No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • edited November 2017 Posts: 832
    Sf is a top tier bond film, the plotholes are overplayed by critics. Sp is absolute, irredeemable garbage. I had given eon/ mendes the benefit of the doubt after readingbthe leaked script. Some elements i very much liked, in fact I though it had potential to be a great bond film, and I believed the personal aspects would be downplayed as in sf. The final product eliminated some of my favorite moments from the script and there was more focus on the scooby squad/ personal matters than I had anticipated. Basically my biggest concerns about the script were surpassed, and some of the better aspects were downplayed/ eliminated altogether (dinner/ cards with blofeld, the script version of the spectre meeting, gunbarrel opening on the skull socket, more development for madaline, "we have all of the time in the world ending", etc) Mendes must not return, I am more than exhausted of melodrama in bond. Also we should hope for but not expect a cr tier film, afterall there hasn't been one since on her majestys.
  • Posts: 12,475
    At least you like SF haha. I agree it is still far superior.
  • Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    Sf is a top tier bond film, the plotholes are overplayed by critics.

    I've come around greatly on appreciating and enjoying Skyfall, but the plotholes are in no way, shape or form overplayed, whatever exactly that means. I don't know how they could be. The plotholes are perhaps the singular most glaring problem with the film and far more in-your-face than just about any other Bond. Still, the film has phenomenal cinematography, a unique style and vibe, and standout scenes and sequences that all help to elevate it.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I think Spectre is a better Bond film than Skyfall simply because it adjusts better to the Bond film template. Skyfall, on the other hand, is a radically different type of Bond film, one that takes traditional Bond elements and sacrifices them or turns them upside down to create something new. Skyfall may be a better constructed and more thematically sound film than Spectre, and thus a better one generally speaking, but Spectre is a better Bond film, when considered as part of the Bond canon.

    And yes, that's the case even with the foster brother idea.
  • Posts: 12,475
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think Spectre is a better Bond film than Skyfall simply because it adjusts better to the Bond film template. Skyfall, on the other hand, is a radically different type of Bond film, one that takes traditional Bond elements and sacrifices them or turns them upside down to create something new. Skyfall may be a better constructed and more thematically sound film than Spectre, and thus a better one generally speaking, but Spectre is a better Bond film, when considered as part of the Bond canon.

    And yes, that's the case even with the foster brother idea.

    I’ve heard this argument a couple times but I just can’t agree. SF is still very traditional Bond in most ways. You have Bond’s aging and M’s past coming back to haunt her, but most of SF is still classic Bond. The title song, the PTS, the memorable villain, epic action, and the humor was also very Bondian.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,818
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Just on the topic of the 00 program, I never saw a problem with Denbigh and Mallory referring to it as the 'program', because IMO this is the title used at a planning and management level.
    The '00 section' is the program put into effect.
    Simple logic. Still, yes, there's sensitivity for a lot of items in the Craig films. And an even closer watch is applied to Bond 25.

    With the term Scooby Gang, it's beyond expressing displeasure. It's also a tool to mine displeasure from folks who have no problem with what they're calling a "Scooby Gang" (but are already worn out on hearing that term leveled). Again, very sensitive here to how the home office will interact with OO7 next time around.
  • Calling it the "00 program" wasn't problematic at all for me. It was like "stirred not shaken" from yolt, it's funny.
  • Bentley007Bentley007 Manitoba, Canada
    Posts: 575


    Thought this was interesting as it was rumoured Noel Gallagher and Paul Weller have written a song they want to submit as the Title Song for Bond25. Maybe he knows something. Probably not though.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,475
    Bentley007 wrote: »


    Thought this was interesting as it was rumoured Noel Gallagher and Paul Weller have written a song they want to submit as the Title Song for Bond25. Maybe he knows something. Probably not though.

    EDIT: Nevermind. Went inside the tweet.
  • I haven't seen it, but weren't the flying squirrel suits used in the Tomb Raider sequel?
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think Spectre is a better Bond film than Skyfall simply because it adjusts better to the Bond film template. Skyfall, on the other hand, is a radically different type of Bond film, one that takes traditional Bond elements and sacrifices them or turns them upside down to create something new. Skyfall may be a better constructed and more thematically sound film than Spectre, and thus a better one generally speaking, but Spectre is a better Bond film, when considered as part of the Bond canon.

    And yes, that's the case even with the foster brother idea.

    I’ve heard this argument a couple times but I just can’t agree. SF is still very traditional Bond in most ways. You have Bond’s aging and M’s past coming back to haunt her, but most of SF is still classic Bond. The title song, the PTS, the memorable villain, epic action, and the humor was also very Bondian.

    I'd say there are a few more things that are unconventional about it. One is that there is no real main Bond girl in the film, there are only two secondary ones. For me, this is perhaps the most radical departure from tradition. Also, there is the whole subplot about the relevance of spies today, tied to British history and the UK's place in the world, something that isn't explicitly dealt with in other Bond films. You mentioned Bond's aging and M's past, but there is also Bond's own past and the relationship between Bond and M, as a means of analyzing how loyalty and "love of country" has to be cultivated among spies only for them to be swiftly sacrificed if the circumstances demand it. But what it boils down to is that these themes are treated with enough depth that the film no longer feels like its primary purpose is to entertain, but rather to convey a series of messages. It's less of a traditional blockbuster and more of an art film. Not even Quantum of Solace, the second most artsy film in the series, reaches Skyfall's degree of artsiness, even though both do reflect higher artistic aspirations through their visuals (one primarily in the opera scene, the other in the jellyfish scene). And last but not least, one has to mention the fact the villain attacks Bond's lair instead of Bond attacking the villain's lair, a reversal of a classic Bond trope, which leads into an ending that's meant to be ultimately uplifting but in the face of great loss and suffering. We've had dramatic endings before in Bond but they've always been mostly about Bond; in Skyfall, everything he and M go through is meant to be tied to the history of their country.

    On the surface Skyfall appears to be a traditional Bond film, and it has plenty of traditional Bond elements, but deep down it feels like a strange mixture of past and present, of reality and Bondian fantasy.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 12,475
    mattjoes wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think Spectre is a better Bond film than Skyfall simply because it adjusts better to the Bond film template. Skyfall, on the other hand, is a radically different type of Bond film, one that takes traditional Bond elements and sacrifices them or turns them upside down to create something new. Skyfall may be a better constructed and more thematically sound film than Spectre, and thus a better one generally speaking, but Spectre is a better Bond film, when considered as part of the Bond canon.

    And yes, that's the case even with the foster brother idea.

    I’ve heard this argument a couple times but I just can’t agree. SF is still very traditional Bond in most ways. You have Bond’s aging and M’s past coming back to haunt her, but most of SF is still classic Bond. The title song, the PTS, the memorable villain, epic action, and the humor was also very Bondian.

    I'd say there are a few more things that are unconventional about it. One is that there is no real main Bond girl in the film, there are only two secondary ones. For me, this is perhaps the most radical departure from tradition. Also, there is the whole subplot about the relevance of spies today, tied to British history and the UK's place in the world, something that isn't explicitly dealt with in other Bond films. You mentioned Bond's aging and M's past, but there is also Bond's own past and the relationship between Bond and M, as a means of analyzing how loyalty and "love of country" has to be cultivated among spies only for them to be swiftly sacrificed if the circumstances demand it. But what it boils down to is that these themes are treated with enough depth that the film no longer feels like its primary purpose is to entertain, but rather to convey a series of messages. It's less of a traditional blockbuster and more of an art film. Not even Quantum of Solace, the second most artsy film in the series, reaches Skyfall's degree of artsiness, even though both do reflect higher artistic aspirations through their visuals (one primarily in the opera scene, the other in the jellyfish scene). And last but not least, one has to mention the fact the villain attacks Bond's lair instead of Bond attacking the villain's lair, a reversal of a classic Bond trope, which leads into an ending that's meant to be ultimately uplifting but in the face of great loss and suffering. We've had dramatic endings before in Bond but they've always been mostly about Bond; in Skyfall, everything he and M go through is meant to be tied to the history of their country.

    On the surface Skyfall appears to be a traditional Bond film, and it has plenty of traditional Bond elements, but deep down it feels like a strange mixture of past and present, of reality and Bondian fantasy.

    I don't deny it has its artsy, not-so-Bondy elements, but still not to the point where it's any less of a Bond film IMO. Not having a main Bond girl is probably the most unconventional aspect - I agree that's pretty different. Something like Bond's lair getting attacked instead is a unique and welcome change which helps avoids a common trope. I still think the film is as much a blockbuster as it is an art film; it has no shortage of action, and I never once felt like I wasn't watching a modern classic Bond film. You bring up good points about the film but I still maintain it feels just as much like a Bond/blockbuster film as it does a drama/art film.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    I know many people including myself are opposed with B25 going with the whole personal angle again, but as I watch Casino Royale on BBC right now, I can’t help but think how damn cool it would’ve been if Vesper didn’t die in CR, and she returns as the main villain for Craig’s final Bond movie.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    I know many people including myself are opposed with B25 going with the whole personal angle again, but as I watch Casino Royale on BBC right now, I can’t help but think how damn cool it would’ve been if Vesper didn’t die in CR, and she returns as the main villain for Craig’s final Bond movie.
    Careful there, mate. The purists will attack you for this. :))

    I also am one of those who really thought Vesper shouldn’t have died, but that’s how it was in the novel, so there was nothing they could’ve done about keeping her alive. The romantic in me still wants her alive, however, and secretly protected by Bond just like the way Ethan Hunt has protected his wife after the unseen events of faking her death in the fourth film. It’s just that she was too good a character to have died. And that’s mainly because of Eva making the character absolutely lovable.
  • Posts: 12,475
    I love Vesper's character, but making her have a surprise return would be a big mistake I think. I'm apprehensive enough about where they will go with Madeleine's character (I don't hate her at all, but I'm worried they may just repeat OHMSS and kill her off like Tracy).
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited November 2017 Posts: 15,423
    Naah, Vesper coming back has no chance. The Brothergate idiocy of Oberfeld was enough as is Spectre’s coherence of having a clever and sensible plot being nil. They won’t repeat those, now will they?
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    I know many people including myself are opposed with B25 going with the whole personal angle again, but as I watch Casino Royale on BBC right now, I can’t help but think how damn cool it would’ve been if Vesper didn’t die in CR, and she returns as the main villain for Craig’s final Bond movie.

    no.. they don't need to pull a card from the deck of daytime soap opera cliches... it would make the film QOS, and Bond's evolution through that movie completely pointless (i've had this same problem with the Fast&Furious franchise, when they killed off Letty - but then decided to bring her back - completely stupid)..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    I know many people including myself are opposed with B25 going with the whole personal angle again, but as I watch Casino Royale on BBC right now, I can’t help but think how damn cool it would’ve been if Vesper didn’t die in CR, and she returns as the main villain for Craig’s final Bond movie.

    Vesper finally revealed as the true the author of all Bond's pain?

    Congratulations for surpassing brothergate's imbecility which I thought was a record that would stand for millennia.

    And Gustav wonders why his petition to allow fans to throw in their two cents was derided?
  • Posts: 12,475
    It could be far worse than Blofeld being Bond's foster brother. It wasn't good but there are many ways to make it worse. For starters, making them biological brothers.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It could be far worse than Blofeld being Bond's foster brother. It wasn't good but there are many ways to make it worse. For starters, making them biological brothers.

    How about Vesper is actually Irma Bunt and has been shagging Blofeld all along?
  • Posts: 12,475
    FoxRox wrote: »
    It could be far worse than Blofeld being Bond's foster brother. It wasn't good but there are many ways to make it worse. For starters, making them biological brothers.

    How about Vesper is actually Irma Bunt and has been shagging Blofeld all along?

    Yup I'm done - peace out everyone :(
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Bond would rather "slash his wrists" than sleep with her ever again. ;)
  • Posts: 12,475
    500.gif

    tumblr_nylyszaAcx1uuzz5ao4_500.gif

    Just made it 10x worse. Cannot be unseen

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    @dominicgreene Time to post that vomiting gif, mate. :))
  • Posts: 12,475
    Sure is. Man there's no way Bond 25 could be that bad... right?!?!?
  • We may all be pleasantly surprised if we go in expecting to give ourselves the Hinx treatment.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I sincerely hope for their sake Bond 25 turns out to be a good film.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Better than good !!!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,591
    There's been plenty of discussion on this thread regarding Mendes and Campbell, but what if Forster was to come back? It might be interesting to see what kind of Bond film he'd make now, a decade or so later.
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