular thread, I generally avoid it. Still even given the likelihood of encountering a blistering, not to mention personally offensive, verbal triad from the thread participants, I was wondering if someone might be able to explain in “layman” terms exactly why the packaging for the explosive devise pictured as the one delivered to the CNN office in New York City is missing a “cancellation” mark on the stamps. All stamps on mail passing through the postal service gauntlet are marked canceled in order to keep them from being reused and the postal service from losing copious amounts of sorely needed revenue. I expect that there is some clearly logical explanation, but it escapes a poorly educated low life like myself to figure it out. So if anyone has any thoughts, they would be greatly appreciated, whether whimsical or factual.
  • I'm not sure why you expect a "personally offensive" response, and I'm sorry to have to disappoint you. Maybe some other time.

    I would suspect that the lack of postal cancellation on the package(s) in question indicate that they were snuck into the system at some point beyond the local Post Office counter where Joe & Jane Average mail their items. This suggests that someone among the bombers actually works for the Post Office. I'm sure we can all agree that Post Office employees can be members of any political party or persuasion, beyond the simple yin/yang of D or R, and that this little nugget of information does not rule either political party in or out of suspicion.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I expect that there is some clearly logical explanation, but it escapes a poorly educated low life like myself to figure it out.
    1) Being poorly educated does NOT make you a 'low life'! Stop that!
    2) Possibilities: The cancellation stamp was out of ink, and no one noticed. The cancellation stamp was out of ink and no one cared. The cancellation stamp was not used. The package was delivered by the sender directly, using the postal service as cover. The package was created by the receiving party and never went through the mail. The package was beamed to the sender using a matter-transportation device from the future to frame Trump followers to get history to follow the path it should have before the Klingons changed it by giving Putin the the low level technology (by their standards) to get his asset Trump into the White House in 2017 (Earth time). Or, the cancellation stamp was out of ink, and no one noticed.
    ;)

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    We are monkeys with money and guns.

    Not to be offensive, but this indeed is how most Europeans (and afak people from other continents too) see the average American.

    Well, that's indeed a shame, because if they bothered to do their research they would see that the majority of Americans favor things like, say, gun control. But I guess it's just easier for people to cling to their stereotypes.

    In any case, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

    I doubt there is actually a study behind it.

    There are plenty of polls that have been taken, indicating Escalus5 is indeed correct.

    I was referring to Commander Ross claim.

    "Don't listen to what I said, listen to what I meant." The quote SHOWN in your doubtful posting was Escalus5's. At this point, you're just being contentious for its own sake. Let us know when you've got something meaningful to contribute, okay?

    @MrUnpleasant, didn t get to bite the mailman today?

    Escalus understood it just fine.

  • @MrUnpleasant, didn t get to bite the mailman today?

    @Littlefinger, as DJT should have learned from current events but probably hasn't: watch out what you try to evoke. You just might get it.
  • Posts: 628

    Wow, these articles have been really helpful. So a random dude in Norway generalizes a population of 325 million as lacking in nuance based on his anecdotal experiences? Truly eye-opening research you've got there, Ross.
    @Escalus5 if that were true and America would be a democracy, wouldn't there be gun control? As in Demos=people Cratos=Strength. Or is this an oversimplification?

    An oversimplification. We've been down this road before, in this very thread, but basically it concerns the influence of the gun lobbyists on our politicians.

    Even so, we do have strict gun laws in certain areas (Chicago, for instance).

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    Slightly off topic: We have Putin's asset as POTUS, we have the Saudi influence, Russian assassination, Saudi assassination, infiltration into the NRA, a massive famine caused by war in which MILLIONS are set to die, a possible American civil war brewing, and the GOP complicit in the whole thing. Anyone wanna see a new James Bond movie dealing with some madman trying to take over the world just about now???
    I'd like to see this real world mess halted first....
  • A question that I find consistently irritating is the idea of the “Deep State”. In the United States there are the Republicans, who tend towards a conservative view of governance. There are the Democrats, who are generally defined as having a liberal view of governance. Members of these two groups oppose each other, and defend their positions, as is to be expected. Then there are members of the extreme left and extreme right, who’s only position towards governance, seems to be anarchy in any form. While the extremist appear to oppose each other their methods for projecting their particular political ideals are the identically the same, they prefer violence. Referring for a moment back to the Democrats and Republicans, there appear to be those who favor the methods of the extremist but try to remain respectable. For instance the Inspector General of the United States has found that members of the United States State Department deliberately perjured themselves to protect the Secretary of State’s need to hide email communications that perhaps should have been public knowledge though politically damaging, and it is widely accepted that a former advisor to the current President is favored by extremist on the far right. I’ve no idea if anything that could actually be called the “Deep State” really does exist, but certainly on the whole the only people who seem intent on disrupting the normal functions of government are those extremist who will go to any length to create and support violence or perhaps the illusion of violence through generalized fear. Which by the way, is not to say that Republicans or Democrats perpetuate this idea of anarchy, yet both seem to find the violence associated with it as a convenient way of finger pointing at the opposite party.

    By the way @chrisisall, we of the “low life” community understand that we exist simply as cannon fodder, our skins being completely worthless except as carpeting for those of Royal and Noble stations in life to tread upon. Thank you for your earlier posted concern, but like the “untouchables”, we are fully aware of what life has to offer us. The trifling of the poor and meek is of little concern for those of higher stations in life. As is often noted, “Rank has its’ Privileges”.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    While the extremist appear to oppose each other their methods for projecting their particular political ideals are the identically the same, they prefer violence.
    I see that on the right, clear as day.
    But on the left? *Looks around* All I see is a (very) small group named Antifa that consists of masked dudes that occasionally attempt to kick some Nazi butt. That's not the left, and it's an extremely tiny percentage of even the far, far left.

    Fox news has done its evil work on your perceptions, I see.
    Please, rip that 'low life' label off yourself.
    ;)

  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Slightly off topic: We have Putin's asset as POTUS, we have the Saudi influence, Russian assassination, Saudi assassination, infiltration into the NRA, a massive famine caused by war in which MILLIONS are set to die, a possible American civil war brewing, and the GOP complicit in the whole thing. Anyone wanna see a new James Bond movie dealing with some madman trying to take over the world just about now???
    I'd like to see this real world mess halted first....

    Art reflects life, @chris. If we can see how 007 would fix this mess, it might give us some ideas on how we should proceed...
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Escalus5 wrote: »

    Wow, these articles have been really helpful. So a random dude in Norway generalizes a population of 325 million as lacking in nuance based on his anecdotal experiences? Truly eye-opening research you've got there, Ross.
    Thank you, I thought it was a pretty good result for twenty seconds of online search. Even managed to check if it had the right stereotypes in there just in case somebody might actually click on the link.
    Don't worry, everybody generalizes all groups of people that can be adressed by the same (or a similar) moniker. This obviously was just to poke fun at that norwegian guy @Thunderfinger who's always asking for proof (as we obviously are misled by the fake news) but never himself comes up with anything substantial to support his own, often questionable claims.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    @Escalus5 if that were true and America would be a democracy, wouldn't there be gun control? As in Demos=people Cratos=Strength. Or is this an oversimplification?

    An oversimplification. We've been down this road before, in this very thread, but basically it concerns the influence of the gun lobbyists on our politicians.

    Even so, we do have strict gun laws in certain areas (Chicago, for instance).
    Yes, and I understand that, but there's often a solid truth in simplifications: can you still call a country a democracy as not the will of the people, but the will of corporations and/ or lobby groups is the main steering factor for politics.

    The problem is that we're always so strongly opined about how people should've behaved in the 1930ies, but when you live in times where boundaries are pushed, we end up with a majority accepting those new boundaries time and time again, even defending the purpetrator.

    @chrisisall it so happens it was a far-left animal rights activist who commited the first political murder in my country in over 400 years. Antifa are as agressive as the far right, allthough they may as yet not have the same tradition of violence the far right in the US have. But don't worry, they'll catch up.

    Now in some good news:
    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/25/africa/ethiopia-first-female-president-intl/index.html

    Ethiopia is on a straight course to peace and prosperity, and I only just found out (it's not only about the President).

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Let's also remember that "antifa" is a made up word that has been demonized totally. It stands for "anti-Fascist", which I hope we all are. I think the "horseshoe effect" has been posted on here before, but I will find something and put it here later. Adversaries of the U.S. play both sides against each other and have their own people on both sides to keep ratcheting up the violence, confusion, and chaos with inflammable lies, memes, photoshopped pictures, fake articles, fake sources, and anything else imaginable. The goal is to take down our democracy.
    I believe facts show that the far right extremists (to put it in the most neutral term I can) are considerably more violent in reality than any group on the far left (in the U.S.). With so much in the news happening, I don't want to dwell on this, though. But I mention it as it was talked about briefly in above posts.

    Trump and The Caravan: How to inflame fear for his benefit.
    The lies and pushing of fear/anger/bigotry is ramping up more and more as midterm elections are on our doorstep. They are not close to our border yet. They are not filled with "Middle Eastern" people. They have a right, by our U.S. laws, to arrived at the border and seek asylum. That is not illegal.


    Also ... sending Federal troops, if actually done, is a serious step.
    It does not bode well as Trump has been hinting at martial law interference for some time, certainly more recently. His rhetoric of "terrorists" "assaults" "criminals" and all his accusations are building. Mexcan police are weak but he is strong.
    It is sick. Wrong. UnAmerican, and against our basic principles. So yes, we need to keep an eye on this situation; which is one that he is clearly making (and GOP supporting rabidly to deter people from voting Democrat).

    As always you can click into the tweet for the further comments.
    Such as retired Lt. General Hertling here:
  • @chrisisall If I read your post correctly, then your point is that I must be influenced by Fox News if I find that the violence of the left is no different than the violence of the right. That presents an interesting logic in your thought process, and no, I actually don’t watch Fox news. As far as the violence of the left as defined in modern times, history records The Weathermen, a faction of the SDS, founded by Bill Ayers. They launched a bombing campaign against government and commercial buildings, eventually blowing up several of their own members and burning down a townhouse in New York City or the Symbionese Liberation Army if you like, which robbed banks, committed murder, and kidnapping, just to name two in particular. In fact by the mid 90’s acts of violence by left wing groups accounted for three-fourths of all domestic violence in the United States. In general where the right to peaceful protest is accepted, violence isn’t a part of that definition. Self-defense is a commonly accepted ideal, but in most places the courts stipulate its’ use is in lieu of not being able to escape from the threat. Personally I can’t see a valid reason for defending either the extreme left or the extreme right, especially since it is usually innocent people who get hurt most of the time.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2018 Posts: 12,480
    There has been violence, through the years, are both left and right - but the far right has indeed committed more violent acts through the decades and certainly recently. I include all the KKK, violence against Civil Rights advocates, white supremists. You can find stats and memes promoting both sides as the "least violent." I do not want to go back and forth on this.

    But I do believe it is certainly not a case of "both sides are the same" or "both sides do it" (implying the same). Violence is wrong, and one of the things has hold our democracy, our country, together is that we make changes by voting not by violence. That's important. In no way is Chris, or anyone on here that I know, promoting violence being okay by anybody.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    @chrisisall If I read your post correctly, then your point is that I must be influenced by Fox News if I find that the violence of the left is no different than the violence of the right. That presents an interesting logic in your thought process, and no, I actually don’t watch Fox news.
    Then I stand corrected.
    As far as the violence of the left as defined in modern times, history records The Weathermen, a faction of the SDS, founded by Bill Ayers. They launched a bombing campaign against government and commercial buildings, eventually blowing up several of their own members and burning down a townhouse in New York City or the Symbionese Liberation Army if you like, which robbed banks, committed murder, and kidnapping, just to name two in particular.
    Not modern times, last Century. And not big groups, tiny nut-case ones.
    In fact by the mid 90’s acts of violence by left wing groups accounted for three-fourths of all domestic violence in the United States.
    Mind if I ask for a source on that?
    In general where the right to peaceful protest is accepted, violence isn’t a part of that definition. Self-defense is a commonly accepted ideal, but in most places the courts stipulate its’ use is in lieu of not being able to escape from the threat. Personally I can’t see a valid reason for defending either the extreme left or the extreme right, especially since it is usually innocent people who get hurt most of the time.
    Here we have mostly common ground, with the exception that when violence is presented to one in the form of Nazism, there is a preferred response other than retreating...
    A1b03oi.jpg

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    If you want individual cases, @chrisisall, here is this. But again, the far right have their own stats. I really don't want to clog this thread with this.

    Point is: violence is never okay. We have legitimate reason to be wary about the far right and far left (because their goals are the same; chaos and destruction). They are not the majority of Americans, thankfully, but we have to keep track of this, of course. And speak up against violence. Every time.
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1051973730824409088.html


  • edited October 2018 Posts: 3,566

    Point is: violence is never okay.

    Much as I hate to disagree with you, @4Ever, let's remember what Sir Sean told us decades back: Never Say Never (Again.) Speaking as a lifelong pacifist, I have to say that in certain extreme circumstances, violence is indeed the appropriate response. When confronting Nazis, punch early, punch often, and punch for keeps. If punching Nazis is good enough for Indiana Jones and Captain America, who am I to say them nay?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804

    Point is: violence is never okay.

    Much as I hate to disagree with you, @4Ever, let's remember what Sir Sean told us decades back: Never Say Never (Again.) Speaking as a lifelong pacifist, I have to say that in certain extreme circumstances, violence is indeed the appropriate response. When confronting Nazis, punch early, punch often, and punch for keeps. If punching Nazis is good enough for Indiana Jones and Captain America, who am I to say them nay?

    As a lifelong martial arts guy, I believe in the Shaolin way.
    "Avoid, rather than check. Check, rather than hurt. Hurt, rather than maim. Maim, rather than kill. For all life is precious, nor can any be replaced."
    However...
    "Challenge the wind, and reap the whirlwind."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I think violence is never okay ... with very few exceptions. Genuine self defense being one. And at war is a different circumstance.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    The invasion/swarm is coming to the USA.
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 572
    Re: Violence and Voting Ethics

    Let's assume I try to best vote for candidates strictly on the policies that I feel best benefit the country (ignoring theatrics). Given that condition, if a candidate I want to vote for is one who is associated with a party that is linked with recent acts of violence (inadvertently or not), does that mean I should not vote for that candidate?


    Point is: violence is never okay.

    Much as I hate to disagree with you, @4Ever, let's remember what Sir Sean told us decades back: Never Say Never (Again.) Speaking as a lifelong pacifist, I have to say that in certain extreme circumstances, violence is indeed the appropriate response. When confronting Nazis, punch early, punch often, and punch for keeps. If punching Nazis is good enough for Indiana Jones and Captain America, who am I to say them nay?
    If an individual does not self-identify as a Nazi, how do you determine if they are one? At what point of their actions does it make it ok to incite violence against them (particularly if they are just saber rattling)?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2018 Posts: 12,480
    Yes, Trump and now the GOP (and right wing media) are happy to use those words, along with "assault" "terrorists" "war" "criminals" etc. I think he has also said "vermin" and "pests".

    Trump is trying to forge a new path regarding immigration now by blocking immigrants (who are allowed to come into our country and ask for asylum) - but he also is surely aware how inflammatory this is and a great way to cause distraction from things like actual bombs being sent to Democrats and media. Trump knows that fearmongering, and the immigration issue, is his big ticket with his base and the media gobbles it up because it is inflammatory, sometimes outlandish what he says or proposes to do.



    So yes, I think he will keep ramping things up. On purpose. He does not honestly or consistently try to talk down violence. Just the opposite, actually, in speech after speech. That is his style, and his history shows that; let's remember he was mentored by disgraced, disbarred Roy Cohn.
    (This article is from January of this year)
    https://www.npr.org/2018/01/07/576209428/president-trump-called-for-roy-cohn-but-roy-cohn-was-gone
  • edited October 2018 Posts: 3,566
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Re: Violence and Voting Ethics

    Let's assume I try to best vote for candidates strictly on the policies that I feel best benefit the country (ignoring theatrics). Given that condition, if a candidate I want to vote for is one who is associated with a party that is linked with recent acts of violence (inadvertently or not), does that mean I should not vote for that candidate?


    Point is: violence is never okay.

    Much as I hate to disagree with you, @4Ever, let's remember what Sir Sean told us decades back: Never Say Never (Again.) Speaking as a lifelong pacifist, I have to say that in certain extreme circumstances, violence is indeed the appropriate response. When confronting Nazis, punch early, punch often, and punch for keeps. If punching Nazis is good enough for Indiana Jones and Captain America, who am I to say them nay?
    If an individual does not self-identify as a Nazi, how do you determine if they are one? At what point of their actions does it make it ok to incite violence against them (particularly if they are just saber rattling)?

    I'm surprised some questions have to be asked. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and has feathers like a duck you can bloody well assume it's a duck. If it's got brown shirts Proud Boys like a Nazi and demonizes Jews Muslims like a Nazi and practices The Big Lie like Donald Trump a Nazi then I don't care what it calls itself; it's a stinking Nazi and I don't want it anywhere near my White House. Let's not kid ourselves -- if it's only sabre rattling right now then we need to stop it before the sabre becomes a bone saw and that bone saw is being used against, oh, let's say journalists that live in America and work for American newspapers. Have I made myself perfectly clear or am I being just a tad bit too allegorical for you? Okay, in words no greater than two syllables: right now, the R Party has become the Trump Party and needs to be put down. Hard. The R Party can re-make itself once it has purged the Trump sickness from its bloated body and at that point decent people can think about voting R again without fearing that they are actually supporting a fascist. But for now, there are only 2 choices as I see them: Vote Blue no matter who, or vote Red and this country might as well be dead.

    PS: Please don't go 3rd Party on me right now. I've voted 3rd Party in the past; I've even campaigned for 3rd Party candidates in the past. I've also voted for Republicans in the past. No many, true -- but a few. Right now it's a binary choice, and pushing the button for the Red candidate is saying you agree with Trump and want him to continue on his selfish, evil, destructive path.
  • The invasion/swarm is coming to the USA.

    Be afraid, be very afraid. Snowflake. Or be like Lady Liberty and lift your lamp beside the golden door.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Trumps'reaction to a couple of immigrants is indeed very much like a historical figure in the early thirties (mind: he wrote tat book in 1924) of the last century. He's minorities skapegoats, and 800 defenseless civilians into an invading army.
This discussion has been closed.