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This is a very interesting question. I've read that Eon are "re-imagining" Bond. I wonder how. I don't want them to return to the tongue in cheek/Roger Moore era. In the past when they've always been unsure as to where they should go, they go "back to basics" and look at the Fleming character. If they're keeping it contemporary they should make a movie of him as a Commander in the Navy in a recent war and towards the end of the film he joins the Secret Service.
I've been saying that for years, maybe in flashback. The problem is, as you say, it would have to be contemporary, and for me only WWII feels like a Bond war. If we can't bring the imagery and romanticism of serving in that particular war (Fleming's war, a very British war), in the end I'd rather not go there. I don't want to see Commando Bond in Africa or Afghanistan or South America.
It sounds as though you would like to see the next (few, at least) films made "in period." I suppose many things can be reconsidered, but when I proposed some time ago that they "go period" for the next few, someone noted that the producers have been asked about such an approach and - forgive, please, the expression - shot it down.
But here's my take.....
30's bond girl for a 30 years old something Bond (a young bond girl for a young bond actor)
But as the bond actor gets older, the Bond Girls should age too, becoming more matured yes like Monica Bellucci, if the Bond actor's in his 50's.
The ages of Bond Girls should not left behind as the Bond actor gets older.
Of course if the same mistake happened, we would get another Moore/Tanya Roberts or Craig/Seydoux again, and I don't want that to happen again.
A bond girl whose young enough to be the Bond actor's daughter.
I can see Bond hooking up with more mature women, but much younger definitely isn’t classy.
What role she's auditioning back then?
Yes, make it a period piece, then. This would definitely define "re-imagining". For the life of me I can't think of what Eon means by "re-imagining" if they even know themselves. They can still have two or three (I don't like too much action) magnificent action set pieces but the only difference would be that they involve older props. I honestly think that people would go for it. Think how cool it would be shooting a breathtaking car chase but with awesome classic cars. It'd be so refreshing too to see a Bond film without digital phones and with old fashioned spy work. Vintage is cool. I bet they still wouldn't have him smoke though. LOL.
Octopussy.
Ironically, he ended up hiring 38 year old Maud Adams instead.
Yes I’d like that too: it’s a shame that the loves of CraigBond’s life both happened to be around 15 years younger than him. An older one would feel a bit classier.
I think the reason for this is because Swan is depicted as a rather world weary character (some would say cold, at least in parts of the film). There's a difference between her and, say, Stacy Sutton, who should be more of a toughness to her considering her backstory, and yet by the end of AVTAK she's essentially the 'blonde screaming bimbo' that we associate that character with.
Personally, I don't mind a Bond girl being younger than Bond - it was certainly the norm in the novels - but it can only work insofar as Bond and the Bond girl are on some sort of equal footing. That's not to say that she should be Bond's 'equal' or that Bond should not save her. In SP one gets the sense that Swan and Bond share similar types of trauma in their pasts, and indeed it turns out both have personal connections to SPECTRE. Again, Swan comes across as world weary, resourceful, seems capable of handling a gun etc.
Put simply, the more child-like you make a Bond girl, the more that age difference is going to stand out and be awkward. I think this was the fundamental problem with some of the Moore films (I personally never noticed the age difference as much between Melina and Bond in FYEO, or between him and Octopussy - both of whom were resourceful characters with believable goals and backstories - and yet the scenes between Bibi and Stacy in AVTAK stick out).
That said, the next Bond is likely to be younger, and I'd like to see a slightly older Bond girl with some more life experience in the next one simply because it could play well narratively. But the same idea applies, even in reverse. If Bond is depicted as a more inexperienced rookie that age difference is going to stand out and might come off as comical. So again, Bond and the Bond girl need to be on some form of equal footing.
In an alternate universe, there is a much better version of SP where Lucia kills Franz and we realize that she is Blofeld.
But that could be interesting for a younger Bond. There are some outrageously attractive mature actresses. Have you seen 57 year old Elizabeth Hurley ? Wow.
But the world is different today, the novels were written in a different time period.
Let's leave it to the novels, the films became larger than those too, it needs to move forward, sticking too much to the novels would not make the franchise progressive, mate ;)
But agreed with some of your points :)
Yeah I'm absolutely open to it, as I said above.
I also think it's a bit weird we haven't had a female villain for 20 years. It'd make a nice change of dynamic.
It's an issue of how the film frames Bond. I agree though, Bond is generally speaking a professional agent if he's 007, but if the film plays up his inexperience in certain ways it might not works as well.
Regardless, I'm a fan of an older Bond girl, providing they're well written. It's not really a dynamic we've seen much before in these stories.
Personally, I think the writer's attempts to inject these types of 'twists' into the modern Bond films has become a bit worn out recently. It rarely ever works: Bond and Blofeld knowing each other as children, Blofeld's scheme to trick Bond into thinking Madeline betrayed him... even before that we had TWINE with Elektra being the villain, as well as in DAD with Miranda Frost being revealed as one. I'm mixed on how it was done in TWINE, but it made absolutely no sense in DAD.
I do think that if we get a female Bond villain in the future they should ideally be played straight. So no 'shock twists', no sleeping with Bond and then double crossing him, just have a villain who's a woman that has a specific dynamic/antagonism with Bond and can stand as a villain in her own right.
Some of Fleming's Bond girls fall into those same traps as much as the films I mentioned do. I'd argue they work better when they are more world weary, resourceful and have some sort of deeper similarity with Bond - Tiffany Case, Honey Rider, Tracy etc. A character like Vesper never worked in the novel for me because she's too one dimensional and naive to convincingly be 'the love of Bond's life'. Honestly, whenever I read the novel I have to go into it with the idea that Bond is younger in this story and this is the first time he's ever really fallen for someone, and much of it is due to his new found cynicism towards his profession by the end/wanting to settle down. I doubt he would have fallen for her in the same way in later novels.
Regardless, I don't think having a Bond girl a decade or so younger or indeed older than Bond is an issue of being 'progressive' or not. So long as they're written with the general ideas I pointed out. There are things in the novels that simply won't fly today and would actually be (inadvertently or not) making the film 'political' if included - Bond being implied to have 'turned' a lesbian straight as in GF being the major example (I know there's a case that Galore is actually bisexual or that it's due to the trauma of being molested by her uncle, which is still pretty ropey, but still...)
For instance you'd be forgiven for Rosamund Pike's first film was Die Another Day, she played it like a seasoned actor and carried herself as if she was mid 30's rather than 22-23.
You should only notice the age gap if it's done intentionally
Oh man, Rosamund Pike as Vesper or Madeline, that would have made a difference. Imagine her doing the train scene in CR: she actually would have sparkled where Green deflated.
Maud Adams was MUCH more appropriate for OP ! More exotic. I could see Cybil S, however, quite well as the scientist - whom Lois Chiles portrayed - in MR. In fact, Ms. Shepherd have been good for a more mature, collected, focused and deliberate Stacy Sutton in AVTAK.
Agreed about Rosamund Pike, she really fits the Vesper Lynd role, British, mysterious and knows how to mask herself to cover her agendas, and also calculating and knows how to manipulate people.
Miranda Frost was almost a proto Vesper Lynd.
Disagreed about Vesper, she worked in the novel for me, both she and Bond are torn between love and their duty.
Vesper enjoys luxury, she smokes like Bond, loner and calculating, she also knows how to use people to help her throughout just like Bond, they're socially the same.
She's the female version of Bond.
In the film, not so much, this aspect wasn't shown in the film, it's all about Vesper criticizing Bond's ways, which I'm not a fan of.
Tiffany Case was also a reflection of Bond himself, loner, cold, enjoys luxury and witty.
Honeychile Ryder, not quite, she's into wild, and a survivor, she and Bond had some differences, she's not into luxury and finer things as Bond, she would not last in Bond's world, I'm afraid.
Tracy was also different, she's dependent and clingy to Bond, she's fragile and could be easily hurt, subservient, and very touch feely, Bond wasn't soft and domestic as Tracy.
If there's one similarity between the both of them, it might be the luxury and finer things in life, but apart from that, she's not as witty as Bond, and she's open to her emotions and thoughts compared to Bond who's silent and mysterious.
Though I might say that her film version by Diana Rigg was more of Bond's reflection (at least the film version of Bond), you really see some Bond's traits into her, it's shown in the film, she's tough, reckless, aggressive, confident, and defying someone's orders, just like Bond himself.
I'm not sure, in today's world dating someone who's older and younger than you, was an issue, look at how people perceived Moore and his love interests then and look at how it's perceived now.
People didn't mind the age gap back then, but now, since people were more criticizing, the age gap was becoming a sensitive issue these days.
Heck, even the chemistry between the actors was often criticized or praised, something that the people didn't mind back then.
There's so many couples in Hollywood back in 60's that the people didn't mind and not criticized, think of an old Cary Grant being paired to a younger actress in some Hitchcock films, people didn't mind it then.
But now people would look and find at every flaw just to criticize the film.
I think Pussy Galore, in regards to her characterization, was very much ahead of her time, but the way Fleming treated her in the novel was unjustifiable and that backstory also weighed her down a bit.
But in terms of her description as a character (Lesbian, leader of a gang, challenged Bond), she's ahead of her time.
But well, just my opinion.
Hmm, I'm afraid I never quite got that in Fleming's Vesper. More in the film version to be fair. Perhaps I need to reread it. I think Fleming honed his ability to write female characters better later on.
Tiffany, yes, she very much shared a lot of Bond's traits for me, and it was easy to see them falling for each other. I think Fleming even knew he'd written a strong character who had that believable relationship with Bond as he had to find a way of essentially getting rid of her in FRWL.
Honey Rider's an odd one in the book. For what it's worth, I never said that Bond and the Bond girl had to share very specific character traits per say, or even always be reflections of each other, just that they had to be on some sort of equal footing in believable aspects. Honey in the book is certainly a survivor and an adventurer as you said. But I think it's those traits which Bond finds attractive about her in the novel, especially in this particular setting. She's certainly resourceful, tough, is able to navigate Crab Key, and actually in the novel she's the one who escapes and essentially drags the injured Bond out of Dr. No's lair. Without her he'd likely be dead. It's something the films wouldn't have done at that time.
Tracy's depression is played up in the novel at the beginning, but she could be tough and impulsive. Film and novels are different beasts, so I'm not going to go into which version is better or more believable (Rigg's performance and screen presence certainly sell the character as being more femme fatale-like, and the fact that the film wouldn't have been able to go quite as deeply into Tracy's mental health issues has an impact on how we view this character). The logic is the same though - Bond truly realises he loves this girl after she aids him after he escapes Piz Gloria. He saved her life, now she has saved his.
The entire Pussy Galore backstory seems pretty typical for that time. I don't know off the top of my head if any other detective, crime or thriller novels had similar lesbian characters who challenged the hero in that way, so can't say one way or the other if she's ahead of her time in that sense.
I do think the film vastly improves on Galore as a character though. The fact that she's a pilot working for Goldfinger and not a gang leader makes much more sense narratively. While some would argue her being a lesbian is hinted at ('I'm immune') it's extremely subtle, if not non-existent to many, and it simply plays as less absurd when she eventually falls for Bond. As much as the barn scene is criticised nowadays (I can see why), a moment like that does help in establishing that romantic relationship between them and more believably feeds into Galore's decision to betray Goldfinger/help Bond.
I mean, it'd be cool seeing a Bond girl in a future film who's a bisexual leader of a female crime gang (sort of a Catwoman character I suppose), but we won't get a straightforward adaptation of Pussy Galore.
I think they more or less did right by the Galore character for the time. She does not seem weak or defeated at any point, despite Bond forcing himself on her (which would have been viewed differently in the '60s, and indeed, the '80s).
The seduction/blackmail of Fearing and the slap of Tracy are harder to watch from that era.
LIAR!
Barbara Carrera was nuts in that role. I love it!