No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • The actual character of James Bond as created by Fleming is not featured in the majority of Bond films, not Moore films. The novels and the films are two different beasts. And one of them became a cultural impact and served as a public phenomenon. You do the math.

    No Fleming, No Bond.

    And as I said, the spirit of Fleming needs to be there.

    In the majority of Moore's it isn't.

    That probably is true but it still way more than in the Craig movies.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited February 2018 Posts: 13,978
    @mybudgetbond - I feel the same towards Moore, as a Bond actor. I know that some here hold Moore very close to their hearts, and I want to point out that I am not calling into question Roger More the person. I could happily loose him as Bond, extend Lazenby's era, and then either have another actor for the late 70's/early 80's, or have Lazenby hand the batton directly over to Dalton around 83/85/87.
  • mybudgetbondmybudgetbond The World
    Posts: 189
    @mybudgetbond - I feel the same towards Moore, as a Bond actor. I know that some here hold Moore very close to their hearts, and I want to point out that I am not calling into question Roger More the person. I could happily loose him as Bond, extend Lazenby's era, and then either have another actor for the late 70's/early 80's, or have Lazenby hand the batton directly over to Dalton around 83/85/87.

    +1

    I would love to have had more Lazenby!

    I hope I was clear too that my issues are with him as the character and not the person. He was a wonderful man.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,290
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Nolan said he had an idea for Bond that hadn’t been done before,
    That sums up the problem pretty precisely. We don´t need something that hasn´t been done before. We need what has been done before, done amazingly well. Nolan has proven time and again that he is no guarant for quality.

    Doing something that hasn´t been done before is an easy escape from simply doing it right. Most people will be so preoccupied with the aspect of innovation that they overlook the quality. And until they notice millions of tickets will have been wasted.



    As much as I'd love Nolan, Villeneuve or some other fresh blood, my money's on Mendes returning. But my money was also on Hillary Clinton so what do I know.
    I don't know anything. It's just a hunch :P

    There's more chance Mendes returns than Nolan or Villeneuve directs Craig's last Bond film.
    The constant mention of those three makes me feel like we live in very dark ages. Imagine the film music alone: Mendes would bring another Newman wash, and both Nolan or Villeneuve would bring Zimmer or one of his adepts. How can anyone approve of this?

    I only half-agree. If’d be amazing to get a new GF or FRWL, but really how likely is that compared to a new one with innovation? SP tried to make it more classic again, but failed in several ways; I fear if they tried again that’s how it would end up.
    SP looks to me like an attempt at crowd-pleasing by people who didn´t know what they were doing. They didn´t try to make it classic, what they did is they put a lot of obviously self-conscious signs into the film that claim,"Bond film!", instead of making a Bond film at the heart.
    What I would appreciate is simply developing the series on. That means appreciating what has been done so far, especially the good things, and go on from there. Doing "something that has never been done" sounds generous, but if a filmmaker says so, it would in reality result in ignorance of what has been done, while not improving anything.

    I completely agree. What worked about CR is that, even as it took cues from Bourne and Batman Begins, it developed into its own organic story. The casino, Vesper, the ending with White--that was all Bond--while not being something we had seen before in the series. The film was forward-, not backward-looking.

    The best Bond films, IMHO, bring their own originality rather than aping movie trends. Of course that applies to DN-GF, arguably TB and YOLT, and of course OHMSS.

    After that, it's pretty slim pickings--I'd argue FYEO and TLD were the entries that attempted something fresh for the series--until CR. All of those were inspired by Fleming, not by movie trends.

    That's what the series needs again.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    The truly wonderful/remarkable thing about each Bond is that he serves a meaningful place. They are so different and yet still purposeful. We may have our favorites, of course (SC and DC for me), but they're all important. GL fit perfectly with the counter culture. RM did, too, early on, and then with the Disco and New Wave eras of the late 70s/early 80s. TD's two films were excellent representations of the post-Reaganomics era. And then PB was post Soviet collapse. All perfect.

    SC and DC have been particularly meaningful: SC in a hardcore 60s, Cold War era; DC in a post-9/11 world.
    I partially agree. They may have all been properly cast for their time, but I'd say a few have overstayed their welcome and been out of tune during the later parts of their tenure.

    SC was perfect, agreed. He was smart to move on at the right time and even when he returned for DAF, he was the right man for the tone.

    I can't say if GL was the right man for anything. He happened to be in one of the best Bond films. That's about all. He may have been a rebel personally, but I'm referring more to the manner in which he portrayed Bond.

    RM was perfect for the 70's, but I'd say he wasn't right for the 80's, which had a more aggressive tone characterized by the Stallones, Gibsons, Bruces and Arnies.

    TD was cast to fit into that culture, but I don't think the public really bought into it. I'm not sure if PB would have been the right choice for 1986 either, but perhaps he would have fit the public's perception of Bond more.

    PB was great for the early 90s, but I think he was already out of tune by DAD, when muscular chaps like Diesel were taking hold.

    DC was perfect for the post 911 Bourne/Batman Begins world, but I'd say we've moved on again to a more fantastical environment.
    ---
    echo wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Nolan said he had an idea for Bond that hadn’t been done before,
    That sums up the problem pretty precisely. We don´t need something that hasn´t been done before. We need what has been done before, done amazingly well. Nolan has proven time and again that he is no guarant for quality.

    Doing something that hasn´t been done before is an easy escape from simply doing it right. Most people will be so preoccupied with the aspect of innovation that they overlook the quality. And until they notice millions of tickets will have been wasted.



    As much as I'd love Nolan, Villeneuve or some other fresh blood, my money's on Mendes returning. But my money was also on Hillary Clinton so what do I know.
    I don't know anything. It's just a hunch :P

    There's more chance Mendes returns than Nolan or Villeneuve directs Craig's last Bond film.
    The constant mention of those three makes me feel like we live in very dark ages. Imagine the film music alone: Mendes would bring another Newman wash, and both Nolan or Villeneuve would bring Zimmer or one of his adepts. How can anyone approve of this?

    I only half-agree. If’d be amazing to get a new GF or FRWL, but really how likely is that compared to a new one with innovation? SP tried to make it more classic again, but failed in several ways; I fear if they tried again that’s how it would end up.
    SP looks to me like an attempt at crowd-pleasing by people who didn´t know what they were doing. They didn´t try to make it classic, what they did is they put a lot of obviously self-conscious signs into the film that claim,"Bond film!", instead of making a Bond film at the heart.
    What I would appreciate is simply developing the series on. That means appreciating what has been done so far, especially the good things, and go on from there. Doing "something that has never been done" sounds generous, but if a filmmaker says so, it would in reality result in ignorance of what has been done, while not improving anything.

    I completely agree. What worked about CR is that, even as it took cues from Bourne and Batman Begins, it developed into its own organic story. The casino, Vesper, the ending with White--that was all Bond--while not being something we had seen before in the series. The film was forward-, not backward-looking.

    The best Bond films, IMHO, bring their own originality rather than aping movie trends. Of course that applies to DN-GF, arguably TB and YOLT, and of course OHMSS.

    After that, it's pretty slim pickings--I'd argue FYEO and TLD were the entries that attempted something fresh for the series--until CR. All of those were inspired by Fleming, not by movie trends.

    That's what the series needs again.
    I agree with your comments, but don't agree with your examples. I believe SF was an excellent way to move forward while embracing the past (plot holes aside).

    So ultimately we're never all going to agree on which Bond films are the best for their times (or even which actors are best) because we are all so different and became fans at different times and with different contexts. Some of us prefer suave, and others prefer a bit more blunt. Etc. etc.

    This is why I think it's important to maintain some flexibility with the narrative, not box oneself in, and shake it up from time to time (in more ways than one). That goes for shifting everything, including the actor. Keep it fresh.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Yes, I would say post 2012 things began to shift in a more larger than life direction. SP demonstrated a clear effort to move back into that territory, but that's at odds with the reasons Craig is sticking around. He wants a meaty chapter in Bond life to get his teeth into. So inspite of the series continued success, Bond is swimming against the tide somewhat at the moment. We're still existing in that afterglow of 9/11 when that happened while Brosnan was still Bond. Things won't feel truly modern and "of the moment" again until Craig leaves and they can deliver the supremely executed formula driven outing that what the franchise is in desperate need of.
  • Posts: 5,767
    echo wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Nolan said he had an idea for Bond that hadn’t been done before,
    That sums up the problem pretty precisely. We don´t need something that hasn´t been done before. We need what has been done before, done amazingly well. Nolan has proven time and again that he is no guarant for quality.

    Doing something that hasn´t been done before is an easy escape from simply doing it right. Most people will be so preoccupied with the aspect of innovation that they overlook the quality. And until they notice millions of tickets will have been wasted.



    As much as I'd love Nolan, Villeneuve or some other fresh blood, my money's on Mendes returning. But my money was also on Hillary Clinton so what do I know.
    I don't know anything. It's just a hunch :P

    There's more chance Mendes returns than Nolan or Villeneuve directs Craig's last Bond film.
    The constant mention of those three makes me feel like we live in very dark ages. Imagine the film music alone: Mendes would bring another Newman wash, and both Nolan or Villeneuve would bring Zimmer or one of his adepts. How can anyone approve of this?

    I only half-agree. If’d be amazing to get a new GF or FRWL, but really how likely is that compared to a new one with innovation? SP tried to make it more classic again, but failed in several ways; I fear if they tried again that’s how it would end up.
    SP looks to me like an attempt at crowd-pleasing by people who didn´t know what they were doing. They didn´t try to make it classic, what they did is they put a lot of obviously self-conscious signs into the film that claim,"Bond film!", instead of making a Bond film at the heart.
    What I would appreciate is simply developing the series on. That means appreciating what has been done so far, especially the good things, and go on from there. Doing "something that has never been done" sounds generous, but if a filmmaker says so, it would in reality result in ignorance of what has been done, while not improving anything.

    I completely agree. What worked about CR is that, even as it took cues from Bourne and Batman Begins, it developed into its own organic story. The casino, Vesper, the ending with White--that was all Bond--while not being something we had seen before in the series. The film was forward-, not backward-looking.

    The best Bond films, IMHO, bring their own originality rather than aping movie trends. Of course that applies to DN-GF, arguably TB and YOLT, and of course OHMSS.

    After that, it's pretty slim pickings--I'd argue FYEO and TLD were the entries that attempted something fresh for the series--until CR. All of those were inspired by Fleming, not by movie trends.

    That's what the series needs again.
    I think they can rip off any current trend they like, but they have to do it with panache and without self-consciousness. If the heart shines and not fear, almost anything will work. Which is not to say they should altogether skip innovation.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    When the script allows to play out Craig‘s strengths, we will see a great B25. He said for himself he can‘t do „the Roger Moore thing“ in an interview, even said with Austin Powers around it‘s very hard to find the hour balance ... I still wonder why they did go into that direction.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    boldfinger wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Nolan said he had an idea for Bond that hadn’t been done before,
    That sums up the problem pretty precisely. We don´t need something that hasn´t been done before. We need what has been done before, done amazingly well. Nolan has proven time and again that he is no guarant for quality.

    Doing something that hasn´t been done before is an easy escape from simply doing it right. Most people will be so preoccupied with the aspect of innovation that they overlook the quality. And until they notice millions of tickets will have been wasted.



    As much as I'd love Nolan, Villeneuve or some other fresh blood, my money's on Mendes returning. But my money was also on Hillary Clinton so what do I know.
    I don't know anything. It's just a hunch :P

    There's more chance Mendes returns than Nolan or Villeneuve directs Craig's last Bond film.
    The constant mention of those three makes me feel like we live in very dark ages. Imagine the film music alone: Mendes would bring another Newman wash, and both Nolan or Villeneuve would bring Zimmer or one of his adepts. How can anyone approve of this?

    I only half-agree. If’d be amazing to get a new GF or FRWL, but really how likely is that compared to a new one with innovation? SP tried to make it more classic again, but failed in several ways; I fear if they tried again that’s how it would end up.
    SP looks to me like an attempt at crowd-pleasing by people who didn´t know what they were doing. They didn´t try to make it classic, what they did is they put a lot of obviously self-conscious signs into the film that claim,"Bond film!", instead of making a Bond film at the heart.
    What I would appreciate is simply developing the series on. That means appreciating what has been done so far, especially the good things, and go on from there. Doing "something that has never been done" sounds generous, but if a filmmaker says so, it would in reality result in ignorance of what has been done, while not improving anything.

    I completely agree. What worked about CR is that, even as it took cues from Bourne and Batman Begins, it developed into its own organic story. The casino, Vesper, the ending with White--that was all Bond--while not being something we had seen before in the series. The film was forward-, not backward-looking.

    The best Bond films, IMHO, bring their own originality rather than aping movie trends. Of course that applies to DN-GF, arguably TB and YOLT, and of course OHMSS.

    After that, it's pretty slim pickings--I'd argue FYEO and TLD were the entries that attempted something fresh for the series--until CR. All of those were inspired by Fleming, not by movie trends.

    That's what the series needs again.
    I think they can rip off any current trend they like, but they have to do it with panache and without self-consciousness. If the heart shines and not fear, almost anything will work. Which is not to say they should altogether skip innovation.
    Well put. I fully agree. Long time fans can see through half baked attempts, and so can the general public. You've got to believe in what you do.
    SeanCraig wrote: »
    When the script allows to play out Craig‘s strengths, we will see a great B25. He said for himself he can‘t do „the Roger Moore thing“ in an interview, even said with Austin Powers around it‘s very hard to find the hour balance ... I still wonder why they did go into that direction.
    Because that's where the market is headed. It's really not about the actor, but the direction. The actor just fills a role. That's why Bond has survived for so long while other series have always required substantial (and sometimes not so successful) reboots. Bond has been flexible and adaptable, and the best long serving actors are that way too.
  • Posts: 12,466
    I think even if the market is swinging toward more comedic action films, people will enjoy a serious Bond if if’s well-made. After all, look at Logan. It doesn’t have to be silly to be appealing. Some complain the dark, gritty style is getting old, but I don’t think making films silly for the heck of it helps much.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    FoxRox wrote: »
    I think even if the market is swinging toward more comedic action films, people will enjoy a serious Bond if if’s well-made. After all, look at Logan. It doesn’t have to be silly to be appealing. Some complain the dark, gritty style is getting old, but I don’t think making films silly for the heck of it helps much.
    Neither do I and that's not what I'm saying at all. Nobody wants a 'silly' Bond. On the contrary actually. It's a fine line and requires balance and deftness to deliver a Bond film with levity and credibility.

    What I'm saying is do what you do well (I think you agree with me that SP wasn't that) and ensure that your actor can play to the type of film you're making (and not the other way around). Ultimately though, Bond follows the market. The much touted Logan was an exception to the rule, and quite frankly I didn't think too much of it myself (I can appreciate that I'm in the minority).
  • Posts: 12,466
    I thought Logan was great, and I’m not even an X-Men fan really.

    For me personally, SF balanced the dark stuff and the humor very well. Its funny moments were far more subtle and believable than SP’s. Craig’s Bond really shouldn’t go funnier than SF probably, which has some good humor but never went too far.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree. In my view, SF got it just right when it came to the humour.

    The only time it failed was with "circle of life", and unfortunately SP is a film riddled with that kind of humour.

    They have to be careful with Craig though, because he can sometimes come across as a bit of an a** when they try to give him something humorous to say. The writing has to be spot-on and careful in order to accommodate the sensitive times we live in.
  • Posts: 4,619
    If my theory is correct: max. T-21 days until a major announcement.
  • Posts: 12,466
    Random prediction: March 13 is director announcement.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    If my theory is correct: max. T-21 days until a major announcement.
    The day after the Oscars. I presume your theory therefore involves the 2nd most successful working British director today (David Yates holds the #1 spot).
  • Posts: 9,846
    Personally I think assuming the November 2019 date isn’t changed it’s insane that this year we will get the director location major cast and likely the title all before December 31st and to quote that annoying announcer “it will excite Bond fans across the globe”
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Risico007 wrote: »
    Personally I think assuming the November 2019 date isn’t changed it’s insane that this year we will get the director location major cast and likely the title all before December 31st and to quote that annoying announcer “it will excite Bond fans across the globe”

    Yes, and anytime now would be great to start receiving said info.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I still can’t believe that Broccoli and Wilson actually signed off on brother gate, I still can’t understand. It also tells me of their lack of involvement and enthusiasm for the projects and probably B25.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I think we'll definitely get a major announcement on August-September 2017.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    Would they wait for MI to clear out ?
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 12,466
    I still can’t believe that Broccoli and Wilson actually signed off on brother gate, I still can’t understand. It also tells me of their lack of involvement and enthusiasm for the projects and probably B25.

    Regardless of how Bond 25 turns out, I think it might be best for EON to sell. I definitely worry about the enthusiasm level. Whoever is handling Bond should be doing it with plenty of energy and care. SP lacked both sadly.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Babs and Craig are bored by the thought of making a traditional Bond adventure, that why we keep getting these personal angles inserted into the story. Without that they really have no interest in the usual Bond tropes.

    Babs made the Brosnan films out of a sense of duty to protect her father's legacy, but when it came time for the reboot, she had to tune the franchise so that it suited her, otherwise her heart wouldn't be in it and the films would fall off.
    I'm always amused whenever I see people saying how essential the reboot was in 2006, when most audiences understand that with a new Bond things change. We made the transition from Moore without the need for a Bond origin story, and from Dalton to Brosnan too.
    The reboot was not needed from the point of view of the audience, but it was needed for Babs (that's why she got someone like Craig to play Bond). It does not shock me to hear that they are thinking of selling the franchise after Craig leaves, since they don't really the same motivation to tell ordinary Bond stories.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'd say P&W are instrumental in this approach as well. After all, once they were hired they started down this 'drama' approach, portraying Dench as a surrogate 'mother' and what not (*cringe*). The Craig era has just taken that forward a few steps. Yes, I agree that his casting was done for a specific reason. It has certainly paid off at the box office, but arguably that's only happened with even more drama in the form of Sam Mendes (consider his theatre background for a moment).

    I still say we're due for a change in technique and approach. I hope the producers see that and do what's necessary, either next time around, or for the one after that.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    After 25 years of moving steadily in one direction, I can't see much chance of turning back now. All Bond really needs to be are colourful adventures like LALD and TSWLM but with more attention paid to the script so that the constitute elements of a Bond outing add up to a greater and more timely whole. That's it, there's really no need for Bond stories to be complicated, or the characters to be complex or realistic. The pieces combined just need to equate to a little more overall than last time. Nothing about Bond needs redefining at this point, or extrapolating on. The formula is there and always has been - it works. They just have to put their best foot forward, and not second guess themselves, or overthink things, and make a Bond film from the heart not the head.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    After 25 years of moving steadily in one direction, I can't see much chance of turning back now. All Bond really needs to be are colourful adventures like LALD and TSWLM but with more attention paid to the script so that the constitute elements of a Bond outing add up to a greater and more timely whole. That's it, there's really no need for Bond stories to be complicated, or the characters to be complex or realistic. The pieces combined just need to equate to a little more overall than last time. Nothing about Bond needs redefining at this point, or extrapolating on. The formula is there and always has been - it works. They just have to put their best foot forward, and not second guess themselves, or overthink things, and make a Bond film from the heart not the head.
    I agree with everything you've said here.

    Having said that, I'd argue that they are in fact making films from the heart. It's just that their heart is a bit different from yours, mine and a few others. That's why there was a deliberate tonal shift after P&W came in for TWINE. They are making the films they want to make, but there is a distinct feeling that formula is being given lip service. Formula isn't something to be taken for granted. It's nothing to be ashamed of either. To do it well requires real skill and belief, especially since it's been done so many times before by definition. You can't fake it. Perhaps it's better not to try if one isn't really behind it (SP).
  • Posts: 5,767
    I really don´t think the problem is delving into characters´ personal lives, but poor execution and lack of selfless recklessness. If all characters make sense and are given space to show that, almost anything is possible. But as long as they try to put every ingredient under the sun into one dish, it´s bound to taste awful. The negative effect is multiplied by talking the talk while not walking the walk.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I get the feeling with the more recent films that they're throwing scraps out to us rabid fans of the old style of films. Almost like they're doing us a favour from up on high.

    *Oh, you want an Aston Martin gag do you?*
    * Well here you are then.*
    * Run along now, while we focus on more pressing 'emotional' and 'family matters'.*

    I wish it wasn't so obvious. This all began, as I said, with TWINE imho. That was the first film where I felt they were taking us for granted when it came to action and suspense at the expense of drama.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @bondjames, and that doesn't even seem to be what most of us fans want now, as it seems a lot of members on here are tired of the endless Aston Martin DB5 appearance.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Oh I agree @Creasy47, and that's the real irony. It's almost like they don't even know what formula means. Like they've lost touch with their past. At the risk of getting hate thrown my way, perhaps they should sit in a room and see what Tom's been up to over at MI. They might learn something.
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