Bring the old comedic Bond back? Yay or nay?

24

Comments

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 1,596
    So damn funny. Never understood why people hated him. I lose it whenever he's on screen.

    Also @RC7 I agree that DC's Bond shouldn't be wisecracking all the time but I don't think actors who make wisecracks betray their lack of acting chops. I think Connery's a fine actor and he delivered all of the quips splendidly without losing credibility as an actor. Well said both of you though @bondjames
  • JW Pepper was funny in LALD because he was where he belonged and where he functioned most naturally: in the Louisiana bayou. He was totally out of place in TMWTGG -- that character would never ever have vacationed in Cambodia, he'd have gone to Disney World instead. He worked in his own context and didn't work when he was shoe-horned into a plot that didn't really want or need him.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited March 2015 Posts: 7,314
    bondjames wrote: »
    From my perspective as well, Moore & Connery were one off legends & giants, & one should not attempt to emulate them.

    Absolutely. You can argue that the one liners are no longer relevant in today's world (and I wouldn't disagree with you) but it all comes to down to delivery and no one could do it like Connery and Moore.
  • Posts: 1,596
    I don't think one liners are irrelevant. Certain films pull them off just fine. It's all about tone. What @RC7 has been saying (I think), and I'm obliged to agree, is that Craig's films don't have the appropriate tone for the cheesy one liners. Other modern action movies pull them off gloriously and I salute them. SKYFALL was a perfect combination of the classic Bond sensibilities and levity and "Craig Bond" seriousness. It was a step away from the Bourne series and a step towards 007. I also believe SKYFALL to be Craig's best performance as Bond (proving he can handle the right sort of comedy) and the most Fleming. Let's just hope SPECTRE delivers the promises made by SKYFALL's epilogue.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Nay.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    The one line that caught me off guard in SF and to this day I don't like is "Circle of Life". Was he referencing the Lion King there? Craig seemed almost embarrassed to deliver it, & that's what I noticed first and foremost.

    This imho is an example of the sort of 'tacked on witticism' that can potentially fall flat to some ears.

    Hopefully we see less of this, or at least some thing better thought out if they must resort to a one liner after a fight.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Kerim wrote: »
    Hell nay!

    Light comedy like in SF is OK. Let's not go back to the Moore Era.

    Make this The Post of the Year as far as I'm concerned!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't think one liners are irrelevant. Certain films pull them off just fine. It's all about tone. What @RC7 has been saying (I think), and I'm obliged to agree, is that Craig's films don't have the appropriate tone for the cheesy one liners. Other modern action movies pull them off gloriously and I salute them. SKYFALL was a perfect combination of the classic Bond sensibilities and levity and "Craig Bond" seriousness. It was a step away from the Bourne series and a step towards 007. I also believe SKYFALL to be Craig's best performance as Bond (proving he can handle the right sort of comedy) and the most Fleming. Let's just hope SPECTRE delivers the promises made by SKYFALL's epilogue.

    Yes, I think it's about tone, character and context. It has to feel like it's Daniel's Bond saying it. With Connery and Moore you absolutely believe the delivery because it's intrinsically tied to their persona. Dan is better when his lines aren't necessarily funny in and of themselves, but in the context of the scene (Connery and Moore were obviously decent at both). His delivery of 'open the door' in the tube scene in SF cracked me up, I buy that that's his sense of humour and persona. Absolute stone cold classic lines like, 'I'm afraid you've caught me with more than my hands up' and 'Speak now, or forever hold your piece' wouldn't work in the context of a DC Bond, I don't believe. They're too knowing. I think it gets tricky because people see 'one-liners', much like 'gadgets', as a trope of the movies, but as with the latter it's not always necessary in the context of the film and will ultimately feel consciously shoe-horned in. I feel similarly with Dalton. His line 'He got the boot' is similar (nowhere near as bad) to Dan's, 'I got in some deep water'. They feel like relics of a bygone era, a safety net (no pun), but it's lack of context leaves it feeling flat and completely unfunny. It's not what the Dalton Bond would say. I really hope SP uses Dan's talent for humour in an apt way and not in a cliched, nostalgic way.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Kerim wrote: »
    Hell nay!

    Light comedy like in SF is OK. Let's not go back to the Moore Era.

    Make this The Post of the Year as far as I'm concerned!

    Your post or the one you quoted? Or maybe this one?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    It's difficult to give a solid definition of 'old comedic Bond', isn't it? I mean, the comedy in the Bond films went from 'Wait till you get to my teeth' to J W Pepper, it includes stuff like Boris Grishenko, telling a tiger to 'sit!', a tarzan yell, Jaws and Dolly...
  • Posts: 1,596
    @RC7 Well said. I don't think nostalgia is a bad thing though. I think Mendes has the ability to update Bond for 2015 as well as understanding the classic elements (I'm not just talking gadgets and such, but a Bondian tone in general) that made the older films so fantastic.

    One of the main reasons I'm not a huge QOS fan is that, aside from Craig's solid performance, it rarely (if ever) feels like a Bond film. I think Mendes very much understands how to keep Bond relevant (delivering a film that feels very much of this day and age) while still keeping Bond BOND.

    Now I'm certainly off topic. Anyways - tl;dr - I agree with you. It's all about tone, character, and context. I think a few of Daniel's "one liners" have worked well ("Good luck with that" in the Komodo den landed nicely in my opinion) but only when they organically extend from the tone and the scene itself.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    No more jokes about "tips" or dropping soap in the shower please!!

    Or little fingers. *shudders*

    I don't want a return to the comedic side of Bond. I just want a return to an experienced Bond out in the field, with no trust issues, no hokey insights into Bonds past. It's time to cut the umbilical cord, and let Bond work in the field on his own. Or as Bond put it in DAD...

    "Maybe it's time you let me get on with my job."
  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Nay nay and thrice nay.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,270
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Kerim wrote: »
    Hell nay!

    Light comedy like in SF is OK. Let's not go back to the Moore Era.

    Make this The Post of the Year as far as I'm concerned!

    Your post or the one you quoted? Or maybe this one?

    The one I quoted of course. I never blow my own trumpet you know! ;)
  • Posts: 1,552
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Nay nay and thrice nay.
    Titter ye not!
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Bring back the comedic Bond? I'd vote "Yay!" if you'd allow me, please.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2015 Posts: 4,585
    There is a fine line between funny and stupid. Sometimes, given context, stupid can work. Unfortunately, too many moments in Moore's films tilted toward stupid and didn't work.
  • Posts: 1,596
    Or little fingers. *shudders*

    I don't want a return to the comedic side of Bond. I just want a return to an experienced Bond out in the field, with no trust issues, no hokey insights into Bonds past. It's time to cut the umbilical cord, and let Bond work in the field on his own. Or as Bond put it in DAD...

    "Maybe it's time you let me get on with my job."

    I wouldn't mind at all a return to some of the comedic side. But I definitely agree with you on every other sentence. Absolutely tired of the "hokey insights into Bond's past" and the trust issues etc. It's all so played out.

    Shame that it's pretty clear that SPECTRE will be following suit in that regard for the most part, but I'm holding my judgmental tongue until after the film is released. Hopefully it'll blow me away, but I'm keeping my expectations in check. Seems like more of the hokey insights are coming our way come November.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    TripAces wrote: »
    There is a fine line between funny and stupid. Unfortunately, too many moments in Moore's films tilted toward stupid.
    "I think you've err... made your point."
    1973eyebrow1.jpg
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,425
    The Moore films are what they are. I understand some people don't like the humour, but IMO it really suited his Bond. For many people that was a golden era. I happen to agree - the films weren't seeking critical acclaim - they were really just about pure entertainment.

    And to be honest, when you watch DAF, it's clear that this direction was not down to Moore alone. The series was already well done that road before he was even cast. Infact, LALD is probably more back to basics in terms of comedy than DAF.
  • Posts: 1,596
    While I'd call Connery's first four outings the "Golden Era" I can see what you're getting at. I think a lot of that boils down to Moore. If you really watch there's a LOT of changing going on during the Moore era. I think he kept the films steady and steadily entertaining during a period of shakiness at the administrative end.

    It absolutely suited his Bond and it's why I consider him to be one of the best to do it.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    I'd love some more Connery and Moore style comedy as long as it wasn't forced copycat. I think Craig does have elements like that when he is telling the tube operator to open the door. They have definitely set a comedic tone between new Q and Craig that is new and different, but still the comedy we are use to between the two.

    It is not the right time or place to go completely back to the camp of DAF, YOLT, MR, OP, etc. (though sometimes I wish it was!), but humor has always been an integral part of the Bond movies that always needs to be present.
  • Posts: 4,615
    "Not exactly Christmas" sums up the humour within Skyfall. Bond was a "grumpy old man" for much of the movie: dry sarcasm and World weariness was perfect for the tone of the film. You don't need cheesy puns or visual jokes to have humour.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2015 Posts: 8,395
    I think there is room for a few more gags in spectre. As long as it is tastefully done, I could see a bit of slackstick working well. Nothing too distracting. Maybe a crotch kick with a exaggerated reaction shot.
  • Posts: 1,552
    I think there is room for a few more gags in spectre. As long as it is tastefully done, I could see a bit of slackstick working well. Nothing too distracting. Maybe a crotch kick with a exaggerated reaction shot.
    Please no "Crotch shots"
    Best-simpsons-gifs-football-groin.gif
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 7,507
    Skyfall had just the right amount of humour for me. Although I know its considered sacrilege for some here to praise that film...

    Even Casino Royale and yes, there I said it, Quantum of Solace, had a nice balance of humour for me. It doesn't have to be a lot of it, if the few puns are good and fit the film as a whole.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited March 2015 Posts: 8,395
    JCRendle wrote: »
    I think there is room for a few more gags in spectre. As long as it is tastefully done, I could see a bit of slackstick working well. Nothing too distracting. Maybe a crotch kick with a exaggerated reaction shot.
    Please no "Crotch shots"
    Best-simpsons-gifs-football-groin.gif

    If you ever played GoldenEye on n64, when you kill some enemies they go bolt upright and hold onto their crotch when they die. Something like that could make a nice subtle reference were it used in SP.
  • Not exactly Christmas Jones, is it? Skyfall worked just fine for me... the couple who thought Bond was in a hurry to get home was a little too far over the top for some people, but then, some folks around here are a little excessive in their need to downgrade Skyfall if you ask me. I think Craig's Bond is pretty much ontrack as it is, let's not second guess ourselves by ladling on humor and Moore humor when things are going so well for the franchise as a whole.
  • Posts: 1,985
    When GL uttered, "This never happened to the other fellow," many objected to the breaking of the fourth wall. And yet the asides in Bond films are just that. They are often a wink at the audience without looking into the camera. I didn't mind them with Connery, because they were often so droll, but Moore always seemed to exhibit a self-consciousness when delivering those lines. But of course all is a matter of perspective and taste and here one is often speaking only to the choir.

    I do believe, however, different generations respond differently to humor. A few years ago here in the states, an uproar occurred when Conan O'Brien replaced Jay Leno on The Tonight Show and was then replaced by Leno. Older viewers tended to regard O'Brien as silly and sophomoric, whereas younger viewers thought Leno was old school and predictable.

    As a boomer, a lot of today's humor just doesn't work for me. Films such as The Interview or A Million Ways to Die in the West simply are not funny. Unending F-bombs and crude humor don't work for me--and I'm no prude.

    While marketers target a younger demographic, I suspect the Bond series is unique in that its original viewers from the sixties still make up a substantial part of today's audiences.

    I have no problem with the inclusion of more humor if it is organic. Does it arise naturally from the moment, or is it something that exists for no reason other than
    to call attention to itself?

    As for the DC series, there's actually a lot of humor in the films, but it is often subtle and low-key.

    Two of my favorite moments from CR are when he tells Vesper her fictional last name
    will be Broadchest, and then his pleasant surprise at the martini he has made up.
    No chewing the scenery here.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    CrabKey wrote: »
    ...........As a boomer, a lot of today's humor just doesn't work for me. Films such as The Interview or A Million Ways to Die in the West simply are not funny. Unending F-bombs and crude humor don't work for me--and I'm no prude.

    While marketers target a younger demographic, I suspect the Bond series is unique in that its original viewers from the sixties still make up a substantial part of today's audiences.

    I have no problem with the inclusion of more humor if it is organic. Does it arise naturally from the moment, or is it something that exists for no reason other than
    to call attention to itself?

    As for the DC series, there's actually a lot of humor in the films, but it is often subtle and low-key.

    Two of my favorite moments from CR are when he tells Vesper her fictional last name
    will be Broadchest, and then his pleasant surprise at the martini he has made up.
    No chewing the scenery here.


    Very well put sir. I couldn't agree more, and I'm not a boomer.

    At the end of the day, a lot of the humour that's foisted upon us these days is unsubtle - If it sells then it's an unfortunate statement on the intellectual standards of today's society.

    I really enjoy the understated, intelligent, sarcastic, biting contextual humour that we have been given to date in the Craig era, and I can't wait to hear more.

    As a related aside, I recently watched Easy A with the incredibly charismatic Emma Stone. That genre of film (teenage) is not my normal fare, but I was amazed by the mature humour in that movie, even though it catered to a younger demographic. Excellent movie and I highly recommend it.
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