Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • I could see them going for a female director. Is Sam-Taylor Johnson not high-profile enough?

    Not that it's a particularly bold prediction, but I predict that if Aaron Taylor Johnson is cast as the next Bond, his wife will become the first ever female director of a Bond film. But no, she won't direct Bond 26.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 579
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I slept on it and while I think its dangerous, Ive come around to a past setting

    Not that I disagree, but why do you think it's dangerous? Also, I feel somewhat similarly. I *would* prefer a Bond 26 set in the present, but I trust Nolan. If he wants to set it in the past, that's okay with me. Heck, Nolan is pretty much the only one I trust to deliver an excellent Bond film set in the past.
  • Posts: 4,139
    It’s a risk certainly. Even with the nostalgia boom in modern films/tv it’s not really for the 50s or even 60s. To most casual viewers Bond is simply modern too, fixed but ever changing with the times. And there’s budgetary issues with period pieces on Bond’s scale. Also is Bond to be fighting the Russians? That might have minor issues attached to it nowadays. Will this hypothetical Bond film touch on societal issues of the time in a Mad Men sort of way? Or will it ignore them in favour of lighter escapism? Either way it’ll piss off some viewers. I don’t implicitly trust Nolan to handle all that - he’s had controversies in the latter department even with Oppenheimer.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,382
    It's also a little fraught: looking at the performances of the likes of Indy 5 or Man From UNCLE, I could see why studio bosses could be nervous of a period action film.
    I'm trying to think of exceptions. I guess Captain America? That was a while ago though.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,629
    mtm wrote: »
    It's also a little fraught: looking at the performances of the likes of Indy 5 or Man From UNCLE, I could see why studio bosses could be nervous of a period action film.
    I'm trying to think of exceptions. I guess Captain America? That was a while ago though.

    That was successful because of the MCU brand name. I just EON doesn’t go that route with that much Bond content at once.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    That's what I end up coming back to: it's going to be much harder to make a huge box office success out of a period action/spy film. Maybe with Nolan at the helm and a stellar cast, it could still happen, but I can't imagine it's a sustainable idea over an entire era. I'd love to be wrong though.
  • Nolan's 3 hour drama set in the 1940s made more money than NTTD, which is an action packed movie set in the present. Just saying.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    mtm wrote: »
    It's also a little fraught: looking at the performances of the likes of Indy 5 or Man From UNCLE, I could see why studio bosses could be nervous of a period action film.
    I'm trying to think of exceptions. I guess Captain America? That was a while ago though.

    Well they don't often do 'period action films' as a franchise because there often is little reason, but of course they do make period films that are successful, some with action in them. Things like The Mummy (Brendan Fraser version), adaptations like The Three Musketeers, and of course war films and westerns. If TV can do it for The Ipcress File I'm sure Eon can make it work for Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Nolan's 3 hour drama set in the 1940s made more money than NTTD, which is an action packed movie set in the present. Just saying.

    That's an outlier, not a formula....
  • I’d also make the argument that Oppenheimer also benefited from being part of the “Barbenheimer” social media craze, if I even spelt that correctly.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    mtm wrote: »
    It's also a little fraught: looking at the performances of the likes of Indy 5 or Man From UNCLE, I could see why studio bosses could be nervous of a period action film.
    I'm trying to think of exceptions. I guess Captain America? That was a while ago though.

    Well they don't often do 'period action films' as a franchise because there often is little reason, but of course they do make period films that are successful, some with action in them. Things like The Mummy (Brendan Fraser version), adaptations like The Three Musketeers, and of course war films and westerns. If TV can do it for The Ipcress File I'm sure Eon can make it work for Bond.

    I'm in two minds on a cost basis: it will increase the budget to have everything in period. But then if you look at NTTD you have: Matera, which is basically period anyway- there's not much there which couldn't be in the 60s or 30s or whenever: there's even a load of 60s cars around for some reason. And of course Bond's car is a 60s car, totally recreated for the film. Jamaica is mostly beach and trees and sea and a house they built, so no problem. You've also got Cuba which is pretty much entirely built on the Pinewood backlot, so building period is no problem there. Norway: mostly wilderness again so no problem. Safin's base is all studio set so can be whatever you want. You have dozens and dozens of digitally adjusted shots that we don't even notice (did you know the shot of Bond sliding his Aston out of the garage in London was flipped? Same with the arrival at the Matera train station: those would have been digitally altered so signs, cars etc. were the right way around) so the vast majority of locations can be altered.
    If NTTD had been a period film you'd pretty much only be looking at, what? The London scenes like Bond's MI6 arrival or the riverside chat with M which were a problem; the Jamaica roundabout; hiring some period planes and boats.. and that's kind of it. So actually, budget-wise, surprisingly I don't think it would be a problem.
    There's more of an issue when it comes to product placement I guess; if companies can't get their current product in there they may be less interested.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited September 2023 Posts: 4,587
    Nolans films make money based on the name attached. Guaranteed that Oppenheimer doesn't make the amount it did with any other director. (Maybe Spielberg)
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    It's also a little fraught: looking at the performances of the likes of Indy 5 or Man From UNCLE, I could see why studio bosses could be nervous of a period action film.
    I'm trying to think of exceptions. I guess Captain America? That was a while ago though.

    Well they don't often do 'period action films' as a franchise because there often is little reason, but of course they do make period films that are successful, some with action in them. Things like The Mummy (Brendan Fraser version), adaptations like The Three Musketeers, and of course war films and westerns. If TV can do it for The Ipcress File I'm sure Eon can make it work for Bond.

    I'm in two minds on a cost basis: it will increase the budget to have everything in period. But then if you look at NTTD you have: Matera, which is basically period anyway- there's not much there which couldn't be in the 60s or 30s or whenever: there's even a load of 60s cars around for some reason. And of course Bond's car is a 60s car, totally recreated for the film. Jamaica is mostly beach and trees and sea and a house they built, so no problem. You've also got Cuba which is pretty much entirely built on the Pinewood backlot, so building period is no problem there. Norway: mostly wilderness again so no problem. Safin's base is all studio set so can be whatever you want. You have dozens and dozens of digitally adjusted shots that we don't even notice (did you know the shot of Bond sliding his Aston out of the garage in London was flipped? Same with the arrival at the Matera train station: those would have been digitally altered so signs, cars etc. were the right way around) so the vast majority of locations can be altered.
    If NTTD had been a period film you'd pretty much only be looking at, what? The London scenes like Bond's MI6 arrival or the riverside chat with M which were a problem; the Jamaica roundabout; hiring some period planes and boats.. and that's kind of it. So actually, budget-wise, surprisingly I don't think it would be a problem.
    There's more of an issue when it comes to product placement I guess; if companies can't get their current product in there they may be less interested.

    Yes, I think it's workable, and with them having killed off Bond in the last film they have obviously committed to obviously separate continuities from now on, so if they were going to take a shot at period adaptations of Bond novels now is as good a time as any. I'm still not convinced it's going to happen, but it's not an outlandish idea. I think the lack of a diverse cast for something like Moonraker (if you are being accurate to the book) is going to be a bigger hurdle than anything else, I'm sure Eon are pretty committed on that score, Nolan or no.
  • edited September 2023 Posts: 4,139
    I wouldn’t say that necessarily. They get made because of Nolan’s name, and in certain spheres publicity is attached to him. But there are a surprising number of viewers who didn’t know he directed Oppenheimer when they saw it. A lot of people just don’t care about directors. Oppenheimer is an outlier too and had Barbenheimer to aid it. Potentially in an alternate universe it may have been a moderate success more on the level of Dunkirk (5ish million) or even an underwhelming Tenet draw if the circumstances had been different.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @mtm but why spend the budget on period exterior shots, vehicles, clothing, hair and make up, interiors (from wallpaper to carpets to sitting chairs and so on), extras (also dressed in period), mixed with AI generated imagery (if it's allowed-- one of the sticking points in the upcoming SAG negotiatios)?

    And to build period sets vs contemporary ones usually cost quite a bit more to replicate because of the research and time it takes to make all the details authentic. To dress all the sets in period is a creative and financial undertaking.

    Back in 2010, The Pacific was a massive series with a $200 million budget.

    $200 million with no stars.

    Granted, computer wizardry today can eat into a little of this budget, plus it was a war epic, but a period Bond film would still have to have massive scope as well. It's still need stunts and pyrotechnics inside of the period dressing.

    A financier will say what's the point in spending $250 million on a period action piece, when we can stretch the $250 million budget on other things (like stars), in a contemporary setting.

    There is no added value for making Bond period, and it makes a gigantic project that much harder to execute... and the risk is higher, since a period Bond will not likely appeal to all the global markets.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,382
    peter wrote: »
    @mtm but why spend the budget on period exterior shots, vehicles, clothing, hair and make up, interiors (from wallpaper to carpets to sitting chairs and so on), extras (also dressed in period), mixed with AI generated imagery (if it's allowed-- one of the sticking points in the upcoming SAG negotiatios)?

    And to build period sets vs contemporary ones usually cost quite a bit more to replicate because of the research and time it takes to make all the details authentic. To dress all the sets in period is a creative and financial undertaking.

    Back in 2010, The Pacific was a massive series with a $200 million budget.

    $200 million with no stars.

    Granted, computer wizardry today can eat into a little of this budget, plus it was a war epic, but a period Bond film would still have to have massive scope as well. It's still need stunts and pyrotechnics inside of the period dressing.

    A financier will say what's the point in spending $250 million on a period action piece, when we can stretch the $250 million budget on other things (like stars), in a contemporary setting.

    There is no added value for making Bond period, and it makes a gigantic project that much harder to execute... and the risk is higher, since a period Bond will not likely appeal to all the global markets.

    I totally agree that it wouldn't be a great idea and I don't want it, and I'm not sure the audience would either; but playing the devil's advocate and considering just how much of these films Eon do build on stages and totally control locations, plus the amount of digital retouching they do on these, I don't think it would actually be as much of a budget issue as I first thought. They hire vehicles etc. anyway - there's not going to be much of a premium one on period ones I'd have thought: I know a classic car hire place that supplies lots of films. Plus there are plenty of prop houses full of 20th century stuff. Something like Lucia's villa in Spectre is full of that stuff anyway- Pinewood has still got plenty of the dressings used on The Saint, Bond films of the time etc. And if you look at the Cuba street they built, that's pretty much all period designs, fixtures and fittings because Cuba wasn't built yesterday and doesn't get updated.
    A film like Skyfall with the central London stuff might be trickier, but there's lots of research and set building that goes into these anyway. Silva's island is all 50s/60s architecture; the Spectre Rome meeting room is, what, 18th century? The MI6 open plan offices in SF/SP/NTTD are period buildings again, Skyfall itself is a building hundreds of years old... they do plenty of period research already. Look at the scale of something like the Spectre PTS: hundreds of extras, all in bespoke costumes and makeup. What would actually push the budget higher in the Spectre PTS if it was period? Hire an old helicopter and that's kind of it- it's in an old bit of the city already and I'm sure there's an awful lot of digital retouching going on we don't even know about.
    It would add to the budget, and the product placement is possibly a bigger issue, but the Bond films are so totally controlled and big budget anyway that I'm not sure it's inconceivable. I can see how it would push cheaper productions' budgets much higher and force them build and recreate more than they would have done, but with Bond they're pretty much starting from a blank page with their sets and locations anyway.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Remember when the photos of Mallory's office first appeared and the rumours kicked off that the Craig/Fiennes scene at the end of SF was going to be a re-enactment of the first Bond/M scene in DN?
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited September 2023 Posts: 1,646
    And even with The Pacific it was also mostly uniforms and vehicles. The Pacific theater is an empty beach. That's cheap to find anywhere. That's why I said before I worry a period-set Bond movie would be mostly in closed sets or ambiguous locales, and that's not what Bond typically does (for action).
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    007HallY wrote: »
    I wouldn’t say that necessarily. They get made because of Nolan’s name, and in certain spheres publicity is attached to him. But there are a surprising number of viewers who didn’t know he directed Oppenheimer when they saw it. A lot of people just don’t care about directors.
    This is true.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,646
    LucknFate wrote: »
    I slept on it and while I think its dangerous, Ive come around to a past setting

    Not that I disagree, but why do you think it's dangerous? Also, I feel somewhat similarly. I *would* prefer a Bond 26 set in the present, but I trust Nolan. If he wants to set it in the past, that's okay with me. Heck, Nolan is pretty much the only one I trust to deliver an excellent Bond film set in the past.

    For my judgement, The Man From UNCLE was as close to a period Bond picture we could get, and it has a lot of Fleming-esque elements, and the number 2 Bond choice in a spy role, and it didn't launch a franchise, so how would a similar Bond picture sustain or revitalize a franchise?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,382
    LucknFate wrote: »
    And even with The Pacific it was also mostly uniforms and vehicles. The Pacific theater is an empty beach. That's cheap to find anywhere. That's why I said before I worry a period-set Bond movie would be mostly in closed sets or ambiguous locales, and that's not what Bond typically does (for action).

    That's what I thought, but when you look at the last few films; does it? Which big scenes would have needed a lot more cash? Matera pretty much is period, same with Cuba, Safin's lair, Norway chase- I don't think it would have been a problem there. With SP: Mexico city is a huge tightly controlled affair in an old bit of the city anyway; the Rome chase there's no-one else there(!); snow chase is countryside; the crater base is pretty much from the 50s; Westminster Bridge is a set... Skyfall maybe poses more challenges with some (but not all) of the train stuff; the stuff we see of Istanbul could be dressed; MI6 is all a set; Shanghai had a massive set built for the set piece; the casino is all set; Silva's lair is a set... London becomes more of a problem where you have to dress the tube stations and do something with the running through Westminster, but then the Tube crash is all set; and then you have Skyfall house itself which is both countryside and a big set.

    In a way I can imagine smaller scenes, like Q's escape from the guys on the cable car, suddenly costing more than they need to.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    What would actually push the budget higher in the Spectre PTS if it was period?
    @mtm agreed, but that’s also my point: it’s not just for a PTS. Period costume and makeup and sets are for the entirety of a five month shoot. The daily costs on period would be extraordinary.

    But I do understand you point that it’d be a similar budget to the films they’re making, BUT, at what risk (you and I both have an inkling this concept may not work as successfully as the model they have now)
    For my judgement, The Man From UNCLE was as close to a period Bond picture we could get, and it has a lot of Fleming-esque elements, and the number 2 Bond choice in a spy role, and it didn't launch a franchise, so how would a similar Bond picture sustain or revitalize a franchise?

    I agree @LucknFate … Tgeres not really a global appetite for action period pieces. It doesn’t make any commercial sense whatsoever. Risk and reward. The words the film industry lives by. And the less risk, and more reward ($$$), the better.

    Investing in a period Bond film at what return?

    Better to use a quarter of a billion and make a contemporary film, make it as best as they can, for maximum profit
  • Guys, remember that this wouldn't just be a Bond film set in the past. This would be a Bond film set in the past with a Nolan twist. It wouldn't just be a more serious The Man from U.N.C.L.E.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2023 Posts: 16,382
    peter wrote: »
    What would actually push the budget higher in the Spectre PTS if it was period?
    @mtm agreed, but that’s also my point: it’s not just for a PTS. Period costume and makeup and sets are for the entirety of a five month shoot. The daily costs on period would be extraordinary.

    But I do understand you point that it’d be a similar budget to the films they’re making, BUT, at what risk (you and I both have an inkling this concept may not work as successfully as the model they have now)

    Yeah, as I said earlier; they'd be eyeing up the performance of Indy 5 and UNCLE and things like that and wondering whether it's a good idea.
    But in terms of expense: costume and makeup? They're already spending oodles on that anyway. It would make things a bit more expensive and harder to do, yes - I remember I got to walk past on the pavement in that scene in Skyfall where M and Tanner are in the Jag getting the 'think on your sins' message, and I'd never have been able to do that if it were period- they'd have to close it all down. Although that scene does also show how big these films are: they weren't shooting that in traffic, all of the cars on that (very main) London road were all part of the filming and they all reversed back into position for a new take. And that's just for a quite brief interior scene in a car!
    So these are big, very controlled films anyway- there's nothing being done guerilla-style on these.

    Something like that scene where Bond arrives at MI6 in NTTD; that all looks natural but I bet you all of those cars on the road that Bond crosses to get to the building are all film cars. Swapping those out for period cars would be pretty much no expense at all. A few extras in costume, paint out some modern street furniture- on Eon's budget I don't think that's breaking the bank. I don't want it and I don't think they should, but I think they actually could if they wanted to.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    there's nothing being done guerilla-style on these.

    Ahaha not at all!! Very producer driven and slick machines!!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,296
    mtm wrote: »
    LucknFate wrote: »
    And even with The Pacific it was also mostly uniforms and vehicles. The Pacific theater is an empty beach. That's cheap to find anywhere. That's why I said before I worry a period-set Bond movie would be mostly in closed sets or ambiguous locales, and that's not what Bond typically does (for action).

    That's what I thought, but when you look at the last few films; does it? Which big scenes would have needed a lot more cash? Matera pretty much is period, same with Cuba, Safin's lair, Norway chase- I don't think it would have been a problem there. With SP: Mexico city is a huge tightly controlled affair in an old bit of the city anyway; the Rome chase there's no-one else there(!); snow chase is countryside; the crater base is pretty much from the 50s; Westminster Bridge is a set... Skyfall maybe poses more challenges with some (but not all) of the train stuff; the stuff we see of Istanbul could be dressed; MI6 is all a set; Shanghai had a massive set built for the set piece; the casino is all set; Silva's lair is a set... London becomes more of a problem where you have to dress the tube stations and do something with the running through Westminster, but then the Tube crash is all set; and then you have Skyfall house itself which is both countryside and a big set.

    In a way I can imagine smaller scenes, like Q's escape from the guys on the cable car, suddenly costing more than they need to.

    Not that I want a period Bond but you make really good points.

    Bond films are often set in classic, less contemporary locations (for some reason AVTAK just came to mind), and also outdoors in big nature settings...so in that sense it would be easier for a Bond film to go period than something that is rooted in the present reality.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    Wild card:
    Go period, *but* not to the books.
    Go 87-97, because we weren’t in serious spy mode for the films at the first part of that, really engage with the Cold War ending setting, and take us right up to the HK handover as the epilogue to that Cold War and the end of empire. They can even do a couple of Benson adaptations.
    Not strictly Fleming — he started dodging Russia — but open to Fleming themes. And, still very zeitgeist in pop culture, though they are moving on to the 2ks. (See how Liason used that in its backstory, for one example of 2k nostalgia)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,382
    JustJames wrote: »
    Wild card:
    Go period, *but* not to the books.
    Go 87-97, because we weren’t in serious spy mode for the films at the first part of that, really engage with the Cold War ending setting, and take us right up to the HK handover as the epilogue to that Cold War and the end of empire. They can even do a couple of Benson adaptations.
    Not strictly Fleming — he started dodging Russia — but open to Fleming themes. And, still very zeitgeist in pop culture, though they are moving on to the 2ks. (See how Liason used that in its backstory, for one example of 2k nostalgia)

    I must admit, I have thought before that IFP could do a Bond book around the early 80s and it could have a nicely different Cold War flavour.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited September 2023 Posts: 3,152
    Yeah, but I lived through the '80s - hated it then, hate the memory of it now. It's a hard Hell no from me, man! ;)
  • How would you react if they got Peter Jackson to write and direct? He very famously was considered for TWINE. Him returning to directing after a decade would certainly generate big buzz!
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