Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Venutius wrote: »
    Agreed. CraigBond's also ex-SBS, so he's used to decentralised command where he's using his own initiative to achieve objectives, not blindly following orders as directed from above. That's why I was glad they removed the bit in the SP script where M told Bond 'You go where I tell you. You sleep when I tell you. Eat when I tell you. Sh*t when I tell you', etc - because it didn't ring true at all: Mallory's ex-SAS and he wouldn't have that rigid regular army mentality either. There'll be occasional conflicts, but you don't micro-manage men of Bond's calibre - you give them the target and let them have at it.

    I’ll concede that Craig:Bond looks like he might have served in the SBS. But so can’t imagine that with his disregard for authority, that he was not only have made it into the SBS, but also be drafted into the 00 section.

    The sticking point for me, is that Bond, in CR is written as a younger person, and maybe not necessarily former SBS. Then to cast an actor nearing 40, to play this wet behind the ears, former SBS, rookie 00... it feels off.

    There can’t be such a thing as a wet-behind-the-ears 00: they’re the best of the best. He learns about having a relationship on the job in the film, but he knows the job.
    Anyway, we were talking about him and M, not his experience.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Oh, I dunno. SBS don't go in for much saluting of officers and by-the-book drilling like squaddies. Er, so I've heard. There'd be due deference, but the yes-sir, no-sir might be a bit less common. MI6 do work with the SBS, etc, on certain missions and even have a sort of intermediary section between special forces and full MI6, so I can see how CraigBond could've been recruited. Dunno how likely it'd be in 'real life', but it's plausible enough for a fictional world, I think.
    Isn't it understandable that a Bond from that background would bristle a bit when confronted with hidebound authority figures? This is why I liked them making Mallory ex-SAS - because he'd know that the way to get the best out of an asset like Bond wouldn't be to tell him how to do something and maintain oversight, but to point him at it and let him get on with it. The bit in SF where Tanner and Q think they've been busted by Mallory but are relieved when he urges them to ignore the rulebook and carry on rang true for that reason. And Mallory himself certainly ignored a big part of the rulebook in NTTD, eh!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Venutius wrote: »
    Oh, I dunno. SBS don't go in for much saluting of officers and by-the-book drilling like squaddies. Er, so I've heard. There'd be due deference, but the yes-sir, no-sir might be a bit less common. MI6 do work with the SBS, etc, on certain missions and even have a sort of intermediary section between special forces and full MI6, so I can see how CraigBond could've been recruited. Dunno how likely it'd be in 'real life', but it's plausible enough for a fictional world, I think.

    Yes, from memory I think he went to Defence Intelligence between the two in the fictional biography, but that works.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Good point, actually. I've not re-read that biography since 2012 or so, but that does ring a bell!
  • Posts: 2,161
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Regardless of what I’d like, they’re going to go young. They realize that they have not been attracting younger viewers, which for decades had been the foundation that would prop the franchise up through the lean times. They want a young Bond who will appeal to a young audience and will stay on for 10 plus years. I just hope they go for a relative unknown, hopefully no pretty boy. Roger and Pierce could pull it off in their ‘40s, but a younger Bond shouldn’t be so conventionally good looking.

    Just wait for them to cast Harry Styles and see this place explode. That would certainly bring in the kids >:)

    I don't even know who that is.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Regardless of what I’d like, they’re going to go young. They realize that they have not been attracting younger viewers, which for decades had been the foundation that would prop the franchise up through the lean times. They want a young Bond who will appeal to a young audience and will stay on for 10 plus years. I just hope they go for a relative unknown, hopefully no pretty boy. Roger and Pierce could pull it off in their ‘40s, but a younger Bond shouldn’t be so conventionally good looking.

    Just wait for them to cast Harry Styles and see this place explode. That would certainly bring in the kids >:)

    I don't even know who that is.

    He is one of the kids in Dunkirk, former boy band member.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think we’re more likely to see a brand new dynamic between Bond and M in the next film, rather than a repeat of what we’ve seen in past M’s.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I think we’re more likely to see a brand new dynamic between Bond and M in the next film, rather than a repeat of what we’ve seen in past M’s.

    Yes I hope so.
  • Posts: 1,630
    At this point there have been multiple actors portraying M. So...M&Ms, right ? (OK here's where I cross the line) Some with nuts, some without...
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    I hope with the new version of Bond, the high concept ideas don't feel as jarring as they did in the Craig era. The moment I saw the bionic eye it through me completely, and as much as I enjoy a lot of NTTD, I'm not on board with that at all. It just looks ridiculous and the idea of it seems out of place to me
    Hopefully the the next era, pick a direction and stick with it, if you go dark keep consistent.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,152
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Hopefully the the next era, pick a direction and stick with it, if you go dark keep consistent.

    Yes. I like SF/SP/NTTD for what they are, but I absolutely loved CR/QOS and still regret the soft reboot with SF and the reintroduction of lighter and dafter elements.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Venutius wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Hopefully the the next era, pick a direction and stick with it, if you go dark keep consistent.

    Yes. I like SF/SP/NTTD for what they are, but I absolutely loved CR/QOS and still regret the soft reboot with SF and the reintroduction of lighter and dafter elements.

    Same mate, I enjoy them don't get me wrong but I feel like the darker element in Casino and Quantum suited Daniel's run better. If they didn't go lighter than Skyfall I would been okay with it
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    I've been blaming Mendes since 2012. He brought bloat to the series.
  • Posts: 9,847
    Venutius wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Hopefully the the next era, pick a direction and stick with it, if you go dark keep consistent.

    Yes. I like SF/SP/NTTD for what they are, but I absolutely loved CR/QOS and still regret the soft reboot with SF and the reintroduction of lighter and dafter elements.

    I thought I was the only one...

    even the games felt better pre 2012 Bloodstone and Goldeneye specifically.

    I just wish the final three films with Craig were more Fleming based and darker in tone.. if we had to bring Moneypenny and Q back so be it but it should of been the same tone as Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace.


    Also a minor thing but Craig should of had nothing but Fleming titles for his films.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    echo wrote: »
    I've been blaming Mendes since 2012. He brought bloat to the series.

    I agree with you mate but I do love Skyfall admittedly. The only thing I'd change about that film is I wish there was more of a confrontation between Bond and Silva at the end, but the "last rat standing line" and old fashioned method of death was satisfying

    I hope Bond 26 has a more likeable villain like Silva, the best films are always when the villain is likeable as well as frightening
  • Jordo007 wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Hopefully the the next era, pick a direction and stick with it, if you go dark keep consistent.

    Yes. I like SF/SP/NTTD for what they are, but I absolutely loved CR/QOS and still regret the soft reboot with SF and the reintroduction of lighter and dafter elements.

    Same mate, I enjoy them don't get me wrong but I feel like the darker element in Casino and Quantum suited Daniel's run better. If they didn't go lighter than Skyfall I would been okay with it

    +1. I think they were trying to find safety in the comfort of nostalgia. Personally, I didn’t find it too jarring in NTTD but the attempts at the lighter touch didn’t work for me in the Mendes films.

    If they decide to go darker again I hope they have the confidence to commit to it without feeling some obligation to gradually reintroduce silliness. We’ve seen that tonal arc play out so many times and I think there are other ways to keep the franchise compelling if the filmmakers are bold/creative enough to do so.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2022 Posts: 8,188
    I think you people fooled yourselves if you truly thought Craig’s run was going to stick to the same tone of QOS. It was always going to gradually veer towards the cinematic Bond.

    Heck, even CR wasn’t as dark and dreary as QOS, as much as you all try claiming otherwise. In fact, it’s one of Craig’s lighter performances. It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I think you people fooled yourselves if you truly thought Craig’s run was going to stick to the same tone of QOS. It was always going to gradually veer towards the cinematic Bond.

    Heck, even CR wasn’t as dark and dreary as QOS, as much as you all try claiming otherwise. In fact, it’s one of Craig’s lighter performances. It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.

    It's no mistake to assume the first two films of a new era were paving the way for a similar tone throughout. I can't say I had definitive expectations at the time but it would've been fair to assume the sequels would have continued in a similar vein.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Next time, I want the silliest Bond film I can get. Something like Moonraker, which I love even though they never got to the moon in the film. Give me Moonraker 2, with triple-taking pigeons, confused dogs, M's desk being outfitted with wheels, rockets and machine guns, Bond laughing his butt off at the bad guy's silly god complex, a band of Mariachi assassins whose guitars fire poisonous darts, Bond recruiting a bunch of animals from the zoo to attack the bad guy's lair, and Felix Leiter (looking like Norman Burton) showing up out of nowhere at the end to tell Bond he "did it again", while Bond kisses Kate Beckinsale or Vanessa Kirby. Music by Bill Conti.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I think you people fooled yourselves if you truly thought Craig’s run was going to stick to the same tone of QOS. It was always going to gradually veer towards the cinematic Bond.

    Heck, even CR wasn’t as dark and dreary as QOS, as much as you all try claiming otherwise. In fact, it’s one of Craig’s lighter performances. It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.

    I'd agree that CR has more of the Bond tone than QoS does. CR feels quite like TLD to me: getting the balance right. QoS (and to some extent NTTD) have slightly lost touch with that Bond feel, for my money.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited February 2022 Posts: 8,188
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think you people fooled yourselves if you truly thought Craig’s run was going to stick to the same tone of QOS. It was always going to gradually veer towards the cinematic Bond.

    Heck, even CR wasn’t as dark and dreary as QOS, as much as you all try claiming otherwise. In fact, it’s one of Craig’s lighter performances. It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.

    It's no mistake to assume the first two films of a new era were paving the way for a similar tone throughout. I can't say I had definitive expectations at the time but it would've been fair to assume the sequels would have continued in a similar vein.

    CR did, but not QOS. They’re wildly different films. The former was a relatively stripped down Bond film, whereas QOS was a poor Bourne knock off that EON assumed audiences wanted more of. If QOS was more popular, it probably would have signaled the continuation of that style. When SF was being promoted, the filmmakers cited CR as the template which is why Alexander Witt and Stuart Baird were brought back. This is why I view QOS as being the odd duck of Craig’s run stylistically and tonally. CR, SF, SP, and NTTD have that more classical style. The only difference with the Mendes films is that he doesn’t put heavy emphasis on Craig having cuts on his face.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.

    So he should, though - he hasn't had a chance to work through any of the fallout from CR, he's mourning the love of his life and he's driven by rage. Haggis wrote it, and Craig played it, perfectly. Immediately after QOS, Dan did say that he wanted to reintroduce Moneypenny and Q, so that would've happened in some form but I think you're right and if QOS hadn't taken such a beatdown from the critics the next films would've been closer to it in tone than the ones we did get.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Venutius wrote: »
    It’s really in QOS that he acts more like a sourpuss.

    So he should, though - he hasn't had a chance to work through any of the fallout from CR, he's mourning the love of his life and he's driven by rage. Haggis wrote it, and Craig played it, perfectly. Immediately after QOS, Dan did say that he wanted to reintroduce Moneypenny and Q, so that would've happened in some form but I think you're right and if QOS hadn't taken such a beatdown from the critics the next films would've been closer to it in tone than the ones we did get.

    If only that would've happened.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    Mendes announces his intent to go over the top early on, with the digger cutting into the train car, Bond adjusting his cuff a la Brosnan, etc.

    Campbell did a better, dare I say more believable, grounded, character-based, job with the construction equipment at the beginning of CR.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 3,152
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If only that would've happened.

    Agreed, totally. If QOS set out to blaze a new trail, SF took a big step back towards the safety of the path.

  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Immediately Moneypenny & Q were introduced, Craig lost his loner James Bond persona. Sometimes I think Bond tracking down the escaped Silva without talking to Q, would have allowed Craig display Bondian intellect more. Same with the car chase in SP....it's only after Bond stopped taking to Moneypenny that the chase intensified and even the car gadget worked too.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,413
    Venutius wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If only that would've happened.

    Agreed, totally. If QOS set out to blaze a new trail, SF took a big step back towards the safety of the path.

    QoS wasn't all that great though. And then SF was and it made more money than any other British film up to that point.
    Folks are always say that Bond films should stick to the formula, then we talk about when it went back to it and folks are saying how they shouldn't have. I can't keep up sometimes :)
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    If only that would've happened.

    Agreed, totally. If QOS set out to blaze a new trail, SF took a big step back towards the safety of the path.

    QoS wasn't all that great though. And then SF was and it made more money than any other British film up to that point.
    Folks are always say that Bond films should stick to the formula, then we talk about when it went back to it and folks are saying how they shouldn't have. I can't keep up sometimes :)

    I think those are two separate groups, though: the people who enjoyed the stripped back nature of the first two films and those who are loathing the idea of Bond having a child/Bond dying/other major characters dying.

    I personally loved the approach in the beginning of the era and was never pining for the return of MP, Q, etc.

    Different strokes for different folks and everyone's different. There's not much to really "keep up" with when everyone has a unique view.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 16,413
    There's certainly a large chunk of Bond fan who have been vocal about the return of the formula. Just check out the 'where should Bond go next' thread.

    As you didn't want Q, 'Penny etc. back it just goes to prove one thing: no matter what they do someone will complain! :D
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