I've never noticed that before...

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Minion wrote: »
    OHMSS is a masterpiece, but there are still things about it that I would change. For instance, I always disliked Monty Norman's Bond theme blaring at the end. I would replace it with an instrumental version of "We Have All the Time in the World" in a heartbeat.

    I despise how they played that over Tracy's death; one of the most jarring moments in Bond, and really odd tone wise.
    Minion wrote: »
    "He's branched off!"

    I'd also have limited the goofy humor, and kept it more dry as Fleming would've written it. It's strange that they kept so much from the novel, but still had strange humor that didn't quite work, and really never worked that well, outside of the early 60s and only with Connery.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My point is that classic films should be left alone, warts and all.

    The regular final cut of the films wouldn't go away, but I think other cuts would be interesting if they improved the feel and style and pacing more.

    If movies like Blade Runner can have two hundred different cuts, I'd say fans could experiment with the Bond films in a minor capacity, just to see how they feel.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    BLADE RUNNER is an odd one, in that the cutting was taken out of the director's hands. That first reedit is what I consider the real film. Could be semantics, but that's a special case.

    Sure, some of these fan edits may be amusing, but I do not consider it an improvement to tweak (ala STAR WARS) a classic, regardless of perceived flaws.

    In the case of Star Wars it wouldn't be adding things, it would be removing literally seconds of minor film that wouldn't change it to any degree that is worth mentioning in comparison to a director fundamentally changing the experience of the movie in big ways. It wouldn't be a Lucas move where EON would have people go back to add CGI to make the projection look real, or anything like that. Not addition, but subtraction.

    Anyway, not a big deal.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My point is that classic films should be left alone, warts and all.

    Spot on...couldn't agree more.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Minion wrote: »
    OHMSS is a masterpiece, but there are still things about it that I would change. For instance, I always disliked Monty Norman's Bond theme blaring at the end. I would replace it with an instrumental version of "We Have All the Time in the World" in a heartbeat.

    I despise how they played that over Tracy's death; one of the most jarring moments in Bond, and really odd tone wise.

    I know it has its detractors, but I love that choice and it makes perfect sense to me. The music basically grabs the viewer by the lapels and utterly shakes the sadness out of him. By deemphasizing that emotion, it immediately crystallizes the death of Bond's wife into a part of the Bond history and mythos, and tells us that no matter what, Bond the franchise and Bond the character will go on.
  • Posts: 1,917
    I don't mind the Bond theme at the end either. It doesn't lessen the impact of that death. That's what I took away the first time I saw it as just a small kid; I didn't recall the Bond theme at all, just the jarring feeling of all that action' and this is James Bond and the rug gets pulled out from under you.

    It would have felt weird to see "James Bond will return in 'Diamonds are Forever" to the somber music. It makes a statement with the Bond theme.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    Even more so, it's a confirmation that it's Bond's job that gets her killed, which touches on the topic Fleming himself touched so many times in the Bond movies: it may be a glamourous world, but it comes at a too high a price.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Also you cant end a Bond film with sad music like that,how depressing would that be for the cinema-going public.

    You have to end it with the Bond fanfare,showing he is down but not out.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think that was the reason the producers used it.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Definitely....
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Although according to my wife " There's no way that bullet could have hit her. Straight on given the angle of that car !" ....... wow ! I had no idea I was married to a ballistics expert !
    ;-)
  • Posts: 19,339
    Although according to my wife " There's no way that bullet could have hit her. Straight on given the angle of that car !" ....... wow ! I had no idea I was married to a ballistics expert !
    ;-)

    Don't piss her off matey,or she might stage an 'accident' that even Columbo or Sherlock Holmes couldn't solve !!

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,250
    or shoot you from Stuttgart und still make it look like a suicide.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    or shoot you from Stuttgart und still make it look like a suicide.

    Stop yelling in my ear, ja?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    I don't like that. "You can't end a Bond film on a sombre note." "You can't leave the audience sad." Fleming wasn't forced into one specific type of story, so the filmmakers shouldn't either.

    And you're right, that's exactly why the Bond theme was placed there. Because someone at EON didn't want the audience to feel too many emotions at the end of their Bond film. But I don't like saying that's the only choice they could have made, because that says to me, "There are real movies, and then there are Bond movies."

    I'm happy it works for you. I understand the choice they made, but like @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said, I find it jarring. It doesn't make me think, "Yeah, Bond is back, baby!" It makes me think, "What the heck? That doesn't fit at all!" It almost ruins what I consider the most beautiful, touching moment in the entire Bond canon.

    BTW, I feel the same way about the dubbed in quips they gave Lazenby. "He had a lot of guts!" "He's branched off!" They don't mesh organically with the film, and feel more like someone saw the first cut of OHMSS and said it wasn't funny enough.

    The Empire Strikes Back gets away with John Williams' Star Wars fanfare at the end because the film closes at a moment of hope. Our heroes were defeated, but we have a chance to recover and see that they have not only escaped the clutches of Vader but are prepared to begin their next plan of attack. Had the credit rolled with the happy Star Wars orchestra immediately after Han was encased an carbonite and Luke fell down the hole with his hand chopped off, stranded on a little fixture below Cloud City, then I would have been more than a little confused!

    I guess that's my point of view. OHMSS ends at the lowest point, before we see that Bond is down but not out. If we have to end on a positive note, the original plan of closing with the wedding and having the murder of Tracy be the PTS of the following film would have worked much better, but obviously that didn't happen.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The way I saw it, the Bond theme at the end was a promise for the next film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Minion wrote: »
    I don't like that. "You can't end a Bond film on a sombre note." "You can't leave the audience sad." Fleming wasn't forced into one specific type of story, so the filmmakers shouldn't either.

    And you're right, that's exactly why the Bond theme was placed there. Because someone at EON didn't want the audience to feel too many emotions at the end of their Bond film. But I don't like saying that's the only choice they could have made, because that says to me, "There are real movies, and then there are Bond movies."

    I'm happy it works for you. I understand the choice they made, but like @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 said, I find it jarring. It doesn't make me think, "Yeah, Bond is back, baby!" It makes me think, "What the heck? That doesn't fit at all!" It almost ruins what I consider the most beautiful, touching moment in the entire Bond canon.

    BTW, I feel the same way about the dubbed in quips they gave Lazenby. "He had a lot of guts!" "He's branched off!" They don't mesh organically with the film, and feel more like someone saw the first cut of OHMSS and said it wasn't funny enough.

    The Empire Strikes Back gets away with John Williams' Star Wars fanfare at the end because the film closes at a moment of hope. Our heroes were defeated, but we have a chance to recover and see that they have not only escaped the clutches of Vader but are prepared to begin their next plan of attack. Had the credit rolled with the happy Star Wars orchestra immediately after Han was encased an carbonite and Luke fell down the hole with his hand chopped off, stranded on a little fixured below Cloud City, then I would have been more than a little confused!

    I guess that's my point of view. OHMSS ends at the lowest point, before we see that Bond is down but not out. If we have to end on a positive note, the original plan of closing with the wedding and having the murder of Tracy be the PTS of the following film would have worked much better, but obviously that didn't happen.

    @Minion, and if EON wanted to be brave and experimental, they certainly could've with a movie that changed the Bond actor, had the sex crazed spy get hitched, and told the most tragic moment of his life in full color; OHMSS was and still is like no other Bond film ever, perhaps the odd one out of the pack.

    I agree and I don't see how playing quiet music over the titles (not even sombre music, mind) would've made people think, "Bond isn't sad, I'm boycotting the next picture!" I think it would've paid respect to Tracy and ended the film the right way. The image of that bullet hole, Bond's life and future happiness literally and figuratively shattered, clashes with such an obnoxious use of the theme that comes out of nowhere. The statement shouldn't be "Bond is back," (as he never left anyway) but Bond has been changed forever and no matter what, the day will shape his life forever afterward. A quiet ending would've been in recognition to that, with a slow tune of "We Have All the Time in the World" from Barry to tie off the whole theme of the movie: we think we have all the time in the world to live, until we don't. The sudden and ironical death of Tracy during that quiet instrumental is intensely tied to who Bond is as a man, and how Fleming's own original decided to live his life without worrying about prolonging it all in exchange for really living.

    I'd love to see a cut of OHMSS that kept the music going, and didn't feel the need to throw in the theme to kill the moment. As it is, it’s a bit like going to a funeral and forgetting to shut off your cell phone, a decision that makes you look like a right ass when you get a call just as a tender eulogy is being read to the dearly departed in the casket afar. Where’s the respect?
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    @Minion, and if EON wanted to be brave and experimental, they certainly could've with a movie that changed the Bond actor, had the sex crazed spy get hitched, and told the most tragic moment of his life in full color; OHMSS was and still is like no other Bond film ever, perhaps the odd one out of the pack.

    I agree and I don't see how playing quiet music over the titles (not even sombre music, mind) would've made people think, "Bond isn't sad, I'm boycotting the next picture!" I think it would've paid respect to Tracy and ended the film the right way. The image of that bullet hole, Bond's life and future happiness literally and figuratively shattered, clashes with such an obnoxious use of the theme that comes out of nowhere. The statement shouldn't be "Bond is back," (as he never left anyway) but Bond has been changed forever and no matter what, the day will shape his life forever afterward. A quiet ending would've been in recognition to that, with a slow tune of "We Have All the Time in the World" from Barry to tie off the whole theme of the movie: we think we have all the time in the world to live, until we don't. The sudden and ironical death of Tracy during that quiet instrumental is intensely tied to who Bond is as a man, and how Fleming's own original decided to live his life without worrying about prolonging it all in exchange for really living.

    I'd love to see a cut of OHMSS that kept the music going, and didn't feel the need to throw in the theme to kill the moment. As it is, it’s a bit like going to a funeral and forgetting to shut off your cell phone, a decision that makes you look like a right ass when you get a call just as a tender eulogy is being read to the dearly departed in the casket afar. Where’s the respect?
    I couldn't have said it any better myself. :)
  • Posts: 2,162
    Quantum of Solace ends arguably on a sombre note.

    Bond drops the necklace in the snow and walks off. Not exactly sunshine and giggles.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Mallory wrote: »
    Quantum of Solace ends arguably on a sombre note.

    Bond drops the necklace in the snow and walks off. Not exactly sunshine and giggles.

    I kind of see it more positively, in that he finally sees what Vesper did for him and is able to get closure on a part of his life that he thought would never be resolved, but your point that Bond endings can be different (and should be at times) is true. I don't care to see Bond snogging a girl at the end of every movie, as that's a bit boring, so variety is nice. Fleming himself knew this intensely, which is why for every Live & Let Die or Diamonds Are Forever where Bond is shacked up with a girl, there's a Casino Royale or Moonraker that leaves him in a quiet moment of human pain or disappointment.

    That's one things I appreciate about the Craig films, in that every ending is vastly different with a different mood (like the films themselves), whereas other Bond films fit the formulaic mold of Bond ending up with a girl in a shifting location. The first ends on a bitter and hurt note, but also a triumphant one, the second ends with forgiveness, quiet assurance and closure, the third with contemplation and resolve, and the fourth with the feeling of a new beginning and big change. I really like that, and it gives each of them an identity exclusive to the movie.
  • Posts: 1,917
    Although according to my wife " There's no way that bullet could have hit her. Straight on given the angle of that car !" ....... wow ! I had no idea I was married to a ballistics expert !
    ;-)
    Along these lines, something I've always wondered about in OHMSS: maybe this wasn't in the same manner as the DB5 since the film is taking a more realistic tone, but wouldn't the Aston Martin have at least had a bulletproof windshield and windows if not machine guns and oil slicks? Are we to believe it's his personal car?

    And if the end music kills the experience of the whole of OHMSS, wow, I just don't know what to think. It's a few second of music.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    The Bond theme at the end isn't exactly meant to signal that "Bond is back!" Perhaps this is an obvious thing to say, but given the tenor of some comments here, I'll play it safe and say it anyway: the theme is intended for the viewer to take a step back and realize that "Bond WILL be back"; in other words, that he WILL EVENTUALLY put himself together. A subtle but significant difference. In other words, the theme is not underlining the situation in which we leave Bond at the end of the film: after all, as the reflective rendition of We Have All the Time in the World suggests, it's clear Bond's life has been shaken to the core and he will have to live with his sorrow for a long time. The Bond theme is not representative of Bond's immediate mindset, but is instead talking to US, the viewers, and saying Bond will survive, because that who he is, a survivor. What it does is it takes Tracy's death and places it in a larger context, as if it was a single slide in a slideshow of Bond's entire life. It's saying "this is the world of James Bond, and this is his life. Both good and bad things happen in it." It's not the only possible way of scoring the scene and ending the film, but I think it's a valid and very effective one.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I always saw it that Bond was going to get his revenge in the next film. Pity that never happened.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    I always saw it that Bond was going to get his revenge in the next film. Pity that never happened.

    Technically it did, but the connection to OHMSS is thinly veiled, minorly referenced or implied instead of emphasized in major ways.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited August 2017 Posts: 1,165
    Murdock wrote: »
    I always saw it that Bond was going to get his revenge in the next film. Pity that never happened.

    Technically it did, but the connection to OHMSS is thinly veiled, minorly referenced or implied instead of emphasized in major ways.

    Stylistically designed so you could skip OHMSS all together. Such a shame it wasn't appreciated back in its day.
  • Posts: 19,339
    OHMSS ends in tragedy...QoS ends in closure...i'm fine with the Bond theme at the end of both.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    barryt007 wrote: »
    OHMSS ends in tragedy...QoS ends in closure...i'm fine with the Bond theme at the end of both.

    Well technically QoS ends with "Crawl, End Crawl," which is very quiet and not at all uplifting. More of a neutral sound to close it all off.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,785
    One thing about the Craig Bond films--at film's end I have to scramble to turn the volume down before Bond Theme kicks in. QUANTUM OF SOLACE included.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 19,339
    deleted.
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    OHMSS ends in tragedy...QoS ends in closure...i'm fine with the Bond theme at the end of both.

    Well technically QoS ends with "Crawl, End Crawl," which is very quiet and not at all uplifting. More of a neutral sound to close it all off.

    I don't study/listen to the individual tracks anymore but certainly both endings put the same result out there.

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