No Time To Die: Production Diary

19909919939959962507

Comments

  • edited August 2017 Posts: 3,274
    bondjames wrote: »
    Arnold is poorly approximating Barry, (...) I give Newman credit for attempting to make it his own with SF
    ... who was poorly approximating Hans Zimmer.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Zekidk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Arnold is poorly approximating Barry, (...) I give Newman credit for attempting to make it his own with SF
    ... who was poorly approximating Hans Zimmer.
    +1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Zekidk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Arnold is poorly approximating Barry, (...) I give Newman credit for attempting to make it his own with SF
    ... who was poorly approximating Hans Zimmer.
    Nonsense. There is far more to the SF score than Zimmer'esque cues, although they are certainly there.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Like I said, I would be quite happy if they dump both of these two and get someone in who can create a fresh cohesive sound for the series, drawing inspiration from the classics pre-1989 without aping it.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    If the two-film rumor is true, DC's era will be defined by the double-billing movies. What do I mean? CR and QOS go together. SF and SP go together. Will B25 and B26 go together as well? I guess we'll find out!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
    Hahaha! Now this made my day, @Murdock. Oh that's a very good and accurate one! =))
  • Posts: 3,274
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
    That's harsh. And I really don't understand why there only seems to be two camps: the ones defending Newman and bashing Arnold, and the one defending Arnold and bashing Newman.

    Personally I would have preferred Arnold, but I have a hard time criticizing Newman, since there were some wonderful cues in both SF and SP.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
    That's harsh. And I really don't understand why there only seems to be two camps: the ones defending Newman and bashing Arnold, and the one defending Arnold and bashing Newman.

    Personally I would have preferred Arnold, but I have a hard time criticizing Newman, since there were some wonderful cues in both SF and SP.

    Tend to agree. Arnold is my preference because he uses the Barry model of recurring leitmotifs and was always keen to make the theme intrinsic to the score.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
    That's harsh. And I really don't understand why there only seems to be two camps: the ones defending Newman and bashing Arnold, and the one defending Arnold and bashing Newman.

    Personally I would have preferred Arnold, but I have a hard time criticizing Newman, since there were some wonderful cues in both SF and SP.

    I was kidding of course, I'm a bit of a brat you see. ;)

    I've mentioned lots of times that there is a small handful of Newman tracks I actually enjoy but Most of what he's done doesn't do it for me and the recycled music from Skyfall just adds to that disappointment.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I really don't know what Newman was up to with SP. Having said that, given my opinion of the film it's just par for the course. To call it mediocre is to pay it an undeserved compliment.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sadly the majority of the film was temp tracked using music from Skyfall and they kept what they liked. It's very unfortunate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    He definitely showed with Los Muertos Vivos Estan that he has the goods and can turn it on when required. That tracking shot was the highlight for me, and not just when it comes to the music. Everybody shot their load there imho.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I was so sad when Los Muertos Vivos Estan turned out to be the only Bond theme heavy track in the whole score. I hope whoever scores Bond25 actually has the balls to use the Bond theme and weave it like a tapestry throughout the score.
  • Goldeneye0094Goldeneye0094 Conyers, GA
    Posts: 464
    I would welcome arnold back to score bond 25 thomas newman did great with skyfall but for SPECTRE he seemed to have reused the same score
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Ever since Barry has left the building the music of the 007 movies have taken a serious dip in quality. Makes you wonder why EON does not invest more money in a top of the line music man.
    +1.

    I can't understand this fascination with David Arnold personally. He's a third rate hack to my ears, albeit a loyal one. As far as I'm concerned he's operating well above his pay grade and it shows unfortunately. I'm no Newman fan either. Neither of them are up to the task. I enjoyed elements of CR, QoS and SF but I wouldn't put any of these scores anywhere close to the excellence this series produced in its heyday when it was a genre benchmark.

    I sincerely hope EON do invest in someone with the ability to infuse a new musical sound for Bond. Newman at least tried in SF, but his approach is not right for the series.

    Me neither @BondJames. Personally, I'd love to find a man, a composer, who knows how to compose and arrange unforgettable leitmotifs and melodies! Melodies that you can hum in your car. One that really can....bring atmosphere to a movie, that can do both heartfelt romance and riveting action sequences. One that actually deserves the comparison with John Barry.

    So what about this:

    "Gold" (2016), score by Daniel Pemberton (you'll love this @BondJames):


    "Mal De Pierres" (2016), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    "Steve Jobs" (2015), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    "The Man From U.N.C.L.E." (2015), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    I can't wait for Pemberton's score on Aaron Sorkin's upcoming film "Molly's Game" (spy, drama, biography)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Those are all excellent tracks @Gustav_Graves. You're right, I do like the Gold one in particular. Atmosphere is indeed the right word. That's precisely what Barry brought to a scene and I hardly (if ever) get that in an Arnold score (perhaps occasionally in CR/QoS at the Opera in particular).

    Regarding Pemberton in general: he's very talented and can definitely compose memorable melodies. As I've mentioned previously though, I find he tends to overshadow the scenes with his sounds in the films which he composes for. Also, I detect an element of repetition in his compositions. If he could just tone it down a little & provide a bit more variation within a certain track to mirror how a particular film scene develops I think he could be an excellent choice. Certainly better than Arnold for me.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    bondjames wrote: »
    Those are all excellent tracks @Gustav_Graves. You're right, I do like the Gold one in particular. Atmosphere is indeed the right word. That's precisely what Barry brought to a scene and I hardly (if ever) get that in an Arnold score (perhaps occasionally in CR/QoS at the Opera in particular).

    Regarding Pemberton in general: he's very talented and can definitely compose memorable melodies. As I've mentioned previously though, I find he tends to overshadow the scenes with his sounds in the films which he composes for. Also, I detect an element of repetition in his compositions. If he could just tone it down a little & provide a bit more variation within a certain track to mirror how a particular film scene develops I think he could be an excellent choice. Certainly better than Arnold for me.

    I watched gold in theatres- it was hands down one of the worst films I have ever seen. Scores fine though
  • QQ7QQ7 Croatia
    edited August 2017 Posts: 371
    Don't know is it mentioned here but mayor of Dubrovnik confirmed for Croatian TV channel that James Bond is coming to Dubrovnik.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    QQ7 wrote: »
    Don't know is it mentioned here but mayor of Dubrovnik confirmed for Croatian TV channel that James Bond is coming to Dubrovnik.
    Just recently?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I thought that was a while back. Given the film is some while away from production, I wonder what caused him to say that about a year ago.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 12,837
    Newman has his moments but I definitely prefer Arnold. Bond music should be strong memorable and melodic, with cool recurring motifs. Newman didn't seem to get that. Arnold did. Call it a pastiche if you like but at least he clearly respected and understood why Barry's scores were so good.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I really don't know what Newman was up to with SP. Having said that, given my opinion of the film it's just par for the course. To call it mediocre is to pay it an undeserved compliment.

    My theory is that him phoning it in so badly was sort of a middle finger to EON. Apparently they clashed badly during SF (I think it was about his refusing to use the Adele theme in the score, they had to fight him just to include that one use at the casino) to the point that @JamesPage was dropping hints that he wouldn't be back for Bond 24 even when we knew Mendes was on board. But I guess EON were so desperate to keep Mendes happy that they put aside their differences. So I think the reuse of old tracks and general laziness of the SP score was just because of his bad experience working on SF, his heart probably wasn't in it after that.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 1,162
    Modern, unique and sexy: https://youtube.com/watch?v=k830wSv9lW8

    Moderd, unique and sexy: https://youtube.com/watch?v=l58lm8phdnk

    Vomit-inducing, grotesque remix: https://youtube.com/watch?v=W9XKEykVixE

    At least Arnold's scores were made for Bond movies and not for Woolworth elevators.
    I would say the fact alone that Arnold was recommended by the man himself John Barry speaks for itself.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    I really don't know what Newman was up to with SP. Having said that, given my opinion of the film it's just par for the course. To call it mediocre is to pay it an undeserved compliment.

    My theory is that him phoning it in so badly was sort of a middle finger to EON. Apparently they clashed badly during SF (I think it was about his refusing to use the Adele theme in the score, they had to fight him just to include that one use at the casino) to the point that @JamesPage was dropping hints that he wouldn't be back for Bond 24 even when we knew Mendes was on board. But I guess EON were so desperate to keep Mendes happy that they put aside their differences. So I think the reuse of old tracks and general laziness of the SP score was just because of his bad experience working on SF, he probably only returned in the first place as a favour to Mendes.
    That's very unfortunate if it's the case. I think they need to go back to the days of the composer working with the artist on the title track. That way they can infuse it with their melody and are more likely to utilize it in the score. This separation is likely a cause for some of the problems. I realize that the song artist provides a lot of publicity and free marketing, but ultimately I wish they'd prioritize the score.

    More post-production time would help the composer too, I suppose.
    Newman has his moments but I definitely prefer Arnold. Bond music should be strong memorable and melodic, with cool recurring motifs. Newman didn't seem to get that. Arnold did. Call it a pastiche if you like but at least he clearly respected and understood why Barry's scores were so good.
    I respect his loyalty and his effort but not his talent. He just doesn't have what it takes for me. It's like an amateur hitting all the right piano keys but bringing none of the magic. I can't explain it but it's just how I feel about his music on the whole (with some exceptions, most notably in CR/QoS).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Newman has his moments but I definitely prefer Arnold. Bond music should be strong memorable and melodic, with cool recurring motifs. Newman didn't seem to get that. Arnold did. Call it a pastiche if you like but at least he clearly respected and understood why Barry's scores were so good.
    bondjames wrote: »
    I really don't know what Newman was up to with SP. Having said that, given my opinion of the film it's just par for the course. To call it mediocre is to pay it an undeserved compliment.

    My theory is that him phoning it in so badly was sort of a middle finger to EON. Apparently they clashed badly during SF (I think it was about his refusing to use the Adele theme in the score, they had to fight him just to include that one use at the casino) to the point that @JamesPage was dropping hints that he wouldn't be back for Bond 24 even when we knew Mendes was on board. But I guess EON were so desperate to keep Mendes happy that they put aside their differences. So I think the reuse of old tracks and general laziness of the SP score was just because of his bad experience working on SF, his heart probably wasn't in it after that.

    I didn't hear of this before... Just goes to show that SP was one giant cluster-you-know-what... Producers letting one writer run with a script without supervision, until too late; hiring back writers who said they were done; the star of the picture battling it out with the ex-BFF director; the music-man drawing swords against the producers...

    Simplified of course, and yes, these things happen on films all the time. It just seems SP was swallowed down the rabbit-hole of negativity.

    It's no wonder at all DC decided to come back and finish properly...
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    Regarding Arnold, as a fellow user said some (many?) pages ago, he's a bit of a hack, but somehow, the sheer energy and enthusiasm that comes across in some of his work almost makes up for his lack of identity or inspiration. In particular, I'd say in the Brosnan era, he did some fine work in the action department, using the James Bond Theme in generally traditional, but nevertheless enjoyable and diverse ways, and adding his own little touches to it. His work on the theme songs TWINE, YKMN and Surrender, was very good as well, and his most inspired, and in the case of the latter two songs, it provided him with thematic foundations --different from the Bond theme-- on which to build the respective scores. Drifting away from such foundations, however, his scores could seem meandering, unfocused. The quieter scenes, either romantic or suspenseful, were more difficult for him than the action scenes; often, he didn't quite seem to get to the heart of them. In the Craig era, deprived from the more extravagant uses of the Bond theme, Arnold's scores took a dive, but even then, he continued to infuse the films with a certain vitality, especially in the action scenes. So, a hack, and lacking a truly personal identity, but not without skill.

    Thomas Newman has turned in some interesting work in the quieter pieces (New Digs, Jellyfish, Old Dog, New Tricks and A Reunion are some fine pieces by him), but his scores focus a bit too much on ambiance: they often have that quality that makes them sound less like film scores and more like sound design. They lack boldness and don't go for the jugular. In this respect he isn't necessarily much worse than David Arnold, but whereas Arnold turned in plenty of solid action music, Newman's is for the most part a great disappointment. Most of the time, not only does it sound disinterested, it sounds generic, the worst sin of all in a saga with remarkable musical heritage, that basically invented the genre of spy music. Sure, Newman gave us Los muertos vivos están, but that's nothing Arnold couldn't do, and he'd do more of it. In general, Arnold kept much more of the Bond atmosphere of yesteryear than Newman, so between them, I'll take Arnold any day.

    My opinion is that the Bond scores should generally maintain a strong emphasis on theme and melody. Not all films --and not all Bond films-- need to be scored that way (Kamen and Serra did well), but with 007, there's a musical history and an identity that I'd like to see honored and preserved, and apart from that, having a traditionally Bondian score today can be a way of differentiating a Bond film from its competition. The Craig era, with all its introspection, doesn't change the fact the Bond films are spectacle: they are larger than life entertainment, and as such, they should generally have scores to match, in which, to reuse a phrase, the music goes for the jugular!

    As an aside, I'd like to say John Barry's action scoring hasn't been matched since he left the series. As Lukas Kendall from FSM once said, rather than following the onscreen action too closely, Barry always scored the idea of action; he actually came up with action themes. Martin, Hamlisch and Conti followed this template, in my view. Arnold and Newman didn't.

    ---

    Pemberton's work is good, from the samples above, but I agree with @bondjames in that he can be slightly too repetitive (though that's not the worst sin, in my opinion). I need to check out what he comes up with in action scenes, though.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583

    TripAces wrote: »
    Agreed. Arnold is the second best composer the Bond series ever had.

    With no recognition, nominations, or awards to speak of? I doth protest.
    You judge somebody's work automatically by Academy and Golden Globe Awards?

    No. I judge it by quality. And Newman has everything that Arnold doesn't, including being one of the most sought after composers in the film industry. When you go down the line, in terms of Newman's projects compared to Arnold's, this isn't even close. You're allowed to like whomever you want, of course. AND I DO LIKE A LOT OF ARNOLD'S BOND SCORES. But if you think Arnold is in Newman's league, you're in the small minority with that opinion. He simply isn't. Other than Bond, what exactly has Arnold done over the past 12 years? Jack squat.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Oh my sides! :))
    Funny-Laughing-Gif-Picture.gif
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,583
    Murdock wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Newman's music isn't even suited for an elevator. Except one that is set to crash.
    That's harsh. And I really don't understand why there only seems to be two camps: the ones defending Newman and bashing Arnold, and the one defending Arnold and bashing Newman.

    Personally I would have preferred Arnold, but I have a hard time criticizing Newman, since there were some wonderful cues in both SF and SP.

    I was kidding of course, I'm a bit of a brat you see. ;)

    I've mentioned lots of times that there is a small handful of Newman tracks I actually enjoy but Most of what he's done doesn't do it for me and the recycled music from Skyfall just adds to that disappointment.

    That's not Newman's call. It's Mendes's.
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