No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    @peter, that's an interesting way of describing SF. 'A Bond film framed within a Mendes film'. I like that. In a way he played around with the Bond structure to accommodate his key themes, ideas and messages. Ultimately we got a very unique film as a result.

    With respect to SP, as far as I'm aware, Craig wanted to make a more traditional style Bond film. At least that is what I remember reading way back when. That they were going to 'go big' and 'bring back the irony' etc. Script problems aside, perhaps with such a goal, Mendes wasn't the right person to hold out for. Maybe SP was always calling out for a more traditional action based director. Having said that, to some degree I think he saved the film with his flourishes despite the negative impact on pacing, because the script is so poor that one almost needs to be distracted by Kubrickian and other visual touches. So maybe SP is a 'Mendes film framed, or hiding within a Bond film'?

    I had forgotten that Forster did WWZ. I quite enjoyed that film, but as you said, it came afterwards. You have confirmed my suspicion that QoS was quite different to anything he'd done previously.

    So let's see what Boyle comes up with. Chances are it will be more a SF style endeavour - meaning a 'Bond film framed within a Boyle film', given he has apparently had this 'idea' percolating for quite some time like Mendes did for SF.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @bondjames , you may be correct in saying Mendes wasn't the right person to hold out for re: SP.

    I personally don't think he was. I think he spent his creative powers on SF... According to the leaks, he was ready to bolt the production altogether...

    But, if I was the producer of a billion dollar film, I'd do what EoN, MGM and Sony did: put the band back together.

    And I agree: he partially saved the mess (that he was a part of; forcing and shoe-horning the past to the present), via beautiful visuals... But this was also a problem: his pacing was terrible... He kept SF moving forward (to the lodge), because there was an End Game", but;

    SP was composed of very long scenes (some exceptional, others not so (9eyes))... that led to a tacked on and very weak Third Act...

    Re: Boyle: I'd swing more to Forster than Mendes-- I have no idea what his Bond will look like, other than Boyle is consistently kinetic and high energy (not something that could be said of Forster's pre-QoS)... As I said somewhere else, whether I like B25 or not, I know I wont be bored.
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 2,599
    I honestly feel it would be interesting to explore more of bond's past when he was a very young man at Eton where he could have met the first woman he fell in love with I honestly never had a problem with the latest films exploring bond's past and how he came to be even though I admit spectre was a bit sloppy with the bond blofeld backstory

    I agree. I can’t understand why so many people are against showcasing Bond’s past on screen. I’d like to atleast hear about him getting kicked out of Eton because of the incident with the maid for example. I’d love to see films of him in the war. John Pearson wrote some wonderful bits regarding this in his Bond biography. It might not be a good idea to go so far back as having Bond as a teenager on screen but I’d love to see him as an adult in the war and then getting recruited into the service. I see nothing wrong with this. I definitely think there should be some dialogue regarding Bond's time at Eton though.

    What I am sick of is villains having personal connections to Bond or M...although overall I do really like Skyfall. Yes, Spectre was a sloppy mess though. There were some good scenes but overall it wasn’t the best.

  • Posts: 11,425
    DoctorNo wrote: »
    I’d like to see a Villeneuve Bond too, but really Boyle is a better choice to shake up and energize Craig’s performance

    I agree. storytelling is paramount to what Boyle does. he (nearly) always has a compelling narrative at the heart of his films.
  • Posts: 12,837
    Bounine wrote: »
    I honestly feel it would be interesting to explore more of bond's past when he was a very young man at Eton where he could have met the first woman he fell in love with I honestly never had a problem with the latest films exploring bond's past and how he came to be even though I admit spectre was a bit sloppy with the bond blofeld backstory

    I agree. I can’t understand why so many people are against showcasing Bond’s past on screen. I’d like to atleast hear about him getting kicked out of Eton because of the incident with the maid for example. I’d love to see films of him in the war. John Pearson wrote some wonderful bits regarding this in his Bond biography. It might not be a good idea to go so far back as having Bond as a teenager on screen but I’d love to see him as an adult in the war and then getting recruited into the service. I see nothing wrong with this. I definitely think there should be some dialogue regarding Bond's time at Eton though.

    What I am sick of is villains having personal connections to Bond or M...although overall I do really like Skyfall. Yes, Spectre was a sloppy mess though. There were some good scenes but overall it wasn’t the best.

    I know the young Bond books are meant to actually be pretty good, but I just don't see the appeal in seeing Bond's teenage years, and mentioning it in dialogue could just feel very forced (did Fleming ever even mention it outside of the obituary?). I think the whole "not coming from money" bit in CR is all we need, nothing more heavy handed than that. Something I really don't like about the Mendes movies is how Bond being 007 has been made out to be some sort of childhood destiny and I really hope we don't get any stories linking back to there again.

    I also don't want to actually see him get recruited because part of the appeal of Bond to me is that he's always been there fully formed, don't think we need an origin story. I wouldn't mind a story that drew on his time in the Navy or whatever he was though (Royal Marines then SBS seems most likely? Him being a Commander just seems a bit outdated imo).
  • Posts: 11,425
    imagine Craig in naval uniform now
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 12,837
    Getafix wrote: »
    imagine Craig in naval uniform now

    I don't think it'd work and that isn't a knock on Craig, it looked weird on Brosnan too.

    Him being ex Navy worked originally because of the World War 2 background, where he was just a "chocolate sailor" and was really a spy from the off. But now it just feels a bit dated imo, going from Navy officer to the black ops assassins that the 00s are written as in the Craig movies doesn't seem like a natural progression at all. I think special forces is more likely and if they wanted to clarify it then I'd go Royal Marines then SBS, because at least then there's still a link to his RN roots but it's given a more modern spin.

    I thought Connery was believeable in the uniform but Roger wore it best. He just has the vibe of an old school officer about him. Can't describe it, it's probably down to how well presented and dignified he is, but I get the vibe even even with just the way he stands and moves. And you really believe it when he leads the rest of them into battle in TSWLM. When I think Commander Bond I think Roger Moore. It might be to do with him (correct me if I'm wrong) being the only one with military experience because I think he did mandatory service in the army.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Getafix wrote: »
    imagine Craig in naval uniform now
    I don't think it'd work and that isn't a knock on Craig, it looked weird on Brosnan too.

    Him being ex Navy worked originally because of the World War 2 background, where he was just a "chocolate sailor" and was really a spy from the off. But now it just feels a bit dated imo, going from Navy officer to the black ops assassins that the 00s are written as in the Craig movies doesn't seem like a natural progression at all. I think special forces is more likely and if they wanted to clarify it then I'd go Royal Marines then SBS, because at least then there's still a link to his RN roots but it's given a more modern spin.

    I thought Connery was believeable in the uniform but Roger wore it best. He just has the vibe of an old school officer about him. Can't describe it, it's probably down to how well presented and dignified he is, but I get the vibe even even with just the way he stands and moves. And you really believe it when he leads the rest of them into battle in TSWLM. When I think Commander Bond I think Roger Moore. It might be to do with him (correct me if I'm wrong) being the only one with military experience because I think he did mandatory service in the army.
    Very good points!

    While I don't think Brosnan looked weird in the uniform, the Royal Navy connection definitely feels outdated, as I'd imagine Bond (or any black ops operative for the matter) today won't be drafted from RNVR to a special operations branch to carry out the work of a soldier-spy. Royal Marines would fit in better, but I also think, in order to keep tabs with the Navy, Special Boat Service would work too as an update. Perhaps Bond is SBS's liaison in the Royal Navy, so that'd be a great explanation to the compromise.
  • Posts: 4,409
    Two Bond alums, Sam Mendes and Jez Butterworth, both had victories last night at tht Olivier Awards:
    https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2018/apr/09/olivier-awards-2018-best-quotes

    I think Sam Mendes's return is pretty much ruled out (I watched a few beats from Spectre on ITV2 last night and was reminded how boring it was). I think the francise needs someone like Danny Boyle.

    However, we need someone like Jez Butterworth to do the script. He only ever polished the Mendes films and never got to really flout his talent.

    John Hodge's writing credentials worry me. He's a great at witty black comedy. But can he write more sincere serious-minded stuff that Craig has grown accustomed to.

    I think out of Danny's previous writers, Simon Beaufoy is most suited to the job.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    My main problem with Jez Butterworth's credibility is that... we don't know what did he exactly polish. Sure, his involvement was apparently crucial on SF and SP, but we're never told what did he add, what did he polish, or what did he edit. We only know Purvis & Wade rewrote Logan's script based on the latter's story concept and draft, and penned the original story idea for SF where the dialogues and lines were accordingly added by Logan (as far as I remember stated by Purvis & Wade on SF's premiere). We don't know what Butterworth did or didn't do.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    They probably couldn t tell you themselves who did exactly what.
  • They probably couldn t tell you themselves who did exactly what.
    There was a Barbara Broccoli email that came out in the Sony hacks. It said that Purvis and Wade had revised the third act while Butterworth was going over the earlier sections of the script, tightening it up. I forget if it specified dialogue or went beyond that. This was around the time the Dec. 1, 2014 draft was being submitted.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    It's why I prefer less people working a script: the more that start putting their hands on it, the more clashing voices/ideas we get. I'll be quite happy if Hodge is the only one (or at least one of two) working on this script, and it isn't tweaked heavily by others.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    Who wrote trance? I haven't seen it yet but isn't it supposed to be boyle's most bondian film so far?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    Who wrote trance? I haven't seen it yet but isn't it supposed to be boyle's most bondian film so far?

    IMDB lists John Hodge and Joe Ahearne as having worked on the screenplay.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Who wrote trance? I haven't seen it yet but isn't it supposed to be boyle's most bondian film so far?
    It's not a Bondian film. It's an enjoyable psychological thriller voyage, but it's not Bondian in the slightest.
  • mattjoesmattjoes THE MOONRAKER TAPES ARE LOST THE MOONRAKER TAPES ARE LOST
    Posts: 7,040
    peter wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I still have trouble contemplating what a Danny Boyle Bond film would look like, in a Craig film context. Totally bizarre choice.

    And this is what makes B25 so exciting to think about. I have absolutely no clue how he’s going to do this! Boyle is so inventive and kinetic, but also quite varied in execution, my mind draws a blank at what his Bond will look like.

    My only prediction for me personally will be: whether I like the film or not, I know I won’t be bored. Outside of this?....
    Next year:
    "I can't believe Bond got high and cut his own arm off to escape the villain's lair..."
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    edited April 2018 Posts: 1,755
    Do we know if Craig will be promoting Kings at all anytime soon?
  • edited April 2018 Posts: 11,425
    This thread needs a discussion about whether it would be a good idea to have cameos from all the surviving Bonds. Dalton as villain, Brozza as the MI6 janitor and Sean as a holographic uber mentor. Laz will play himself. And an ‘In memory of Sir Rog’ at the start of course.

    Obviously it’s a dismal idea but in the absence of news or any good ideas I think it’s worth flogging this one to death for a couple of pages.
  • Posts: 1,497

    While I don't think Brosnan looked weird in the uniform, the Royal Navy connection definitely feels outdated, as I'd imagine Bond (or any black ops operative for the matter) today won't be drafted from RNVR to a special operations branch to carry out the work of a soldier-spy. Royal Marines would fit in better, but I also think, in order to keep tabs with the Navy, Special Boat Service would work too as an update. Perhaps Bond is SBS's liaison in the Royal Navy, so that'd be a great explanation to the compromise.

    Wasn't Connery in the Navy also? Maybe that's why they carry themselves well in the uniform. Agreed though, Craig (and Dalton for that matter), have more of that loner assassin vibe about them. Which actually ticks me off when I think about how many times Craig goes rogue. A military man wouldn't be so dissident in disobeying orders so frequently. Hopefully for B25 it's for Queen and Country no matter what the circumstances.

  • Posts: 12,489
    I’d love to see Craig wear the Naval suit. Connery and Moore looked great in it.
  • Posts: 17,785
    Craig should definitely wear a navy suit if the story allows it. But he'll never match Moore in that department.

    swlmnavy-main.jpg

    Nobody does it better!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    Agreed on Moore.

    I think it's important that the film makers avoid putting Craig in further situations which will remind viewers of his predecessors. From my perspective at least, that was a major issue in SP. Whenever I saw him in scenarios which reminded me of prior entries, he came up short. That includes the opening office scene as well as the gags in the Aston. To be frank, the same thing happened when I saw Brosnan in the uniform in TND.

    If I were them, I'd try to put him in new unique situations rather than just shoehorn him into clothing to evoke something from before.

    The naval uniform would have been best used in 2017 (1967, 1977, 1997, 2017) to accommodate tradition.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,356
    This is probably the closest we'll get to seeing Craig in a Navy uniform.
    4scncJzl.jpg
  • Posts: 5,767
    Birdleson wrote: »
    If you take away Bond's past as a Navy Commander you may as well ditch the character and start with a new agent. That is too intrinsic to who he is; it's a core part of his history and the character.
    Why d you say "if"? Didn´t CR claim Bond to be former SAS, not Navy? It doesn´t say so explicitly in the film, only in the dossier that was online as part of viral marketing before the release of the film, but it was there.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    SF's obituary mentions his history in the Navy.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Ah you´re right, I forgot that.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    It's funny how we go from excitement from the danny boyle news to deprived of news in a heartbeat
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm quite excited to be honest. MGM potentially being on the block is the most interesting news I've read in quite some time. Hopefully something happens on that front to shake up the inertia over at HQ and get things moving in a more regular fashion on a go-forward basis.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    It's funny how we go from excitement from the danny boyle news to deprived of news in a heartbeat

    It's not like they're going to drip feed key information from now until its release date. We're bound to have months and months of awaiting crucial info until production begins.
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