Where does Bond go after Craig?

1159160162164165680

Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2022 Posts: 16,383
    slide_99 wrote: »
    The point is that the reason why audiences were so willing to accept new actors in the role was because they didn't kill off the character. So, it's not the same. It's not even close. Bond 26 can't just be another Bond movie, because the movie before it also wasn't just another Bond movie.

    Totally. Before the Craig era, actors were playing the same character. Now they've decided to kill Bond off, the audience has to approach the next Bond movie with three choices.

    1) Accept it's a new character called James Bond.
    2) Accept it's the same character, but in a different universe/timeline/reboot blah blah.
    3) Not think about it too much and just think 'Bond is like Batman now'.

    And that's the situation with James Bond movies now. Great eh?

    2 & 3 are basically the same thing and how I’ve always approached the different Bonds, I don’t really see the problem.
    I don’t even massively consider the guy chucking Wint & Kidd off a cruise liner to be the same bloke who shot Prof Dent in the back- they look kind of similar but don’t act much the same and seem to live in different worlds. Continuity was never something I especially thought existed in Bond land.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 4,139
    Literally guys, I don't think the vast majority of non-fans are going to think about all this that deeply. Should the marketing present the next film in a certain way, viewers will go and see the new Bond film and generally accept it's just a new incarnation or timeline or whatever. No biggie, ideally they'll just make the best film they can.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    Well to me NTTD represents a high level of respect and love for the character and his origins. It presents timeless elements of duty and sacrifice, things that were always there and can be sourced to Ian Fleming's background.

    And by starting the Craig era before he was a double-oh, and ending it five years after he was a double-oh, there shouldn't be an expectation Bond will be back in either of those timestamps.

    He'll surely be presented in BOND 26 as 007 receiving and executing a mission.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    007HallY wrote: »
    Literally guys, I don't think the vast majority of non-fans are going to think about all this that deeply. Should the marketing present the next film in a certain way, viewers will go and see the new Bond film and generally accept it's just a new incarnation or timeline or whatever. No biggie, ideally they'll just make the best film they can.

    Exactly. Some folks here are just overthinking how audiences will perceive Bond 26 in relation to NTTD. This doesn’t even take into account audiences who’s first Bond film may actually be Bond 26. Just like there were audiences who’s first exposure to Bond was LALD, TLD, GE, or even CR.

    Heck, I’m willing to bet most audiences actually think each new actor introduced is in itself reboots because that’s mostly how it’s been done on other movie franchises.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    007HallY wrote: »
    Literally guys, I don't think the vast majority of non-fans are going to think about all this that deeply. Should the marketing present the next film in a certain way, viewers will go and see the new Bond film and generally accept it's just a new incarnation or timeline or whatever. No biggie, ideally they'll just make the best film they can.

    They made a gravestone for James Bond.

    https://nerdist.com/article/james-bond-gravestone-james-bond-no-time-to-die-faroe-islands/

    I think a lot of people are going to be genuinely confused by Bond 26 because most audiences don't know that there are different Bond continuities. Bond has been produced by the same company for 60 years. Same theme, same type of opening titles, and constant references to previous eras. It's not like Batman.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2022 Posts: 8,183
    slide_99 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Literally guys, I don't think the vast majority of non-fans are going to think about all this that deeply. Should the marketing present the next film in a certain way, viewers will go and see the new Bond film and generally accept it's just a new incarnation or timeline or whatever. No biggie, ideally they'll just make the best film they can.

    They made a gravestone for James Bond.

    https://nerdist.com/article/james-bond-gravestone-james-bond-no-time-to-die-faroe-islands/

    I think a lot of people are going to be genuinely confused by Bond 26 because most audiences don't know that there are different Bond continuities. Bond has been produced by the same company for 60 years. Same theme, same type of opening titles, and constant references to previous eras. It's not like Batman.

    Only a few people who can’t grasp fiction will be confused. You’re overestimating how stupid audiences are.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,208
    This is what the next incarnation of Bond needs, Ma plan. As much as I liked the Craig era, too often it seemed aimlessly wandering.

    https://screenrant.com/lotr-show-rings-power-seasons-plan-future-details/
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 1,078
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I would be more willing to accept NTTD if it actually was the last James Bond movie, but since it isn't, I see no point to it whatsoever. It has no meaning. Craig's version of Bond died but Bond is still alive? It makes no sense.

    This has been my argument all along. How can any emotional weight be attached to Bond's demise, when ten minutes later, we're told 'he'll be back!'
    It simply doesn't work. But the only argument I've seen on here for it being acceptable is "it works for Batman/Superman/Captain Chaos etc, so therefore it works for Bond".
    Well to me NTTD represents a high level of respect and love for the character and his origins.

    I didn't think killing him off showed much respect and love. I thought quite the opposite.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I would be more willing to accept NTTD if it actually was the last James Bond movie, but since it isn't, I see no point to it whatsoever. It has no meaning. Craig's version of Bond died but Bond is still alive? It makes no sense.

    This has been my argument all along. How can any emotional weight be attached to Bond's demise, when ten minutes later, we're told 'he'll be back!'
    It simply doesn't work.

    In your opinion.
    But the only argument I've seen on here for it being acceptable is "it works for Batman/Superman/Captain Chaos etc, so therefore it works for Bond".

    It will.
  • Posts: 1,078
    In your opinion.

    Well, erm, obviously. Seeing as I wrote it and it's what I think.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 4,139
    slide_99 wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Literally guys, I don't think the vast majority of non-fans are going to think about all this that deeply. Should the marketing present the next film in a certain way, viewers will go and see the new Bond film and generally accept it's just a new incarnation or timeline or whatever. No biggie, ideally they'll just make the best film they can.

    They made a gravestone for James Bond.

    https://nerdist.com/article/james-bond-gravestone-james-bond-no-time-to-die-faroe-islands/

    I think a lot of people are going to be genuinely confused by Bond 26 because most audiences don't know that there are different Bond continuities. Bond has been produced by the same company for 60 years. Same theme, same type of opening titles, and constant references to previous eras. It's not like Batman.

    Looks like a fun little tourist attraction to me. It even says in the article it's more a thing for Bond fans...

    Again, I think once the marketing for the new film rolls around and they make the concept clear viewers will get it, especially given how these other big franchise films have rebooted themselves nowadays. Most non-fans don't know/care it's been associated with the same company for 60 years, the Bond theme is iconic although subject to different variations within trailers so it won't matter, and the references to the previous era were seen in Craig's tenure and viewers seemed to grasp the whole reboot thing with CR... again, based on the marketing and the actual film. Hell, most people rolled with X-Men and its many prequels/sequels/timelines within the same 'universe' - same company, same actors, same music etc - not to mention the many different reboots of Spiderman and this Multiverse thing in the new film (which was highly successful incidentally). Nah, I think it'll be fine. There are far more pressing issues to worry about for Bond 26.
  • In your opinion.

    Well, erm, obviously. Seeing as I wrote it and it's what I think.

    You just Christopher Hitchens’d him.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    In your opinion.

    Well, erm, obviously. Seeing as I wrote it and it's what I think.

    Fair enough. We’ll see how that opinion holds up.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,790
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I would be more willing to accept NTTD if it actually was the last James Bond movie, but since it isn't, I see no point to it whatsoever. It has no meaning. Craig's version of Bond died but Bond is still alive? It makes no sense.

    This has been my argument all along. How can any emotional weight be attached to Bond's demise, when ten minutes later, we're told 'he'll be back!'
    It simply doesn't work. But the only argument I've seen on here for it being acceptable is "it works for Batman/Superman/Captain Chaos etc, so therefore it works for Bond".
    Well to me NTTD represents a high level of respect and love for the character and his origins.

    I didn't think killing him off showed much respect and love. I thought quite the opposite.

    Yes we have our own backgrounds and tastes and experiences and reasons for thinking the way we do.

  • Posts: 1,630
    It's the same character.

    So how did he survive the explosion and get off the island then?

    People are STILL discussing this ? Did you really think Brosnan's Bond had done the DN mission ? That Dalton's Bond had done the DN mission ? No to both. They were "soft
    re-boots" Even Moore's Bond barely could hold that tenuous timeline after a while !
  • Posts: 1,630
    mattjoes wrote: »
    M: Bond... I don't want any more trouble like you had last year in Isthmus. You understand? That's my policy.

    Bond: Yeah, well, when a drug lord maims my friend and kills his wife, I set the bastard on fire - that's my policy.

    I couldn’t help but hear Leslie Nielsen’s voice.

    Well if we're going all Leslie Nielsen on it, here's a re-writing of the dialogue:

    M Bond ! Surely you understand the importance of following my orders at least SOME of the time !??

    Bond Of course, I do, but don't call me Shirley.
  • Posts: 727
    I found a solution. Bond’s daughter grows up and bears a child of her own. A male with the name of James Bond as a tribute to his late gramps. He goes into the same profession as James Bond the first did. Of course, the movies would have to be set in the future.
  • Posts: 230
    I really think we're overthinking this, Bond isn't a nerdy superhero franchise with a "continuity" it's about the individual films. If you make the new film with a new actor and don't reference the Craig films at all 99.9% of the audience is going to be fine with it. The focus should be on making a good movie that stands on its own, not on retconning a bunch of Craig stuff.

    And to be honest I've always viewed Dalton and Broz as essentially "soft reboots" anyway with the tone being so different. Hard to imagine LTK and Moonraker existing in the same universe for example.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I would be more willing to accept NTTD if it actually was the last James Bond movie, but since it isn't, I see no point to it whatsoever. It has no meaning. Craig's version of Bond died but Bond is still alive? It makes no sense.

    This has been my argument all along. How can any emotional weight be attached to Bond's demise, when ten minutes later, we're told 'he'll be back!'
    It simply doesn't work. But the only argument I've seen on here for it being acceptable is "it works for Batman/Superman/Captain Chaos etc, so therefore it works for Bond".

    I think it works just fine. The papers are always discussing who the next Bond will be, and yet I haven’t seen anyone losing their mind about how there can be another Bond: most people understand that it’s fiction.
    It’s not like most people even waited to see the end of the credits anyway.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,183
    The only people that seem confused at the prospect of a new Bond being cast despite dying in NTTD are Adamski and the other guy who hasn’t even bothered to watch NTTD.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 3,327
    Since62 wrote: »
    It's the same character.

    So how did he survive the explosion and get off the island then?

    People are STILL discussing this ? Did you really think Brosnan's Bond had done the DN mission ? That Dalton's Bond had done the DN mission ? No to both. They were "soft
    re-boots" Even Moore's Bond barely could hold that tenuous timeline after a while !

    Yet the same M, Q and Moneypenny throughout most of those films, or if M changed there was an acknowledged reference to it.

    They also still managed to make references to Tracey and OHMSS though, in both FYEO and LTK, which existed in different Bond actor timelines. Brozza still interacts with the very same Q that Connery did in 1963.

    So I think we were expected to believe this was one long continuation timeline (even if Bond would be about age 100 by the time he was in DAD.)

    And I recall a reference to Tracey in one of the Brozza films too (or did I dream that)? Someone correct me here.
  • edited June 2022 Posts: 1,078
    The only people that seem confused at the prospect of a new Bond being cast despite dying in NTTD are Adamski and the other guy who hasn’t even bothered to watch NTTD.

    I'm not confused, I just think it's daft to ask the audience to care that Bond is dead, when there'll be another Bond along soon enough.
    It's like Bobby in the shower. I understood what they were doing, it didn't confuse me. But I still thought it was daft.
    You can still think something is silly, and understand it.
    So I think we were expected to believe this was one long continuation timeline (even if Bond would be about age 100 by the time he was in DAD.)
    And I recall a reference to Tracey in one of the Brozza films too (or did I dream that)? Someone correct me here.

    It was always the same person, that was one of the cool things about the Bond films. Despite the bonkers continuity, Brosnan's Bond was at Crab Key. If people wanted to see 'soft re-boots', they could do that if they wanted, but the actors playing James Bond all played the same character.
    I think there was an oblique reference to Tracy in TWINE, didn't Elektra say "have you ever lost someone you love?" and Brozza doesn't answer? You could take it either way.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    They are adaptations, or at least started as such. It really doesn’t matter… audiences will be fine with another Bond that noticeably isn’t dead. Same way we can watch different Batmans and different Jane Eyres.
    Or, to go closer to home somewhat, have Alec Baldwin, Harrison Ford, Ben Affleck and Chris Pine all played the ‘same man’ or simply ‘the same character’?
    It’s ok to explicitly recognise that the character in Dr.No and the character in GoldenEye are the same character, without having to accept the frankly daft idea of them being ‘the same man’ as some kind of gospel. It’s ok. Really.
    It’s fun for them to be in the same film series, to reference the fact that this one little studio has been doing them forever, without having to make it all contiguous.

    What this does do, is allow them to go back and re-adapt the novels all over again in they choose — though I suspect they won’t.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    Since62 wrote: »
    It's the same character.

    So how did he survive the explosion and get off the island then?

    People are STILL discussing this ? Did you really think Brosnan's Bond had done the DN mission ? That Dalton's Bond had done the DN mission ? No to both. They were "soft
    re-boots" Even Moore's Bond barely could hold that tenuous timeline after a while !

    Yet the same M, Q and Moneypenny throughout most of those films, or if M changed there was an acknowledged reference to it.

    They also still managed to make references to Tracey and OHMSS though, in both FYEO and LTK, which existed in different Bond actor timelines. Brozza still interacts with the very same Q that Connery did in 1963.

    So I think we were expected to believe this was one long continuation timeline (even if Bond would be about age 100 by the time he was in DAD.)

    And I recall a reference to Tracey in one of the Brozza films too (or did I dream that)? Someone correct me here.
    IIRC Elektra asks if Bond was ever married and he either doesn't reply or changes the subject.

    Edit: I think it was the 'someone you loved' one rather than a reference that explicit.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,383
    The only people that seem confused at the prospect of a new Bond being cast despite dying in NTTD are Adamski and the other guy who hasn’t even bothered to watch NTTD.

    I'm not confused, I just think it's daft to ask the audience to care that Bond is dead, when there'll be another Bond along soon enough.

    That's in another film though; each film (and I mean any film, not just Bonds) is its own separate world to some extent- you don't fail to laugh at a comedy film because you think the sequel in a few years might have a tragedy in it, and you still feel sad that Tracy dies at the OHMSS even though we knew Bond would likely get over it in the next film.
    When you're watching it you're in the moment, you're not thinking 'hmm I wonder if they'll mention this in three years time in a completely different film'. If you are then you're not really engaging with the movie in front of you.
    It was always the same person, that was one of the cool things about the Bond films. Despite the bonkers continuity, Brosnan's Bond was at Crab Key. If people wanted to see 'soft re-boots', they could do that if they wanted, but the actors playing James Bond all played the same character.

    Honestly I never really saw it that he'd had the same adventures as we saw them, that would be silly. But I also didn't think that he hadn't; I just never thought about it because it's not important. The films don't care, unless it's something they actually want you to remember. So Tracy existed, but Bond never looks at Drax's or Stromberg's plans and says "hmm, this reminds me very strongly of what Blofeld was doing with those rockets in Japan that time". It's a pick and choose continuity.
    I think there was an oblique reference to Tracy in TWINE, didn't Elektra say "have you ever lost someone you love?" and Brozza doesn't answer? You could take it either way.

    Yeah I always took it to mean Tracy, but then I saw someone suggest it could refer to Paris, which hadn't occurred to me and makes a fair point.
  • Posts: 16,162
    I tend to think of all the Bonds as the same character having all battled the likes of Doctor No, Goldfinger, Zorin etc.
    I don't even dwell too much on the whole different timeline perspective.
    I think of the Craig era as a loose reimagining of the character. It's just a different interpretation.

    I don't believe Eon really needs to stress too much on how to approach B26 and the next era. Just make a great Bond film with memorable characters, a good cast and an excellent production team. It will all fall into place.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited June 2022 Posts: 554
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I always took it to mean Tracy, but then I saw someone suggest it could refer to Paris, which hadn't occurred to me and makes a fair point.
    I think they would've at least considered the Tracy idea while writing that line considering all the other OHMSS inspired elements of the film, right down to the title. But still a reasonable inference.

    Honestly, even the Craig films operate on the old floating timeline in a more limited way - Skyfall implies there was a prior Q and it clearly wants you to think of Goldfinger when Bond introduces the DB5, regardless of the fanwank you can do to make the scene fit with just CR-QoS.
  • Posts: 4,139
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I always took it to mean Tracy, but then I saw someone suggest it could refer to Paris, which hadn't occurred to me and makes a fair point.
    I think they would've at least considered the Tracy idea while writing that line considering all the other OHMSS inspired elements of the film, right down to the title. But still a reasonable inference.

    It's a far more open ended line than fans sometimes think. The fact is if you were only a casual viewer you wouldn't think twice about it and presume that yes, Bond has lost many people he has loved in the past... in the previous film, in fact... I mean, it's kinda a big part of his character.

    TSWLM has a far more specific reference to Tracy's death, but this was relatively shortly after OHMSS came out and the time frame made it reasonable to presume that there was still a semblance of straightforward continuity (y'know, if you ignore the fact that Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond in OHMSS...)

    All this talk of timelines, continuities... it's really boring when it comes to Bond films. Think about it too much and you get nonsense like this:

  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 554
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I always took it to mean Tracy, but then I saw someone suggest it could refer to Paris, which hadn't occurred to me and makes a fair point.
    I think they would've at least considered the Tracy idea while writing that line considering all the other OHMSS inspired elements of the film, right down to the title. But still a reasonable inference.

    It's a far more open ended line than fans sometimes think. The fact is if you were only a casual viewer you wouldn't think twice about it and presume that yes, Bond has lost many people he has loved in the past... in the previous film, in fact... I mean, it's kinda a big part of his character.

    TSWLM has a far more specific reference to Tracy's death, but this was relatively shortly after OHMSS came out and the time frame made it reasonable to presume that there was still a semblance of straightforward continuity (y'know, if you ignore the fact that Blofeld doesn't recognise Bond in OHMSS...)

    All this talk of timelines, continuities... it's really boring when it comes to Bond films. Think about it too much and you get nonsense like this:

    This is a Bond fan forum. Where would be if we didn't think too much about things that don't really matter ;)
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited June 2022 Posts: 8,208
    Moved to actors discussion…
Sign In or Register to comment.