No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    royale65 wrote: »
    On this forum dear @Murdock, it seems that one belongs in two camps - "Campy Comdey" or "Gloomy Melodrama". No in-between. Which is typical for the internet. Personally I just want a great Bond for Craig's swansong.
    How about a tense, dead serious thriller? 0% melodrama, 0% jokes, 100% suspense.

    @CASINOROYALE Skyfall may not have felt like a classic Bond films, that's part of the reason it's so great. And the reason people like Skyfall so much is that it's one of the very few Bond films that wasn't made for kids.

    No it was very bland. I’m not even joking when I say a majority of the people in my town saw it only because of Adele...

  • Posts: 4,619
    royale65 wrote: »
    On this forum dear @Murdock, it seems that one belongs in two camps - "Campy Comdey" or "Gloomy Melodrama". No in-between. Which is typical for the internet. Personally I just want a great Bond for Craig's swansong.
    How about a tense, dead serious thriller? 0% melodrama, 0% jokes, 100% suspense.

    @CASINOROYALE Skyfall may not have felt like a classic Bond films, that's part of the reason it's so great. And the reason people like Skyfall so much is that it's one of the very few Bond films that wasn't made for kids.

    No it was very bland. I’m not even joking when I say a majority of the people in my town saw it only because of Adele...

    And I'm not even joking that those people didn't watch CR, didn't watch QOS and didn't watch Spectre. Skyfall was a cultural phenomenon unlike any Bond film in a very very long time.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,361
    Can you fellas stop quoting messages I'm tagged in please. I keep getting notifications.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,058
    bondjames wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm sorry to say old friend that the one thing we are very unlikely to see for Craig's finale is another CR. They've moved quite far from that film in the last 10 years, and if we're all being honest with ourselves, we'll realize that.

    They've moved away, but not that far, I think. If they toned down the drama a bit and added a tad more grit, they could go back to CR territory. In fact, just by removing Mendes and the family drama from the equation they'd be taking a step in the direction of CR, because hopefully, any "emotional journey" undertaken by Bond would be related more to the mission than his own being (more TWINE than Spectre, whatever one may think about either film).
    It's not so much the emotional aspect which is the departure from the first film of the reboot journey for me. Rather, it is the prevalence of 'themes' and the focus on 'art'. CR was a straight Bond thriller. No pretensions. The only drama was the Vesper death, which came right at the end. From QoS onwards (yes, that film suffered from it too, so this is not just the fault of the much maligned Mendes) I have detected a need (obsession?) with trying to make these Bond films more than perhaps they should be at the expense of what they in fact are. To make them appeal to those who like to analyze films at a deeper level. To ostensibly 'elevate' them beyond mere spy fare with hidden meaning and context. This has come, at least in my estimation, at the expense of a focus on the basics. I don't expect anything different for B25, and that was my point.

    Can't argue with that; they have indeed taken that approach post CR. Whereas CR just tells its story, and anything the viewer might take away from it is mostly up to the viewer himself, the other three films are constructed around "messages" they seek to convey, through a number of motifs --visual or otherwise-- and lines uttered by the characters. They're Bond films that come across as designed for artistic rather than entertainment purposes, and they're not the only recent commercial films made in that style. The problem in the case of Bond is that they've stuck to that style for too long, and it's grown stale. The way of keeping Bond fresh is by switching things up regularly. Unfortunately, as you say, the situation is not going to change at this stage of the Craig era.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 10,592
    Murdock wrote: »
    Can you fellas stop quoting messages I'm tagged in please. I keep getting notifications.

    Try getting one every time someone comments on this thread :). I have over 7000 notifications at the moment.
  • Posts: 11,119
    royale65 wrote: »
    On this forum dear @Murdock, it seems that one belongs in two camps - "Campy Comdey" or "Gloomy Melodrama". No in-between. Which is typical for the internet. Personally I just want a great Bond for Craig's swansong.

    Read my story treatment and you know very well that there's an 'in between' as well ;-).
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody is asking them the most important question: Namely, where are MGM with the distribution deal. These clowns are all following the bait and asking about the director.

    This.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody is asking them the most important question: Namely, where are MGM with the distribution deal. These clowns are all following the bait and asking about the director.

    This.

    I don't understand what you're both on about. How much do you really think the distributor has to say? They're all vying for the deal and will do whatever EON wants. They won't pick the director. They won't pick the second draft writers. They won't direct the film. They'll distribute it and pick up costs.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    If only it were that simple!
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Well explain how much creative input you think the distributor is going to have over the next movie and how it trumps the director? That's all I'm asking
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Well explain how much creative input you think the distributor is going to have over the next movie and how it trumps the director? That's all I'm asking
    The unfortunate reality is that many studios will want a certain amount of creative control, much of which for the sole point of making sure the film is as bankable as possible.

    Which is why I think, out of all the major distributors in the running for that one picture deal, Warner Bros. is our best bet. Why? Because, using Blade Runner 2049 as an example, it doesn't seem like they did any intervening with creative decisions (at least not for the worse). The film retained its R rating (something particularly unimaginable for a sci-fi film), not to mention its near-3 hour runtime. Did it make as much money as they expected? No. However, what we got as a result of Warner giving everybody involved creative freedom was an almost unanimously praised feat of filmmaking (and for good reason, having witnessed it first hand).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    In a smaller production, the distributor has a lot of say re: cast, director, and so on... (I've been involved on this lower budget filmmaking); the distributor is King on an indie film... I imagine the roles get mightily reversed when you deal with a studio pic, or with EoN... If EoN wants DC today, EoN will get DC. If they want Villeneuve, and Villeneuve agrees, the distributor will nod and do what they have to do outside of the bigger players making the shots happen to start the marketing...
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Actually they can film the movie with no distributor... It’s James Bond they can release it wherever they want and make money. The producers have 100% control.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Of course EoN has enough line of credit capital to shoot and finance and produce a Bond film... They need a distributor to market, P&A, and get the films in cinemas--

    --what a distributor does, not the producing company.
  • DoctorNo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody is asking them the most important question: Namely, where are MGM with the distribution deal. These clowns are all following the bait and asking about the director.

    This.

    I don't understand what you're both on about. How much do you really think the distributor has to say? They're all vying for the deal and will do whatever EON wants. They won't pick the director. They won't pick the second draft writers. They won't direct the film. They'll distribute it and pick up costs.

    The last two movies the distributor kicked in *half* the production budget. Without a distributor, the movie doesn't go into theaters.

    Now, if Eon self-financed its movies and paid the distributor a fee, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

    But that doesn't happen. Eon spends *other people's money*. And the Bond 25 distributor likely will be kicking in a substantial amount of the budget.
  • Actually they can film the movie with no distributor... It’s James Bond they can release it wherever they want and make money. The producers have 100% control.

    Eon doesn't have a distribution operation. Eon *has never* released a James Bond movie.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    Well explain how much creative input you think the distributor is going to have over the next movie and how it trumps the director? That's all I'm asking
    The unfortunate reality is that many studios will want a certain amount of creative control, much of which for the sole point of making sure the film is as bankable as possible.

    Which is why I think, out of all the major distributors in the running for that one picture deal, Warner Bros. is our best bet. Why? Because, using Blade Runner 2049 as an example, it doesn't seem like they did any intervening with creative decisions (at least not for the worse). The film retained its R rating (something particularly unimaginable for a sci-fi film), not to mention its near-3 hour runtime. Did it make as much money as they expected? No. However, what we got as a result of Warner giving everybody involved creative freedom was an almost unanimously praised feat of filmmaking (and for good reason, having witnessed it first hand).

    With Blade Runner 2049, Warner Bros. got a distribution fee for distributing the movie in North America.

    The movie was financed by Sony (which is distributing it in international markets) and a company called Alcon Entertainment.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Exactly @AlexanderWaverly — they could finance and shoot a film, they just couldn’t release it...
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 2,115
    //Well explain how much creative input you think the distributor is going to have over the next movie and how it trumps the director? That's all I'm asking.//

    Extreme example: In 1971, Eon was ready to go with John Gavin as James Bond.

    United Artists, the distributor that was actually financing the movie, said no. That's why Sean Connery came back. That wasn't the decision of Broccoli and Saltzman. That was the decision of UA.

    Another example: 1990s. Eon wanted to continue with Timothy Dalton. MGM, which was paying the bills, did not. Dalton bowed out.
  • peter wrote: »
    Exactly @AlexanderWaverly — they could finance and shoot a film, they just couldn’t release it...

    Albert R. Broccoli (with Irving Allen) financed and distributed The Trials of Oscar Wilde. He never did that again.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody is asking them the most important question: Namely, where are MGM with the distribution deal. These clowns are all following the bait and asking about the director.

    This.

    I don't understand what you're both on about. How much do you really think the distributor has to say? They're all vying for the deal and will do whatever EON wants. They won't pick the director. They won't pick the second draft writers. They won't direct the film. They'll distribute it and pick up costs.

    The last two movies the distributor kicked in *half* the production budget. Without a distributor, the movie doesn't go into theaters.

    Now, if Eon self-financed its movies and paid the distributor a fee, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

    But that doesn't happen. Eon spends *other people's money*. And the Bond 25 distributor likely will be kicking in a substantial amount of the budget.
    Also, isn't it the case that even though they kick in a large portion of the budget, they don't receive that same proportion of the profits. I.e. MGM and EON keep the lion's share, with the distributor basically getting short changed on the profit front?

    Furthermore, I'm not sure if this is a big deal, but I would think the distributor would want certain commitments from the actors with respect to publicity/marketing and so on, given they are on the hook for that. As an example, didn't Mendes and Craig not want Bond to use a Sony phone or something along those lines for SP? I can't imagine that went down well, because it allows the distributor to benefit in indirect ways from a production where they are not getting as much benefit directly.

    Finally, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a collaborative process. EON may have the final say, but they don't impose it on the distributor. They work with them to ensure that everyone is on the same page with respect to the major elements. Wilson pretty much confirmed that a few years back and Sony had quite a bit of involvement in Craig's original hiring as I recall.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 10,592
    bondjames wrote: »
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Nobody is asking them the most important question: Namely, where are MGM with the distribution deal. These clowns are all following the bait and asking about the director.

    This.

    I don't understand what you're both on about. How much do you really think the distributor has to say? They're all vying for the deal and will do whatever EON wants. They won't pick the director. They won't pick the second draft writers. They won't direct the film. They'll distribute it and pick up costs.

    The last two movies the distributor kicked in *half* the production budget. Without a distributor, the movie doesn't go into theaters.

    Now, if Eon self-financed its movies and paid the distributor a fee, then it wouldn't be a big deal.

    But that doesn't happen. Eon spends *other people's money*. And the Bond 25 distributor likely will be kicking in a substantial amount of the budget.
    Also, isn't it the case that even though they kick in a large portion of the budget, they don't receive that same proportion of the profits. I.e. MGM and EON keep the lion's share, with the distributor basically getting short changed on the profit front?

    Furthermore, I'm not sure if this is a big deal, but I would think the distributor would want certain commitments from the actors with respect to publicity/marketing and so on, given they are on the hook for that. As an example, didn't Mendes and Craig not want Bond to use a Sony phone or something along those lines for SP? I can't imagine that went down well, because it allows the distributor to benefit in indirect ways from a production where they are not getting as much benefit directly.

    Finally, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a collaborative process. EON may have the final say, but they don't impose it on the distributor. They work with them to ensure that everyone is on the same page with respect to the major elements. Wilson pretty much confirmed that a few years back and Sony had quite a bit of involvement in Craig's original hiring as I recall.
    All this is true. It should always be a collaborative process. It only gets problematic if the studio begins altering story elements for the sake of bankability (which is the unfortunate reality creative talents have to face, as this kind of issue is almost always prevalent in that industry).
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    @CASINOROYALE, you sir deserve a medal! I share exactly the same views on the last four films! Well said, sir!

    Thank you! ;) Glad someone agrees.
    Although sadly it seems like many people hate Quantum and Spectre.

    @CASINOROYALE @ClarkDevlin make that three
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    if she is not there yet does that mean a draft still isn't done? how far are they along on the script I wonder?
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Actually they can film the movie with no distributor... It’s James Bond they can release it wherever they want and make money. The producers have 100% control.

    Eon doesn't have a distribution operation. Eon *has never* released a James Bond movie.

    I know.. I am saying they can film the movie easily without a distributor. They could probably get any company they wanted to release the film. I’d imagine they are just undecided on who to go with.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    how far they on script?

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Actually they can film the movie with no distributor... It’s James Bond they can release it wherever they want and make money. The producers have 100% control.

    Eon doesn't have a distribution operation. Eon *has never* released a James Bond movie.

    I know.. I am saying they can film the movie easily without a distributor. They could probably get any company they wanted to release the film. I’d imagine they are just undecided on who to go with.
    This is primarily MGM's decision as far as I'm aware, and I believe that the deal will impact more than just B25. I think a one off deal for B25 only (as opposed to a wider ranging deal for other MGM products) is one of a series of options being looked at.
  • Posts: 1,991
    Maybe it’s nothing but I visited the main cast’s IMDb...

    Schedules

    1. Daniel Craig -2018 clear-

    2. Ben Whishaw -2018 clear-

    3. Naomie Harris -2018 clear-

    4. Lea Seydoux -2018 clear-

    5. Christoph Waltz -Currently filming a movie but no other films scheduled for 2018-

    6. Dave Bautista - Currently filming a movie but no other films scheduled for 2018-

    7. Ralph Fiennes -2018 clear-

    Maybe I am crazy but at least this is a good sign? They have the film coming out November 2019 so unfortunately that means they wouldn’t start filming until what, November-December 2018?
    It is Craig’s last film though. Hopefully they film early and then have a long period of time to edit. I doubt we will get a title and cast announcement until next fall...

    Its a good sign if you want a sequel to Spectre like myself. Its a bad sign if you were looking to have a stand alone story send off for Craig,
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Another example: 1990s. Eon wanted to continue with Timothy Dalton. MGM, which was paying the bills, did not. Dalton bowed out.

    Actually, I believe that’s a bit of internet misinformation. Tim’s side of the story is that he was asked back by Cubby for Goldeneye, but turned it down because he didn’t want to sign up for multiple films.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Minion wrote: »
    Another example: 1990s. Eon wanted to continue with Timothy Dalton. MGM, which was paying the bills, did not. Dalton bowed out.

    Actually, I believe that’s a bit of internet misinformation. Tim’s side of the story is that he was asked back by Cubby for Goldeneye, but turned it down because he didn’t want to sign up for multiple films.
    I have read that, but have also read that John Calley at MGM wanted a new face in the role after the long break and wasn't all that keen on Dalton. They all gave him a face saving way out by letting him announce it. Coincidentally, here is the announcement of his departure from 1994. It makes for surreal reading.

    http://variety.com/1994/film/news/dalton-bails-out-as-bond-120067/

    Here is another article from 2010 which talks about the delay they had then (post-QoS). Note Babs comment on Calley. Interesting, and potentially on account of the Dalton scenario.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fate-james-bond-hangs-balance-25939
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