Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • edited December 2018 Posts: 3,333
    peter wrote: »
    Mrs. Bondsum dragged me to the Fifty Shades of Grey movies,
    ... Please say it was worth it in at least one way, @bondsum??
    The last one I drew a line over. Mrs. Bondsum had to contend with seeing that one by herself. She seemed to enjoy it.
    Well I would expect women and men to judge women and men in a different way (strictly talking heterosexual here). Coming back to that later.
    I share your 50 shades experience, as I have no doubt all men in that theatre did. My Bond-experience however is completely different. I had a female friend of mine asking me to accompany her, because she wanted to see CR in the cinema. My wife also loves action-adventure movies. Not the shoot-them-up Stratham action films, but thankfully Bond has far more to offer then that. @Tuulia herself doesn't need to be dragged, as most other female fans who frequent(ed) the forums, and over the years there have been quite a few. I've also seen groups of female friends go to Bondfilms in the past. admittedly my run is only from GE onwards, but especially the Craig-films have had quite the appeal.

    And that brings be back to @Tuulia's point: Craig may be masculine, he brings far more to Bond then the (mispercieved, later more on that) alpha male role. He brings depth to the character. To quote said female friend after CR: "Now I know why he treats women the way he does". Bond, especially the Fleming incarnation, has always been human, with his weaknesses. He appeals bcause he's got an iron will to overcome hardship and difficulty (to the point you might think he's addicted). It's this human connection that makes him far more appealing to the female audience.

    Your idea of alpha male is, I'm afraid, misconceaved. https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_the_surprising_science_of_alpha_males

    And that makes sense. Because, also without looking at those online lists, I would at least add Tom Hanks, Gary Oldman and Tom Cruise to that list. Now I know the latter is very fit, but he's nowhere near 'The Rock', who, by the way, is an Alpha male due to his behaviour more then his muscles. Johnson is famous for helping people who're in trouble and bringing parties together.

    It was never my intention to "mansplain" @Tuulia as you so eloquently put it @CommanderRoss. Is that a modern ninety-niners' pejorative term, by the way? My only intention was to offer an invite to the "small" female fan-base for their future choices, though I did happen to add that Bond had a bigger male following than it did a female one, and that the final choice shouldn't be dictated by female cinemagoers for that reason. If anything, I felt Tuulia was "womansplaining" me with her opening gambit of not agreeing with what I said and then deciding to dissect my comments.

    Okay, let's first address your female friend asking to be chaperoned to CR. I'm unsure of the circumstances. Did she ask because she knew that the audience would be mostly made-up of males, or does she not like going to the cinema alone and none of her female friends wanted to go-see a Bond movie so she asked you instead? Either way, it doesn't prove anything.

    Again, I'm not saying Bond movies can't have its female admirers, just that they're in far smaller numbers. From my own observations it was Brosnan that caused the major upswing and brought in the women flocking to the aisles, especially with him being somewhat of a pretty-boy pin-up and someone that they could finally salivate over. Roger Moore didn't have that, nor did Dalton if I'm brutally honest. The bigger question here is: would these same Brosnan admirers have gone to see GE had a less favourable pin-up appeared in the role instead? Considering it was Brosnan that drew them to the movie in the first place, I'd have to say a big, emphatic "No." In other words, they hadn't shown any interest in Bond until Brosnan was cast and are not Bond fans per se.

    With regards to your adding Tom Hanks and Gary Oldman to the "guy's actor" list, I wouldn't be so bold. Hanks was made popular by a previous generation of cinemagoers, not the current one, and doesn't command the same following as he once did. That was another reason why I left Harrison Ford and Sylvester Stallone off the list. Gary Oldman, though not in the same league as Hanks, was also an actor from a previous generation. I might argue that Oldman didn't really have too much success at headlining a movie, mostly playing villains to other A-list actors. I'll give you Cruise who does seem to be able to keep pulling in audiences to some degree, depending on what movie he's in. But none of those actors are the current BO stars that headline and pull in the "ninety-niner" audiences any more like The Rock, Jason Statham and Mark Wahlberg continue to do.

    As for your comment: my "idea of alpha male is, I'm afraid, misconceived" and then posting a video from primatologist Frans de Waal on alpha males among chimpanzees and how humans too have a striking similarity, I'm left somewhat bemused. Maybe you can post a video on how chimpanzees react to a Bond film as well? And no, I didn't watch what Frans de Waal had to say either. Why would I? That wasn't the thrust of my original post.

    Anyway, back on topic...
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
    A wise decision.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
    A wise decision.
    One tries.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited December 2018 Posts: 2,541
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
    A wise decision.
    One tries.

    Why are these in spoiler, is it because we were talking about James bond(age) parody?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
    A wise decision.
    One tries.

    Why are these in spoiler, is it because we were talking about James bond(age) parody?

    No, just to make people curious. ;)
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Monty Norman is still alive. :))

    Oh my apologies didn't knew that than I guess Maurice has to dance all alone.
    @Resurrection, visit the “Making Fun of Your Favourite Spy” thread for more. Believe me, you’ve got more to see from Mr. Joes’ Ladies First sessions. :))

    Thanks for the free publicity, @ClarkDevlin!
    A hundred thousand dollars is enough for your services, I trust?
    It was my pleasure, @mattjoes.
    And besides, how can a friend be in debt? ;)
    Good. I did consider making it a quarter of a million, if you know what I mean ;)
    Thank you, but no thank you. I'd like to keep my winnings abreast. In this case... my wellbeing. ;)
    A wise decision.
    One tries.

    Why are these in spoiler, is it because we were talking about James bond(age) parody?
    No, just to make people curious. ;)
    Classified information. ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    bondsum wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    Mrs. Bondsum dragged me to the Fifty Shades of Grey movies,
    ... Please say it was worth it in at least one way, @bondsum??
    The last one I drew a line over. Mrs. Bondsum had to contend with seeing that one by herself. She seemed to enjoy it.
    Well I would expect women and men to judge women and men in a different way (strictly talking heterosexual here). Coming back to that later.
    I share your 50 shades experience, as I have no doubt all men in that theatre did. My Bond-experience however is completely different. I had a female friend of mine asking me to accompany her, because she wanted to see CR in the cinema. My wife also loves action-adventure movies. Not the shoot-them-up Stratham action films, but thankfully Bond has far more to offer then that. @Tuulia herself doesn't need to be dragged, as most other female fans who frequent(ed) the forums, and over the years there have been quite a few. I've also seen groups of female friends go to Bondfilms in the past. admittedly my run is only from GE onwards, but especially the Craig-films have had quite the appeal.

    And that brings be back to @Tuulia's point: Craig may be masculine, he brings far more to Bond then the (mispercieved, later more on that) alpha male role. He brings depth to the character. To quote said female friend after CR: "Now I know why he treats women the way he does". Bond, especially the Fleming incarnation, has always been human, with his weaknesses. He appeals bcause he's got an iron will to overcome hardship and difficulty (to the point you might think he's addicted). It's this human connection that makes him far more appealing to the female audience.

    Your idea of alpha male is, I'm afraid, misconceaved. https://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_the_surprising_science_of_alpha_males

    And that makes sense. Because, also without looking at those online lists, I would at least add Tom Hanks, Gary Oldman and Tom Cruise to that list. Now I know the latter is very fit, but he's nowhere near 'The Rock', who, by the way, is an Alpha male due to his behaviour more then his muscles. Johnson is famous for helping people who're in trouble and bringing parties together.

    It was never my intention to "mansplain" @Tuulia as you so eloquently put it @CommanderRoss. Is that a modern ninety-niners' pejorative term, by the way? My only intention was to offer an invite to the "small" female fan-base for their future choices, though I did happen to add that Bond had a bigger male following than it did a female one, and that the final choice shouldn't be dictated by female cinemagoers for that reason. If anything, I felt Tuulia was "womansplaining" me with her opening gambit of not agreeing with what I said and then deciding to dissect my comments.
    @Tuulia started by saying: 'I don't agree',and indeed disected your comments following that, but that's what you do in a discussion. You, however, replied to that with a personal attack.
    bondsum wrote: »
    Don't take offence @Tuulia. If you can't accept that men and women have an entirely different perspective on what they like to see in an male actor or movies, then you're purblind to the obvious.

    Disqualifying your opponent isn't a very strong discussion technique, especially not when it has a whim of disqualifying because of the other beeing of the opposite sex. Now I'll admit you didn't say it directly, but again it did seem to have that implication. And that's called 'mansplaining'. I haven't got a clue who coined the term.
    bondsum wrote: »
    Okay, let's first address your female friend asking to be chaperoned to CR. I'm unsure of the circumstances. Did she ask because she knew that the audience would be mostly made-up of males, or does she not like going to the cinema alone and none of her female friends wanted to go-see a Bond movie so she asked you instead? Either way, it doesn't prove anything.
    She was living in Bangkok at the time, and I was visiting her. She knows I'm a bit of a Bond-fan. She herself is too. I guess I was the go-to friend for the occasion. Don't worry, she's seen them all in cinemas, and usually not with me, but indeed with her female friends.
    bondsum wrote: »
    Again, I'm not saying Bond movies can't have its female admirers, just that they're in far smaller numbers. From my own observations it was Brosnan that caused the major upswing and brought in the women flocking to the aisles, especially with him being somewhat of a pretty-boy pin-up and someone that they could finally salivate over. Roger Moore didn't have that, nor did Dalton if I'm brutally honest. The bigger question here is: would these same Brosnan admirers have gone to see GE had a less favourable pin-up appeared in the role instead? Considering it was Brosnan that drew them to the movie in the first place, I'd have to say a big, emphatic "No." In other words, they hadn't shown any interest in Bond until Brosnan was cast and are not Bond fans per se.
    On the premises of what do you come to this conclusion? AFAK in the olden days gender roles were pushed so far that it would be rather strange for women to go to a 'men's film'. Even now cinema's organise 'ladies'nights'. Stereotypes live by the fact that there's a base of truth in them, and Bond certainly started out as a male fantasy. But just as more and more men don't feel ashamed to go to a romcom alone, more and more women dare to go to action movies and enjoy them.
    In other words, had Moore been Bond in the nineties, he might've had the same effect.
    bondsum wrote: »
    With regards to your adding Tom Hanks and Gary Oldman to the "guy's actor" list, I wouldn't be so bold. Hanks was made popular by a previous generation of cinemagoers, not the current one, and doesn't command the same following as he once did. That was another reason why I left Harrison Ford and Sylvester Stallone off the list. Gary Oldman, though not in the same league as Hanks, was also an actor from a previous generation. I might argue that Oldman didn't really have too much success at headlining a movie, mostly playing villains to other A-list actors. I'll give you Cruise who does seem to be able to keep pulling in audiences to some degree, depending on what movie he's in. But none of those actors are the current BO stars that headline and pull in the "ninety-niner" audiences any more like The Rock, Jason Statham and Mark Wahlberg continue to do.
    I think there's a huge difference between European audiences and American audiences when it comes to this. None of the actors you mention have that effect on the public in at least my country. We only see about 20% of hollywood films produced anyway as many aren't expected to end up beeing hits here. Not any bigger anyway then the ones I mentioned.
    bondsum wrote: »
    As for your comment: my "idea of alpha male is, I'm afraid, misconceived" and then posting a video from primatologist Frans de Waal on alpha males among chimpanzees and how humans too have a striking similarity, I'm left somewhat bemused. Maybe you can post a video on how chimpanzees react to a Bond film as well? And no, I didn't watch what Frans de Waal had to say either. Why would I? That wasn't the thrust of my original post.

    Anyway, back on topic...

    Interesting. You are aware of the fact that the whole idea of alpha male is based on what we learned from primates in the first place? So your view of the alpha male is just as much based on our cousins' as mine. Except for the minor difference I like to keep up with my science.
    I think most chimps would love to see a good Bond film if it could be translated to their tongue. AFAK that hasn't happened yet.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I bet chimpanzees love Octopussy.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    I bet chimpanzees love Octopussy.

    Octopussy doesn't love chimpanzees, though.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Kinky.....
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    I know it's nearly Christmas and all that, but......back on topic.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited December 2018 Posts: 8,331
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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    giphy.gif
    I'll take her over Madeleine Swann any day of the week. ;)
  • Posts: 17,819
    giphy.gif
    I'll take her over Madeleine Swann any day of the week. ;)

    Rather have both, actually. :-D
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    giphy.gif
    I'll take her over Madeleine Swann any day of the week. ;)
    Rather have both, actually. :-D
    Of the two doctors, Dr. Swann is the one never to shut up, so I'll just settle for Dr. Jones. ;)
  • Posts: 17,819
    giphy.gif
    I'll take her over Madeleine Swann any day of the week. ;)
    Rather have both, actually. :-D
    Of the two doctors, Dr. Swann is the one never to shut up, so I'll just settle for Dr. Jones. ;)

    Haha, good point! :))
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    Actors are more important than ever - but so are directors. If Christopher Nolan does Bond 26 we already know Hardy will be Bond, It won't matter if he is too old or not.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Actors are more important than ever - but so are directors. If Christopher Nolan does Bond 26 we already know Hardy will be Bond, It won't matter if he is too old or not.

    Not a given...

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/screenrant.com/james-bond-christopher-nolan-tom-hardy-role/amp/

    Well he did give him a ringing endorsement. And the two have collaborated on 3 out of the last four Nolan projects. So either he's Bond or the villain.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    I think he would want to put his on stamp on the character, and as much as he favors Hardy I believe he will go younger, and with someone who isn’t quite established.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    I think people are getting far too carried away with Nolan directing Bond 26 comments. Nothing to suggest he will.
    Even worse is thinking Tom Hardy would be cast as Bond, purely because he’s worked on 3 of Nolan’s last four movies. So has Michael Caine and Cillian Murphy. They must be in contention as well.
    Crystal balls should be put away before they hurt someone. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2018 Posts: 23,883
    This is a crystal ball thread, so I don't see the harm on that front. We are one film away from that moment.

    I can't personally see Hardy getting the gig after Craig (too similar as far as I'm concerned), & the rationale that he's a given just because he's worked with Nolan is perhaps flawed. I can definitely see him being cast as a villain (perhaps another OO6 type character), which could create great buzz. Cillian Murphy has an opportunity as a secondary character.

    I hope Nolan gets a crack at it one day, but I can't see it happening under Babs. If the younger Wilson takes over then perhaps it may, because he has been more vocal about Nolan in the past.

    When they get round to B26 I think anything is on the table. From what we've read, there are several directors who would be interested in taking it on at that point, many of whom have already had discussions with EON (including Nolan).
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,252
    Benny wrote: »
    I think people are getting far too carried away with Nolan directing Bond 26 comments. Nothing to suggest he will.
    Even worse is thinking Tom Hardy would be cast as Bond, purely because he’s worked on 3 of Nolan’s last four movies. So has Michael Caine and Cillian Murphy. They must be in contention as well.
    Crystal balls should be put away before they hurt someone. ;)

    That’s why I used the word “would” and not “will” ;)

  • Posts: 15,229
    Benny wrote: »
    I think people are getting far too carried away with Nolan directing Bond 26 comments. Nothing to suggest he will.
    Even worse is thinking Tom Hardy would be cast as Bond, purely because he’s worked on 3 of Nolan’s last four movies. So has Michael Caine and Cillian Murphy. They must be in contention as well.
    Crystal balls should be put away before they hurt someone. ;)

    Words of wisdom. People complain that SF is too much like TDK and TDKR, yet they want Nolan to direct and to make a Bond Batman with the same cast apparently. Even if Nolan was to direct one day, which is unlikely at the moment, he could do a different casting. At least nobody wants Tim Burton to direct a Bond movie, or else people here would be clamoring for Johnny Depp as Bond!
  • Posts: 5,767
    I think we should not mix up too much People and individuals. Certainly those who complain About Mendes´ two Bond films being too much like Nolan´s Batfilms are not the same individuals who want Nolan to direct a Bond film ;-).
  • Posts: 1,661
    I would take Chris Nolan's praise for Hardy as Bond with a pinch of salt. Given their past work and obvious friendship he'd probably recommend Hardy for any role. "He'd be amazing as Donald Trump/Oprah Winfrey/Roger Rabbit!" :P

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