Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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Comments

  • You people are paranoid. The next Bond actor will be a white man.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    mtm wrote: »
    00Heaven wrote: »
    What's going on with that dude's Prince Charles fingers?

    It’s for the best that you never look at Q’s fingers… :))

    Good point.
  • Posts: 9,846
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    You people are paranoid. The next Bond actor will be a white man.

    We shall see
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    You people are paranoid. The next Bond actor will be a white man.

    It's not paranoia, I welcome either option, but IMO for Barbara to say "the next Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity", and then to cast a white guy anyways, I think that would be viewed as a step backward.

    I'm not advocating for or against, just saying what I think will happen. For the record the ethnicity of whomever they cast as Bond isn't a big issue for me.
  • Posts: 12,466
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.
  • cwl007cwl007 England
    Posts: 611
    +1 on the ethnicity being a non issue.
    (And I too think Bond No'7 won't be a white actor)
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    You people are paranoid. The next Bond actor will be a white man.

    Michael Jai White, perhaps?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,546
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,466
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Right - and let's not forget, only half of the actors so far (Moore, Dalton, Craig) are actually British. If someone not from Bond's home country can play him, why not a man who isn't white? How is it really more of a big deal than a blonde-haired James Bond? Bond being heterosexual and suave are INTERNAL characteristics that is something that should not change, but as far as external, we've already had multiple hair colors, eye colors, heights, voices. The main thing that matters is how Bond acts.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,366
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Yes indeed, totally with you on all of that. Bond's not going to change gender any time soon, and Ms Broccolli has even made that clear!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Right - and let's not forget, only half of the actors so far (Moore, Dalton, Craig) are actually British. If someone not from Bond's home country can play him, why not a man who isn't white? How is it really more of a big deal than a blonde-haired James Bond? Bond being heterosexual and suave are INTERNAL characteristics that is something that should not change, but as far as external, we've already had multiple hair colors, eye colors, heights, voices. The main thing that matters is how Bond acts.

    Well, I don't want to be pedantic, but Sean Connery was British too! :)
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 12,466
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Yes indeed, totally with you on all of that. Bond's not going to change gender any time soon, and Ms Broccolli has even made that clear!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Right - and let's not forget, only half of the actors so far (Moore, Dalton, Craig) are actually British. If someone not from Bond's home country can play him, why not a man who isn't white? How is it really more of a big deal than a blonde-haired James Bond? Bond being heterosexual and suave are INTERNAL characteristics that is something that should not change, but as far as external, we've already had multiple hair colors, eye colors, heights, voices. The main thing that matters is how Bond acts.

    Well, I don't want to be pedantic, but Sean Connery was British too! :)

    Oof - being the uneducated fellow I am about geography, I didn't realize Scotland was a part of the UK x ( but yes, my point remains x'P
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Yes indeed, totally with you on all of that. Bond's not going to change gender any time soon, and Ms Broccolli has even made that clear!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Right - and let's not forget, only half of the actors so far (Moore, Dalton, Craig) are actually British. If someone not from Bond's home country can play him, why not a man who isn't white? How is it really more of a big deal than a blonde-haired James Bond? Bond being heterosexual and suave are INTERNAL characteristics that is something that should not change, but as far as external, we've already had multiple hair colors, eye colors, heights, voices. The main thing that matters is how Bond acts.

    Well, I don't want to be pedantic, but Sean Connery was British too! :)

    Oof - being the uneducated fellow I am about geography, I didn't realize Scotland was a part of the UK x ( but yes, my point remains x'P

    Well, Scotland is part of the UK, but it's also a part of Britain, which is an important distinction because Northern Ireland is UK but *not* Britain.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,366
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Yes indeed, totally with you on all of that. Bond's not going to change gender any time soon, and Ms Broccolli has even made that clear!
    FoxRox wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    Right - and let's not forget, only half of the actors so far (Moore, Dalton, Craig) are actually British. If someone not from Bond's home country can play him, why not a man who isn't white? How is it really more of a big deal than a blonde-haired James Bond? Bond being heterosexual and suave are INTERNAL characteristics that is something that should not change, but as far as external, we've already had multiple hair colors, eye colors, heights, voices. The main thing that matters is how Bond acts.

    Well, I don't want to be pedantic, but Sean Connery was British too! :)

    Oof - being the uneducated fellow I am about geography, I didn't realize Scotland was a part of the UK x ( but yes, my point remains x'P

    Well, Scotland is part of the UK, but it's also a part of Britain, which is an important distinction because Northern Ireland is UK but *not* Britain.

    Northern Ireland is part of the British Isles, which Ireland is also part of; and also the British Islands, which Ireland is not part of. But neither are part of Great Britain, which is the big island :) Yes, it's confusing!
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Nobody made consensus back in 2004. Not Owen, not anyone. I'm not even sure Owen was that popular a prospect. That's what made that time so interesting: an interesting pool of potential candidates, but no heir apparent. And I will also add that Turner does not make consensus now.

    Depends on your definition of consensus within this little democracy we call mi6community. A while ago a lot of members voted and Turner won by a landslide, so in a way a consensus I'd argue.

    Jack O’Connell could batter Aidan Turner in a fight.

    IF Jack could only hit Turner, that is. He does look like a cute miniature bouncer. Turner looks like Bond.

    tumblr_lmrd3pwyeZ1qlroiio1_500.gif

    Also, please no more Fukunaga. He's a little too woke for me these days.

    Bring back the man, the myth Martin Campbell. One last time.

    The "myth" is right, because reality is different. Martin Campbell couldn't direct his way out of a paper bag. That's why he hasn't done jack squat since Casino Royale, which was almost ruined by some of his lazy choices.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I didn't realize Scotland was a part of the UK
    Don't worry - Connery was a Scottish Nationalist, if it'd been up to him Scotland would've been out of the UK decades ago! ;)
  • Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.
  • Posts: 9,846
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    I hope you are right
  • Posts: 16,153
    I think if Barbara decides to mix things up a bit, change Bond's ethnicity, job occupation, or anything else, yet still keep him a British male, then look no further.............
    the new James Bond...................
    a9b9eff4d9ba313341a604bee220b422.jpg
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    I agree.

  • JeremyBondonJeremyBondon Seeking out odd jobs with Oddjob @Tangier
    Posts: 1,318
    TripAces wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Nobody made consensus back in 2004. Not Owen, not anyone. I'm not even sure Owen was that popular a prospect. That's what made that time so interesting: an interesting pool of potential candidates, but no heir apparent. And I will also add that Turner does not make consensus now.

    Depends on your definition of consensus within this little democracy we call mi6community. A while ago a lot of members voted and Turner won by a landslide, so in a way a consensus I'd argue.

    Jack O’Connell could batter Aidan Turner in a fight.

    IF Jack could only hit Turner, that is. He does look like a cute miniature bouncer. Turner looks like Bond.

    tumblr_lmrd3pwyeZ1qlroiio1_500.gif

    Also, please no more Fukunaga. He's a little too woke for me these days.

    Bring back the man, the myth Martin Campbell. One last time.

    The "myth" is right, because reality is different. Martin Campbell couldn't direct his way out of a paper bag. That's why he hasn't done jack squat since Casino Royale, which was almost ruined by some of his lazy choices.

    Have you even watched GoldenEye and Casino Royale? Do you grasp their impact on Bond as a brand? To me the only two great Bond films since GoldenEye. Both directed by Campbell. Campbell over Fukunaga any day, as NTTD kind of sucked (again).

    Also, I am sick and tired of all the pandering and virtue signalling these days. I'll make it simple. If Bond is anything other than white caucasian, a Brit, then I will look back fondly to the good old days and consider myself rich in rewatching my Favourite Bond films such as FRWL, GF, TLD, LTK. In that case Bond is dead to me, truly dead, not the bs in NTTD.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    While I nod along in agreement - and I think the idea that race is somewhere in between unimportant traits and integral ones is fundamentally sound - I do wonder how much sense it makes to cast a non-white actor and then not make that a literal part of the character.
    What I mean by that is that I would expect a story about a man with f.e. Indian heritage being the top assassin of Her Majesty's Secret Service to at some point have something to say about the history of state violence the British Empire inflicted upon Indian people in the past. To me that just is something someone who kills people for Queen and Country would have to reckon with. Especially in a time of Black Lives Matter and so on. But that isn't James Bond's story. At all. That would add something to the inner live of him that really wasn't ever there.
    So could they just never adress the fact that he isn't white and have it not be strange or could there be a way to adress it without breaking with the original character?
    Or am I just being racist by imposing what I think a non-white character would and wouldn't have to care about on them?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,366
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    Or maybe she actually does think differently to you.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It would be most consistent to the novels if he was white, but I feel like it doesn’t matter as long as he retains the most base characteristics every Bond has had. I feel like elements of actors like Moore and Brosnan are so different from the novel Bond anyway that a different skin color than white shouldn’t be something to nitpick either.

    We know that either a vocal sector of the fans will lash out if he isn’t white (and say unnecessary ugly things), and the media will whine and say it’s a missed opportunity if he is white. Damned if you do damned if you don’t. Gender is a far bigger leap and one I would not happily accept.

    I had a long discussion once in this thread about this topic, and it sort of boiled down to a distinction between the following:

    A characteristic of the character (negotiables, let's say), and
    A characteristic of the character that is inextricably linked to that character (non-negotiables) because of the stories told through that character.

    There are some characteristics of the character, such as eye and hair colour, height, etc. which have varied throughout the films from actor to actor, but they're not integral to the stories being told, and so are not inextricably linked to that character.

    Bond being British, however, is inextricably linked to the character because it's an important part of the stories being told.

    Race, IMO, fits somewhere in the middle here, and thus, is controversial. Bond's race is integral in some of the stories (LALD, for example), and is clearly laid out in the source material that created the character (but so is hair and eye colour, etc., which is why I think race is a grey area).

    And to contrast with a comparison people love to use, Blade's race *is* inextricably linked to that character (in a way unique from Bond), because his stories are inextricably linked to black culture.

    And as you say, I think Bond's gender *is* inextricably linked to the character, again, because of the stories that are being told.

    Just my NickTwentyTwo cents, of course. All opinion.

    While I nod along in agreement - and I think the idea that race is somewhere in between unimportant traits and integral ones is fundamentally sound - I do wonder how much sense it makes to cast a non-white actor and then not make that a literal part of the character.
    What I mean by that is that I would expect a story about a man with f.e. Indian heritage being the top assassin of Her Majesty's Secret Service to at some point have something to say about the history of state violence the British Empire inflicted upon Indian people in the past. To me that just is something someone who kills people for Queen and Country would have to reckon with. Especially in a time of Black Lives Matter and so on. But that isn't James Bond's story. At all. That would add something to the inner live of him that really wasn't ever there.
    So could they just never adress the fact that he isn't white and have it not be strange or could there be a way to adress it without breaking with the original character?
    Or am I just being racist by imposing what I think a non-white character would and wouldn't have to care about on them?

    I think that's an excellent and very interesting point. In truth, even in the more dramatic Craig films, it's never really been touched upon why Bond does what he does. So you could continue with that with a man of different race, or maybe have people hint that it is a bit of a dichotomy that Bond would do that job. So, as with Craig's run, there's perhaps an opportunity to make Bond's character a little bit more interesting, if anything.
    Of course it's not as if plenty of non-white people don't work for the British Government in various roles including SIS, so it's probably not an issue anyway.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575
    I just hope whoever it is it is done on merit alone rather than a tick box exercise. If it is someone of colour then people will choose to view it that way because of the current climate and right now given some of the choices made I couldn't blame them for saying this is the case.

    Hollywood as a whole just needs to write good strong original parts for people of colour and for women instead of giving hand me downs so that they can look good and get praise for it in the process. Personally in most cases I find that it's bordering on insulting and a cheap way of keeping people quiet about the issue... It feels incredibly short sighted and the only winner is Hollywood in the end. They are pleasing you by what you see on the surface but they're not actually making any significant changes or strides for inclusion.

    For the record, I don't personally have any issue with Bond being a POC as I do believe for EON it will be best man for the job. I can just see why people would think it's pandering because of what would be perceived as the current trend.
  • 00Heaven00Heaven Home
    Posts: 575

    While I nod along in agreement - and I think the idea that race is somewhere in between unimportant traits and integral ones is fundamentally sound - I do wonder how much sense it makes to cast a non-white actor and then not make that a literal part of the character.
    What I mean by that is that I would expect a story about a man with f.e. Indian heritage being the top assassin of Her Majesty's Secret Service to at some point have something to say about the history of state violence the British Empire inflicted upon Indian people in the past. To me that just is something someone who kills people for Queen and Country would have to reckon with. Especially in a time of Black Lives Matter and so on. But that isn't James Bond's story. At all. That would add something to the inner live of him that really wasn't ever there.
    So could they just never adress the fact that he isn't white and have it not be strange or could there be a way to adress it without breaking with the original character?
    Or am I just being racist by imposing what I think a non-white character would and wouldn't have to care about on them?

    I just want to note that Bond is technically half Scottish and half Swiss and depending on the lay of the land, Scots have a fractured relationship with Britain as a whole (because of history). You could maybe point that out as an argument for Bond himself but it's either a) a non-issue or b) he just gets on with it anyway. It's a Bond movie so I don't see a POC Bond as bringing up any of those current issues and hanging on to them. Indian and black people were born here so I would fathom most would identify as British while celebrating their heritage and roots.

    Britain is a huge melting pot of multiple races because of the amount of times we were invaded, etc etc. I have French roots yet I was born and raised here.. I identify as British and I certainly don't hold past wars between France and Britain against Britain regardless of my roots (though I'm very aware of them).

    In the end I just don't think there is a race out there that doesn't have those kinds of concerns.
  • Isn't James predominantly a white male name?! I would mind a rock/rap track for the next song, though.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited December 2021 Posts: 16,366
    00Heaven wrote: »
    I just hope whoever it is it is done on merit alone rather than a tick box exercise.

    As you say though, some folk will be determined to see it that way no matter how the choice is made. That's kind of the issue in the world today. And it's impossible to determine that anyway.

    And as I keep saying, merit isn't the only consideration- it's down to whether they fit the film too. If Pierce Brosnan had never been Bond and was up for Casino Royale then he might not have got it. Doesn't mean he wasn't right for Bond on merit, just that he wasn't the type of guy they wanted for that film (and, y'know: that is exactly what actually happened!)
    Isn't James predominantly a white male name?! I would mind a rock/rap track for the next song, though.

    Yeah we were saying in another thread recently that a rap or hip hop tune could be a possibility in future: it's not like some of them can't be very grand. A few even sample old Bond themes! :)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Benny wrote: »
    In my mind Lewis Collins could've been a great Bond. Although if he did succeed Roger Moore, then we wouldn't have got Timothy Dalton.
    Collins did exude all the right Bondian requirements. It just wasn't to be. Who Dares Wins did seem like the film to showcase his talents as a potential Bond.

    And there is the only problem I have if Collins had been cast.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    You people are paranoid. The next Bond actor will be a white man.

    Michael Jai White, perhaps?

    At 57, not going to happen. I will say this though, with his looks, athleticism, thundering voice and presence, MJW SHOULD have been a bigger name.
  • talos7 wrote: »
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    Barbara's being diplomatic when she's saying Bond will be a British man of any ethnicity. Bond being a man goes without saying. Anyone who believed Bond would ever be a woman was kidding themselves. The comment about any ethnicity is reasonable lip service just to shut people up. Barbara's made some questionable decisions but she's not crazy. When she inevitably does cast a white actor, a small handful of people will complain for all of 5 minutes and move on. Bond is white and he'll remain so.

    I agree.

    On the one hand, we’ve got Barbara Broccoli, the woman who produces the films, a progressive type who’s big advocate of greater diversity in the industry, who already broke the mould looks wise with the last time she cast the role, telling us this long running, flexible character who’s already changed height/hair colour/eye colour/personality can also change ethnicity. On the other hand, we’ve got some fans on the internet, who reckon she’s just being diplomatic, apparently based on nothing other than “I don’t like it”.

    Seriously, I think projecting your mindset onto her like this is just setting yourselves up for disappointment. Your perspective isn’t the only one, and implying anyone who disagrees with you is crazy is laughable. I’m not saying it’ll definitely happen, but it’s possible. So, I’d try your best to get used to the idea, instead of living in denial about the possibility. She’s given you fair warning.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Agreed @thelivingroyale ... Barbara Broccoli has repeated this statement frequently as of late... At the very least, every major and minor agency representing handsome, charismatic men of varying race and ethnicity will be flooding EoN with film reels, and; at the very least, the creative powers at EoN and MGM/Amazon will be paying very close attention to these actors....

    I think it's clear by now that Barbara Broccoli doesn't want to repeat herself. She will be looking to shake this series up to keep it relevant.

    James Bond is a man of today... And when we look at major cosmopolitans today, we see a vast array of backgrounds and mixed backgrounds. James Bond will represent the ever changing landscape sooner or later.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Projection of mindsets , is a part of speculation and expression; and makes up a part of the post seen here.

    I do think that she’s being diplomatic. Do I state that as a fact? No, but I do think it very likely.
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