No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • Posts: 1,162
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I wouldn’t agree @noSolaceleft ; Cubby had plenty of talent as a producer. He and Harry kept the machine going, finding and hiring the talent to see their vision through, altering with the times (for better or worse, but being stagnant and stubborn, with no change, would have killed Bond decades ago); but after twenty plus years essentially running only one business (the James Bond business), Cubby was bound to come up with some terrible ideas.

    It’s the nature of the business, it’s the nature of being human and fallible (we can’t come up with great ideas and solutions 100% of the time).

    As for Babs, until you’ve run a successful film franchise for twenty plus years, with there no sign of it not continuing its successes, I think we can assume she’s a savvy film producer and businesswoman. You may not personally like the direction she’s taken, which is your right, but more people in this world flood to her product time and again (and she is just as guilty of poor choices as anyone else; trick is, like her Dad, she gets her product more right than wrong. SP was a misstep. Lets see how she responds— not having Waltz back is a strong indicator that she’s taking steps in improving on her last outing)

    100% agree with you. Having worked with both Cubby and Barbara way back on LTK, I can tell you everyone hugely respected them. To keep a franchise going for 55 years is simply astonishing and I think some fans on this forum underestimate what an achievement that is and what talent and, as you say, savvy it takes. I also agree that this news about Waltz indicates they are determined to improve on SP - although I must say I find a lot to enjoy and admire in that film - for me, they failed to give Blofeld a strong and dramatically exciting master-plan and as a result the last third (last act if u like) doesn't really have anywhere to go.

    I am not doubting in the slightest their technical abilities as producers in getting the money together or know whom to call or to hire for what project.
    What I'm doubting are their creative abilities. From the beginning the forte of Broccoli was the money part. After all it was Salzman who had secured the rights on the Bond franchise for himself, but didn't have the money to do it alone. Cubby was kind of a stranger to the movie business and only brought by Salzman to it. He also had to be convinced heavily by Young and HS to invest in those saville row suits we today so much take for granted for the 60ies.
    It is not pure coincidence that he never produced something else then bond movies. He wasn't even interested in it. All he wanted was a profit for granted and no experiments. Just look at the unevenness of so many Bond movies just because they weren't brave enough to go to whole 9 yards (LTK comes to mind, for example). Be it father or daughter.
    HS On the other hand produced other movies (Call me Bawana of FRWL fame,for instance.)which by the way was the reason he had to sell his part of EON, since he had tanked big time with one of his projects.

    Although some of your facts are questionable ...
    .

    My only excuse is that it's been decades since I've read all those books about the Bond movies from which I have most of my knowledge of the franchise. I especially referred to "call me bawana " since it was also quite a flop just like the movie that forced HS to sell his parts of the franchise.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    I wouldn't be surprised if Mendes returned to direct Bond 25.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I did a bit of quick research on Mr. Mendes.

    Apparently he will open a London theatre production mid next year focused on Lehman Brothers starring Simon Russell Beale. He will also take a play called The Ferryman (written by none other than Jez Butterworth) to Broadway next October.

    So rest easy folks, Mendes seems to be out of contention.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I wouldn't be surprised if Mendes returned to direct Bond 25.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Radiohead wrote and performed the title song of Bond 25.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    I wouldn't be surprised if Mendes returned to direct Bond 25.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Radiohead wrote and performed the title song of Bond 25.

    I'm still awaiting that official SP track you promised would be attached to the film, though...
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    Skyfall was one of the worst bond movies ever. Only popular because of Adele. So no please do not bring back Mendes. Spectre wasn’t bad but I am tired of them bringing things up that make zero sense. Mendes always forgets this little thing called plot holes... Oh Spectre agents all have rings and their dna is found on them but we never saw any of the previous villains with rings... We need a new director and different take. But do we really want another lackluster ending?

    Skyfall playing home alone in the middle of no where on a farm?

    Spectre shooting Blofelds helicopter down?

    Look at the ending of previous Bond films. Were any of them that bad?
    Hell QOS had a better ending then Skyfall and Spectre!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.

    While that could make logical sense, there's the risk it could undermine Spectre (the film). Knowing Oberhauser, the big bad of the movie, is just a decoy, could retroactively make the scenes with him feel less consequential, even pointless. It's the same as with the often-touted idea (in certain circles) of retroactively turning the events of the film Alien 3 into a dream. It could be done but it could negatively affect (even destroy) the experience of watching the movie.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    bondjames wrote: »
    I did a bit of quick research on Mr. Mendes.

    Apparently he will open a London theatre production mid next year focused on Lehman Brothers starring Simon Russell Beale. He will also take a play called The Ferryman (written by none other than Jez Butterworth) to Broadway next October.

    So rest easy folks, Mendes seems to be out of contention.

    Remember when Simon Russell Beale was rumored to be a villain in Skyfall? Ah, those were the days... (not really, they weren't any different)
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 4,619
    Skyfall was one of the worst bond movies ever. Only popular because of Adele.
    In other words: Hundreds of critics all arround the world + tens of millions of moviegoers are all WRONG!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    You do understand @noSolaceleft, Cubby was producing films starting in 1953 in THE RED BERET. Terence Young was his director.
  • peter wrote: »
    You do understand @noSolaceleft, Cubby was producing films starting in 1953 in THE RED BERET. Terence Young was his director.

    It was also Broccoli who arranged the 1957 lunch with his then-partner Irving Allen and Ian Fleming. Broccoli was keen on the novels but Allen insulted Fleming.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    Skyfall was one of the worst bond movies ever. Only popular because of Adele.
    In other words: Hundreds of critics all arround the world + tens of millions of moviegoers are all WRONG!

    SKYFALL was so terrible that audiences stayed away in DROVES when Spectre released, making it the lowest grossing Bond film of ALL TIME (including '67 Casino Royale). People have since been re-evaluating the works of Ed Wood as "actually not that bad, if compared to SKYFALL"
  • Posts: 1,162
    peter wrote: »
    You do understand @noSolaceleft, Cubby was producing films starting in 1953 in THE RED BERET. Terence Young was his director.

    I already admitted my mistake one or two pages ago.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.

    While that could make logical sense, there's the risk it could undermine Spectre (the film). Knowing Oberhauser, the big bad of the movie, is just a decoy, could retroactively make the scenes with him feel less consequential, even pointless. It's the same as with the often-touted idea (in certain circles) of retroactively turning the events of the film Alien 3 into a dream. It could be done but it could negatively affect (even destroy) the experience of watching the movie.

    I agree.

    Plus they gave him the cat and the scar. For them to turn round now and say no folks we were just messing with your heads and here's the real Blofeld risks verging into Kingsman 2 territory where being shot in the head at point blank range no longer carries any heft.

    The hamfisted retcon itself was bad enough. For them to then retcon the retcon would be David-Brent-begging-for-his-job-back levels of cringeworthiness.

    There comes a time to stop digging.

    At this point I think I'd rather they just issued the following statement:

    'EON productions wishes to apologise profusely for our mishandling of the Blofeld and SPECTRE properties in the 2015 motion picture SPECTRE. We realise that we monumentally cocked things up and for that we are very sorry.
    It's clear to us that SP has left the Craig era stuck at the bottom of a narrative cul de sac and none of the options to reverse it out again are at all desirable.

    Thus we have decided to abandon entirely any semblance of continuing the story arc we hamfistedly forced on everyone in SP and are just going to give Craig a balls to the wall epic send off along the lines of TB or MR.

    We stand chastened in the shadow of our (well Mendes') hubris and promise to get things back on track with a storming entry and a new actor for the 60th in 2022.

    Kind regards from all at EON productions'

    Just admit you dropped the ball and are sorry and then we can all just move on.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Skyfall was one of the worst bond movies ever. Only popular because of Adele. So no please do not bring back Mendes. Spectre wasn’t bad but I am tired of them bringing things up that make zero sense. Mendes always forgets this little thing called plot holes... Oh Spectre agents all have rings and their dna is found on them but we never saw any of the previous villains with rings... We need a new director and different take. But do we really want another lackluster ending?

    Skyfall playing home alone in the middle of no where on a farm?

    Spectre shooting Blofelds helicopter down?

    Look at the ending of previous Bond films. Were any of them that bad?
    Hell QOS had a better ending then Skyfall and Spectre!

    I like what you have to say
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Oh Spectre agents all have rings and their dna is found on them but we never saw any of the previous villains with rings..

    Mendes' words in a podcast on this particular plot point never made sense to me either, with him cutting most of the still unlikely explanation of the traces of metal because at that point, either the audience accepts the villains are connected or it doesn't, and the explanation makes little difference. I don't know... such blatant disregard for plot coherence.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    It's like they didn't think of any of this when pondering whether or not trying to connect all four films via SP made remotely any sense.
  • mattjoes wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    Admittedly its a little trite, but there could be an easy explanation for a new actor as Blofeld, whilst writing out the 'foster brother' nonsense.

    Putting it simply, Waltz could have not been the real Blofeld from the start.

    Once Denbigh informed the rest of Spectre that Bond was on the case, the real Blofeld decided to use Oberhauser as a decoy, to mess with Bond's head and also to shield himself.

    Im not saying its a great idea, but it would probably work in the convoluted logic the Craig films seem to exist in.

    While that could make logical sense, there's the risk it could undermine Spectre (the film). Knowing Oberhauser, the big bad of the movie, is just a decoy, could retroactively make the scenes with him feel less consequential, even pointless. It's the same as with the often-touted idea (in certain circles) of retroactively turning the events of the film Alien 3 into a dream. It could be done but it could negatively affect (even destroy) the experience of watching the movie.

    I agree.

    Plus they gave him the cat and the scar. For them to turn round now and say no folks we were just messing with your heads and here's the real Blofeld risks verging into Kingsman 2 territory where being shot in the head at point blank range no longer carries any heft.

    The hamfisted retcon itself was bad enough. For them to then retcon the retcon would be David-Brent-begging-for-his-job-back levels of cringeworthiness.

    There comes a time to stop digging.

    At this point I think I'd rather they just issued the following statement:

    'EON productions wishes to apologise profusely for our mishandling of the Blofeld and SPECTRE properties in the 2015 motion picture SPECTRE. We realise that we monumentally cocked things up and for that we are very sorry.
    It's clear to us that SP has left the Craig era stuck at the bottom of a narrative cul de sac and none of the options to reverse it out again are at all desirable.

    Thus we have decided to abandon entirely any semblance of continuing the story arc we hamfistedly forced on everyone in SP and are just going to give Craig a balls to the wall epic send off along the lines of TB or MR.

    We stand chastened in the shadow of our (well Mendes') hubris and promise to get things back on track with a storming entry and a new actor for the 60th in 2022.

    Kind regards from all at EON productions'

    Just admit you dropped the ball and are sorry and then we can all just move on.

    Or Bond wakes up from a nap and shudders. "That was a terrible dream."
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's like they didn't think of any of this when pondering whether or not trying to connect all four films via SP made remotely any sense.

    It's like they were making this up as they went along.



    Wait a minute...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's like they didn't think of any of this when pondering whether or not trying to connect all four films via SP made remotely any sense.

    It's like they were making this up as they went along.



    Wait a minute...

    You might be on to something here...

    It's why I'd love for Craig's exit to be something much more standalone.
  • edited October 2017 Posts: 12,837
    The more I think about it the more I wish they'd just bit the bullet, recast and gone for a proper fresh start.

    It's seeming like they have no intention of following on from SP, and I just can't get on board with a stand alone movie with Craig right after they tried to make out that his movies were one big connected story. Plus SP worked as an ending. He got the evil mastermind behind all he'd been through in the other films and finally decided to walk away from killing, driving off into the sunset, something he never thought he'd be able to do after Vesper died. The end.

    I really like Craig don't get me wrong. He's a brilliant James Bond. But the story of that James Bond, the Bond Begins continuity heavy one that actually aged and developed, felt done at the end of the last movie. And they're just going to have to recast after Bond 25 anyway so why put it off for another few years, why not just get it out the way with now. A fresh start would be an exciting change imo. It has been over 10 years after all.

    The obvious answer is that they're making it up as they go along and getting the proven draw back instead of a new face is the safer option. But I think his films are going to suffer on rewatch because of their flip flopping. It's going to feel really messy watching the Craig movies in the future imo because unlike the others, there's sort of an attempt at an over arcing story, but they keep getting cold feet and not committing to it.

    CR-QoS: Directly tied together
    SF: Stand alone kind of
    SP: Okay so SF isn't a stand alone and also relates to CR/QoS as well as this movie?
    Bond 25: Sorry about that guys have a stand alone film instead

    I think it was @Gustav who started a thread comparing the Craig era to the Dark Knight trilogy but that's an actual trilogy. The Craig era is just a messy inconsistent set of films and if after all that he's back and they're not going to properly follow on from SP at all, I can't wait for it to be over so they can clean the slate and do better with the next actor.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    'Creative' doesn't appear to be in charge right now. 'Business' is.

    MGM has to nail down a one picture distribution deal. They probably need the revenue from a successful Bond film release to ramp up for an IPO or sale. Once that's out of the way and they either have a new distribution arm post-IPO or a solid partnership with someone (including Chinese investors) then they can think about a new fresh start for B26. It doesn't make sense to recast now while they don't know what the future after B25 will hold.

    So messy as it is, they appear to be going down the standalone one film route with Craig in tow just to get something out there.

    There are two other possibilities however.

    1. B25 will be a continuation of sorts, but just not with Blofeld. I can live with that.
    2. Something else happens along the way. Something big and transformative. This, however unlikely as it may be this time around, is my preference.
  • Posts: 12,526
    Feel a little robbed should this be the case that Waltz will not feature? He could have been so much better as Blofeld give the material!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    I wonder if this is a red herring. Considering months back he said he'd come back if Craig did so here we are. It's like the boy who cried wolf. It's hard to distinguish fact from fiction at this point.
  • Posts: 4,619
    And they're just going to have to recast after Bond 25 anyway so why put it off for another few years, why not just get it out the way with now.
    Maybe because BB & MGW really are selling the franchise, but wanted to make one more movie with Craig before hanging up the hat.
    . But I think his films are going to suffer on rewatch because of their flip flopping. It's going to feel really messy watching the Craig movies in the future imo because unlike the others, there's sort of an attempt at an over arcing story, but they keep getting cold feet and not committing to it.
    Hopefully CR, SF and Bond 25 will form a perfect trilogy.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited October 2017 Posts: 10,592
    Murdock wrote: »
    I wonder if this is a red herring. Considering months back he said he'd come back if Craig did so here we are. It's like the boy who cried wolf. It's hard to distinguish fact from fiction at this point.
    It's worth noting that Waltz never made any such remarks. The story was reported over a year back by one of many unreliable tabloids (and was adamantly denied by the man himself). Not sure why it received so much traction nor why many took it as concrete fact.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    I stand corrected.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I have to admit, despite my distaste for Waltz as Blofeld, it would have been neat to see Bond finally get his revenge on the author of his pain. It's possible that they didn't want to go down the revenge path again given it was already partially addressed in QoS.

    Or more likely a new director just doesn't want to take on any of Mendes's baggage, which is what I assumed some time ago. Where I got it wrong was whether a new director would want Craig along either (given the baggage is all his).
  • Posts: 5,767
    Skyfall was one of the worst bond movies ever. Only popular because of Adele.
    In other words: Hundreds of critics all arround the world + tens of millions of moviegoers are all WRONG!
    Well, it IS truly baffling that SF got such good reviews all around.

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