No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    TripAces wrote: »
    That's not Newman's call. It's Mendes's.
    So be it. Newman should have done better.

  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    SP had one of the shortest post-production schedules in recent memory. Could it be possible that Newman just didn't have time to score the entire film with original music?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    jake24 wrote: »
    SP had one of the shortest post-production schedules in recent memory. Could it be possible that Newman just didn't have time to score the entire film with original music?

    I cant imagine the qos schedule was much longer and thats an incredible score
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    jake24 wrote: »
    SP had one of the shortest post-production schedules in recent memory. Could it be possible that Newman just didn't have time to score the entire film with original music?

    I cant imagine the qos schedule was much longer and thats an incredible score
    You're right about that.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think someone posted here that they used the SF score when editing SP and that Mendes and co felt it worked so well that they just recycled large chunks. Not Newman's decision but a collective decision to rehash a lot of SF.

    Newman is a massively underwhelming film composer IMO - both on Bond and elsewhere.

    I'd prefer to have Arnold back than have another Newman score. But EON need to raise their ambition/standards and try and find someone else who is able to match Barry's legacy.
  • Posts: 1,031
    jake24 wrote: »
    SP had one of the shortest post-production schedules in recent memory. Could it be possible that Newman just didn't have time to score the entire film with original music?

    Is the same true of DAD? The climax of the film recycles quite a bit from the TWINE score.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think someone posted here that they used the SF score when editing SP and that Mendes and co felt it worked so well that they just recycled large chunks. Not Newman's decision but a collective decision to rehash a lot of SF.

    Newman is a massively underwhelming film composer IMO - both on Bond and elsewhere.

    I'd prefer to have Arnold back than have another Newman score. But EON need to raise their ambition/standards and try and find someone else who is able to match Barry's legacy.

    I remember Danny Elfman once talked about the risks of using a temp score during editing. The director gets very attached to it. I can certainly imagine that was the case during post-production of Spectre
  • Posts: 1,031
    bondbat007 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think someone posted here that they used the SF score when editing SP and that Mendes and co felt it worked so well that they just recycled large chunks. Not Newman's decision but a collective decision to rehash a lot of SF.

    Newman is a massively underwhelming film composer IMO - both on Bond and elsewhere.

    I'd prefer to have Arnold back than have another Newman score. But EON need to raise their ambition/standards and try and find someone else who is able to match Barry's legacy.

    I remember Danny Elfman once talked about the risks of using a temp score during editing. The director gets very attached to it. I can certainly imagine that was the case during post-production of Spectre

    I think that's how John Barry got signed up for Out of Africa. The director used some of his scores as a temp track, liked it and thought I should hire John Barry to score the film.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 2,598
    I think that Arnold is overrated in the Bond fan community along with Colonel Sun. Newman's work on Skyfall and Spectre isn't fantastic but I prefer him to Arnold. I can listen to both of Newman's Bond soundtracks from start to finish but I just can't do this with Arnold. Arnold composes the odd great, isolated Bond track but overall his Bond scores are on the generic side and as I said I just can't listen to his scores from start to finish as I get too bored. He simply isn't in the same league as Newman. Newman is the superior composer. You can hear this. If Mendes isn't returning (I hope for a different director [I like Skyfall but Spectre is average at best]) then I won't be surprised at all if Arnold returns, knowing Eon...unless they've decided to turn over a new leaf and surprise many.

    Oh, QOS is the most superior of Arnold's Bond scores. He did show improvement for this film.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think someone posted here that they used the SF score when editing SP and that Mendes and co felt it worked so well that they just recycled large chunks. Not Newman's decision but a collective decision to rehash a lot of SF.

    Newman is a massively underwhelming film composer IMO - both on Bond and elsewhere.

    I'd prefer to have Arnold back than have another Newman score. But EON need to raise their ambition/standards and try and find someone else who is able to match Barry's legacy.

    Have you actually.....read some previous posts? I guess not @Getafix. Because I was doing some nice...or nicer suggestions than just David Arnold:
    Me neither @BondJames. Personally, I'd love to find a man, a composer, who knows how to compose and arrange unforgettable leitmotifs and melodies! Melodies that you can hum in your car. One that really can....bring atmosphere to a movie, that can do both heartfelt romance and riveting action sequences. One that actually deserves the comparison with John Barry.

    So what about this:

    "Gold" (2016), score by Daniel Pemberton (you'll love this @BondJames):


    "Mal De Pierres" (2016), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    "Steve Jobs" (2015), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    "The Man From U.N.C.L.E." (2015), score by Daniel Pemberton:


    I can't wait for Pemberton's score on Aaron Sorkin's upcoming film "Molly's Game" (spy, drama, biography)
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Solid but unspectacular.

    Anything would be preferable to more Newman.

  • Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    Solid but unspectacular.

    Anything would be preferable to more Newman.

    You can't have listened all these tracks within 7 mins :-). Anyway, post some of your ideas...
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    I enjoyed Newman's SF score immensely, but after SP I would class him as one of the worst Bond composers of all time. He lacks energy and originality - the two crucial elements for making a great JB score.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Much as I think Newman is unfairly maligned on these boards, Arnold is second only to John Barry. And the makers must think likewise or they wouldn't have used him for FIVE films.

    I'll be chuffed if Arnold does Bond 25.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I hope David Arnold will compose "Mission: Impossible" films, not James Bond. James Bond deserves even better than David Arnold.....a man by the way who isn't even active/productive anymore in Hollywood,
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    This thread is getting more depressing day by day.
  • Posts: 11,425
    This thread is getting more depressing day by day.
    True. It's dreary at the moment
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Regarding Arnold, as a fellow user said some (many?) pages ago, he's a bit of a hack, but somehow, the sheer energy and enthusiasm that comes across in some of his work almost makes up for his lack of identity or inspiration.
    His scores have energy, I'll say that much. Blunt instrument though. No finesse to my ears.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    The quieter scenes, either romantic or suspenseful, were more difficult for him than the action scenes; often, he didn't quite seem to get to the heart of them.
    Agreed, which is why I prefer Newman's efforts on the quieter scenes. His 'Severine' theme for example is wonderfully lush, atmospheric and romantic.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Thomas Newman has turned in some interesting work in the quieter pieces (New Digs, Jellyfish, Old Dog, New Tricks and A Reunion are some fine pieces by him), but his scores focus a bit too much on ambiance: they often have that quality that makes them sound less like film scores and more like sound design. They lack boldness and don't go for the jugular.
    I agree. His scores are terribly mellow.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    In general, Arnold kept much more of the Bond atmosphere of yesteryear than Newman, so between them, I'll take Arnold any day.
    I'd agree that Arnold kept the 'energy' of yesteryear, but I don't agree that he retained the 'atmosphere'. That is one of the things I find very lacking in his scores. A sense of mood setting. There are a few exceptions but not enough given the number of films he's scored.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    My opinion is that the Bond scores should generally maintain a strong emphasis on theme and melody. Not all films --and not all Bond films-- need to be scored that way (Kamen and Serra did well), but with 007, there's a musical history and an identity that I'd like to see honored and preserved, and apart from that, having a traditionally Bondian score today can be a way of differentiating a Bond film from its competition. The Craig era, with all its introspection, doesn't change the fact the Bond films are spectacle: they are larger than life entertainment, and as such, they should generally have scores to match, in which, to reuse a phrase, the music goes for the jugular!
    I agree on this front, but think it should also retain a certain deft orchestral sophistication and melody. A bit of precision and subtlety combined with the majestic grandiosity. That's what Barry was able to do so well.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    As an aside, I'd like to say John Barry's action scoring hasn't been matched since he left the series. As Lukas Kendall from FSM once said, rather than following the onscreen action too closely, Barry always scored the idea of action; he actually came up with action themes. Martin, Hamlisch and Conti followed this template, in my view. Arnold and Newman didn't.
    That's a really good way of putting it and your description reflects how I feel. There is indeed a thematic element to the action scoring in classic Bond films. That's why I so much prefer all the predecessor scores to anything Arnold came up with,
  • Posts: 463
    I think Arnold absolutely hit his stride with QOS. There isn't a track in either of Newman's efforts that comes close to some of my favorite tracks, "What's Keeping You Awake?", "I Never Left", "Time To Get Out".

    "Los Muertos Vivos Estan" was a great SP track and completely made the opening moment of the film. Wished there was more on the actual soundtrack like it.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    This thread is getting more depressing day by day.
    Yes, can we get back on topic?
  • Posts: 12,526
    We need some official factuals from Eon on Bond 25 to liven things up again on this thread. Alas that may be a while?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    bondbat007 wrote: »
    My question to the Arnold haters, when you listen to his TND or CR scores (which I consider his best), what do you want in those scores that you don't get?
    Freshness. The only thing Arnold can do is pastiche. As for the score of TND: it's a bad remix album. A grotesque joke.

    This post is a grotesque joke. Arnold not bland or generic enough for you? Or would you want a Bond score with no Bond theme or any of the elements that make a good Bond score at all? Arnold isn't a Pastiche, He updated the Bond sound for the 21st century.
    LOL. You seriously think Arnold is not bland any generic? As for the Bond theme, it definitely should NOT be used as often as Arnold used it.

    Arnold is the second best Composer since Barry. He even had John Barry's approval. His scores are anything but generic and bland. The Bond theme should be used more than it's currently been for the last for films as it's been basically non existent sans the damn end credits and that is a crime!

    This really rustles my jimmies to no end. I don't care who does the music, so long as the Bond theme is used. One of the most memorable themes, and EON now hardly use it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    According to @QuantumOrganization, an announcement's supposed to come any day (he said late August, early September)
  • Posts: 12,526
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    bondbat007 wrote: »
    My question to the Arnold haters, when you listen to his TND or CR scores (which I consider his best), what do you want in those scores that you don't get?
    Freshness. The only thing Arnold can do is pastiche. As for the score of TND: it's a bad remix album. A grotesque joke.

    This post is a grotesque joke. Arnold not bland or generic enough for you? Or would you want a Bond score with no Bond theme or any of the elements that make a good Bond score at all? Arnold isn't a Pastiche, He updated the Bond sound for the 21st century.
    LOL. You seriously think Arnold is not bland any generic? As for the Bond theme, it definitely should NOT be used as often as Arnold used it.

    Arnold is the second best Composer since Barry. He even had John Barry's approval. His scores are anything but generic and bland. The Bond theme should be used more than it's currently been for the last for films as it's been basically non existent sans the damn end credits and that is a crime!

    This really rustles my jimmies to no end. I don't care who does the music, so long as the Bond theme is used. One of the most memorable themes, and EON now hardly use it.

    I would dearly love to hear the 007 theme played once again.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 4,603
    It should be a no brainer and a win/win. For mainstrean movie fans, it just good music (it simply has not dated) and for us lot, a perfect way to say goodbye to DC. If they could save it for the final chase/finale....my God, we would be standing on our seats and cheering!!
  • Posts: 4,619
    a man by the way who isn't even active/productive anymore in Hollywood,
    Well said, @Gustav_Graves! If Arnold is such a great composer, why hasn't he worked on anything siginificant since QOS?

    As for the Dubrovnik rumours, either their mayor is a LIAR or the producers haven't learned much from the Spectre debacle. Location scouting before having a finished (or at least a NEAR finished screenplay) is an awful idea.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    a man by the way who isn't even active/productive anymore in Hollywood,
    Well said, @Gustav_Graves! If Arnold is such a great composer, why hasn't he worked on anything siginificant since QOS?

    As for the Dubrovnik rumours, either their mayor is a LIAR or the producers haven't learned much from the Spectre debacle. Location scouting before having a finished (or at least a NEAR finished screenplay) is an awful idea.

    They've always location scouted during development. That's part of the process with a movie like this. Plus, they will have a draft in play at this stage.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    bondbat007 wrote: »
    My question to the Arnold haters, when you listen to his TND or CR scores (which I consider his best), what do you want in those scores that you don't get?
    Freshness. The only thing Arnold can do is pastiche. As for the score of TND: it's a bad remix album. A grotesque joke.

    This post is a grotesque joke. Arnold not bland or generic enough for you? Or would you want a Bond score with no Bond theme or any of the elements that make a good Bond score at all? Arnold isn't a Pastiche, He updated the Bond sound for the 21st century.
    LOL. You seriously think Arnold is not bland any generic? As for the Bond theme, it definitely should NOT be used as often as Arnold used it.

    Arnold is the second best Composer since Barry. He even had John Barry's approval. His scores are anything but generic and bland. The Bond theme should be used more than it's currently been for the last for films as it's been basically non existent sans the damn end credits and that is a crime!

    This really rustles my jimmies to no end. I don't care who does the music, so long as the Bond theme is used. One of the most memorable themes, and EON now hardly use it.

    I would dearly love to hear the 007 theme played once again.

    I would settle for the Bond theme, but an action scene with the 007 theme majestically playing in the background is long overdue.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 4,619
    RC7 wrote: »
    They've always location scouted during development. That's part of the process with a movie like this. Plus, they will have a draft in play at this stage.
    Well, it's time to put an end to this stupid practice. And no, it's not always part of the process with a movie like this. Obviously, there is nothing wrong with tweaking the script if you can't find the locations you wanted, but starting location scouting before you have a scipt that feels finished and you are satisfied with (as happened when they were making Spectre) is just moronic.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2017 Posts: 23,883
    My only concern is they sort of give it away to competitors. Everyone knows about that spot now due to this, and it's a great location to use.
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