Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,057
    CrabKey wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I speculate this thread has run out ideas.

    I would say that's true of almost every thread on this site. Thunderball III? Why not? Batman has been telling the same story for decades.
    Yes, it's true of many threads, which is why I now mostly pay attention to off-topic ones. But unlike the other Bond-related threads, I find this one carries a feeling of importance to it. It is, after all, about the future of the films. Yet the truth is, for all its presumed importance, actual news to discuss are far and few between, and when there are news, they are often non-news, like "we haven't even started." And so we have endless speculation on the basis of almost nothing. And even if we did have substantial news, I'm no longer interested in reading detailed thoughts on it-- I'll save the analysis until after I watch the movie. This thread is just a big waiting room.

    The way Babs is talking about it the franchise is in hibernation anyway, I'm not sure how much of a difference the strikes will make. EON were in no hurry on the previous films, they're certainly not going to hurry into starting the next era with a new actor. We won't see Bond 26 until late 2026 at the earliest.
    I take you'll continue to call Bond 26 Bond 26 forever?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2023 Posts: 8,201
    “Boo hoo it’s taking too long”
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    talos7 wrote: »
    I just can’t fathom, or believe, that NOTHING Is being done. I agree with @peter in feeling that they have nothing to announce. When building a house, a great deal of work goes on before construction begins.

    You’re right @talos7 . I’m a broken record here; I keep saying the same things, but some people want to live in some kind of perpetual anger with Barbara Broccoli.

    I said this just last week: If they made an announcement every time there was movement on a project, it’d be like forcing us to watch paint dry for the next three years.

    Yes, there was more chatter before the strikes, and less now. Personally, I believe that that’s because during the half a year of strikes, I think they’re taking a new tact, and therefore circled back to the first few steps of development.

    To think that nothing’s going on is just silly. And I can assure you as well (and actually I think you may’ve seen the text I received), they have been hands-on with the series and the video game (this did surprise me, since I thought they were basically licensing out the Bond brand based off the films and just let those creatives take it from there; I was wrong, and it shows how invested they are in NOT just handing over EoN’s Bond to ANYONE. It’s their property and they will see it done properly).
  • Get a another hobby guys
  • Posts: 1,426
    talos7 wrote: »
    I just can’t fathom, or believe, that NOTHING Is being done. I agree with @peter in feeling that they have nothing to announce. When building a house, a great deal of work goes on before construction begins.

    MI flopped. I'm sure that was a red flag for them.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,439
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I take you'll continue to call Bond 26 Bond 26 forever?

    What are you calling it?
  • Posts: 566
    peter wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I just can’t fathom, or believe, that NOTHING Is being done. I agree with @peter in feeling that they have nothing to announce. When building a house, a great deal of work goes on before construction begins.

    You’re right @talos7 . I’m a broken record here; I keep saying the same things, but some people want to live in some kind of perpetual anger with Barbara Broccoli.

    I said this just last week: If they made an announcement every time there was movement on a project, it’d be like forcing us to watch paint dry for the next three years.

    Yes, there was more chatter before the strikes, and less now. Personally, I believe that that’s because during the half a year of strikes, I think they’re taking a new tact, and therefore circled back to the first few steps of development.

    To think that nothing’s going on is just silly. And I can assure you as well (and actually I think you may’ve seen the text I received), they have been hands-on with the series and the video game (this did surprise me, since I thought they were basically licensing out the Bond brand based off the films and just let those creatives take it from there; I was wrong, and it shows how invested they are in NOT just handing over EoN’s Bond to ANYONE. It’s their property and they will see it done properly).

    I wish I had the interview/post, so feel free to disregard this, but I remember years ago reading a thing (I think by one of the Activision people?) that mentioned EON felt the games were getting too violent and diluting the quality. It doesn't surprise me to hear how hands-on they've been with the game.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    edited October 2023 Posts: 7,057
    “Boo hoo it’s taking too long”
    Was that addressed at me? Because I don't really care much about when the next film comes out. It's more that I find this thread to be a waste of time. That's why I'll quit reading it.

    mattjoes wrote: »
    I take you'll continue to call Bond 26 Bond 26 forever?

    What are you calling it?
    Bond 26, of course. Since it follows Bond 25, a Film Which Has No Other Title Whatsoever.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    peter wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I just can’t fathom, or believe, that NOTHING Is being done. I agree with @peter in feeling that they have nothing to announce. When building a house, a great deal of work goes on before construction begins.

    You’re right @talos7 . I’m a broken record here; I keep saying the same things, but some people want to live in some kind of perpetual anger with Barbara Broccoli.

    I said this just last week: If they made an announcement every time there was movement on a project, it’d be like forcing us to watch paint dry for the next three years.

    Yes, there was more chatter before the strikes, and less now. Personally, I believe that that’s because during the half a year of strikes, I think they’re taking a new tact, and therefore circled back to the first few steps of development.

    To think that nothing’s going on is just silly. And I can assure you as well (and actually I think you may’ve seen the text I received), they have been hands-on with the series and the video game (this did surprise me, since I thought they were basically licensing out the Bond brand based off the films and just let those creatives take it from there; I was wrong, and it shows how invested they are in NOT just handing over EoN’s Bond to ANYONE. It’s their property and they will see it done properly).

    I think a lot of people online these days actually enjoy being upset about something and social media has exploited that. To feel indignant makes one feel righteous in their anger towards Eon, LucasFilm, Marvel, whatever else you wanna bring up. Opinions are no longer just opinions but now weaponized to whine all over the internet about how things are worse than ever. It’s a social media of hyperbole, and even MI6-HQ has been guilty of that putting out articles of how upsetting it is that Eon is not churning out films as if it’s still the sausage factory of the John Glen era.
    mattjoes wrote: »
    “Boo hoo it’s taking too long”
    Was that addressed at me? Because I don't really care much about when the next film comes out. It's more that I find this thread to be a waste of time. That's why I'll quit reading it.

    No, just directed at fandom.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,511
    Excellent point @MakeshiftPython
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,577
    BMB007 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I just can’t fathom, or believe, that NOTHING Is being done. I agree with @peter in feeling that they have nothing to announce. When building a house, a great deal of work goes on before construction begins.

    You’re right @talos7 . I’m a broken record here; I keep saying the same things, but some people want to live in some kind of perpetual anger with Barbara Broccoli.

    I said this just last week: If they made an announcement every time there was movement on a project, it’d be like forcing us to watch paint dry for the next three years.

    Yes, there was more chatter before the strikes, and less now. Personally, I believe that that’s because during the half a year of strikes, I think they’re taking a new tact, and therefore circled back to the first few steps of development.

    To think that nothing’s going on is just silly. And I can assure you as well (and actually I think you may’ve seen the text I received), they have been hands-on with the series and the video game (this did surprise me, since I thought they were basically licensing out the Bond brand based off the films and just let those creatives take it from there; I was wrong, and it shows how invested they are in NOT just handing over EoN’s Bond to ANYONE. It’s their property and they will see it done properly).

    I wish I had the interview/post, so feel free to disregard this, but I remember years ago reading a thing (I think by one of the Activision people?) that mentioned EON felt the games were getting too violent and diluting the quality. It doesn't surprise me to hear how hands-on they've been with the game.

    That's very interesting; I can see why they may have had that concern. The Bond of video games does tend to murder a lot more people than the film version! :)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    I'll take a sausage factory over the march of the snails.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    I just tell myself things could be worse, like they could have cast a charisma free actor like Henry Cavill.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,154
    It can get a bit frustrating now and again, but I'd rather they take the time to get it right than revert to the old-style production line schedule. Too much riding on a new Bond's first outing to go off half-cocked. Which reminds me, I don't remotely mind the casual sex in Bond movies nor do I find it misogynistic - he doesn't do it by himself, after all. So to speak.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    EON taking their time doesn't always guarantee good results. Brofeld anyone?
  • Posts: 4,273
    Murdock wrote: »
    EON taking their time doesn't always guarantee good results. Brofeld anyone?

    That’s more an example where they rushed things arguably.
  • Posts: 2,023

    007HallY wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    EON taking their time doesn't always guarantee good results. Brofeld anyone?

    That’s more an example where they rushed things arguably.

    Was Brofeld a rush job? Or a bad idea that should never have been allowed.

    This isn't taking their time. Working on something for a long time is quite different from "several years later we haven't even started thinking about it."

  • Posts: 1,864
    CrabKey wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    EON taking their time doesn't always guarantee good results. Brofeld anyone?

    That’s more an example where they rushed things arguably.

    Was Brofeld a rush job? Or a bad idea that should never have been allowed.

    This isn't taking their time. Working on something for a long time is quite different from "several years later we haven't even started thinking about it."

    No getting around the fact that Brofeld was one of the worst ideas of the entire series. How did Eon ever allow this to go forward? No matter who's idea it was.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    It was Michael G. Wilson’s.

    I think that was a cry for retirement.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2023 Posts: 3,800
    delfloria wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    JustJames wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    Denise Richards was convincing as a Nuclear Physicist, as Barbara Bach was, as a (Russian) Human Being or Tanya Roberts as a Government Geologist.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    Not for a second did I buy DR in the role. For me it comes down to this. Of all the actresses known and those unknown, she was the best choice? Even if every known actress wanted was unavailable, she was still the best?

    Yes, there are a lot of actresses that could've pull the Scientist aspect off, but again, if that's how the role was written, even if you put Oscar Winning Actresses in there, there's no way it could've still worked.

    That Lara Croft outfit was even written in the script (described as "Khaki Sports Bra", similar shorts and heavy boots, in the script), she's also meant to be a French Polynesian, and described as a girl in her mid twenties, shortish hair and "hot right now", like really, there's no other way that character could've worked it would still turned out over the top as it is, Denise Richards just added a lot more insult to the injury, she just made the situation worse.

    Here's the full script, regarding Christmas Jones' description

    fyrlx0hir3561.png



    It works with Lara Croft.

    It was the nineties. We had accepted that being ‘hot’ was not anti-ethical to also being ‘smart’ and it that it was a choice. Kind of a sixties rerun thing, like much at the tail end of that decade.
    I ain’t big on Christmas Jones, or on Denise Richards, but it was of its time and no more inherently ridiculous or sexist than Bond getting out of the sea in his speedos.
    Bond himself is always sexualised, and that is something that increases as the franchise goes on — it is a mistake to stop also sexualising the ‘Bond Girl’, and the real sexism is in the opinion that characters like Jones are unrealistic, particularly in the context of a Bond movie.

    You need to sexy to balance out the violence, otherwise you may as well just go and watch whatever Hollywood Blockbuster is doing the rounds. Bond is British, and a particular kind of European even. Always has been, on page and screen, with screen being more balance tbh.

    Bond being sexualized is accepted, since it's like a Red Sparrow type of thing, it involves Sexpionage, using sex for intelligence, that's alright, and the Bond films being sexualized is a fine thing for that.

    But Christmas Jones as a character is just silly and ridiculous, it's already there in the script that she's made that way, it's just pure cartoonish, almost Austin Powers territory type of camp, she's just there because???? I know her purpose regarding the plot, but her description was simply out of place, sure it's not being sexy (there are sexy professionals, just like Miss Universe candidates that were also professionals), but the way she's written like she's explicitly being sexy of wearing such an outfit that's not fitting for a workplace, that's just wrong.

    It makes Stacey Sutton more plausible as a State Geologist, because at least her outfits and the way she acted throughout the film really fits with what she was as a character, a Geologist, so, I don't expect her to be a fighter, so I don't get the criticisms regarding her shouting because she's a Geologist and she's a civilian, and there's Holly Goodhead, and she's also convincing as an Astrophysicist and a CIA Agent, and yet those women are beautiful and sexy too.

    It's one of the same reasons why I don't buy Anya Amasova as a tough KGB agent, one of the best Agents that Russia could offer, when in reality, she doesn't do anything, and I don't even for a second buy her killing just a mosquito, let alone punch a bad guy, she's more of a Domino type of Bond Girl to me, Barbara Bach just happened to made the situation more worse because she gave a bad performance, wooden acting.

    As for Denise Richards, well the description was a Scientist, and she played it like a sassy schoolgirl more than a Professional one, but is it her fault? No, she's just cast in such a badly written role.

    "Punch a bad guy"??? When did that become a woman's weapon of choice. Somebody has been watching too many marvel films. You do know why "the female of the species IS deadlier than the male"?

    Well, sorry for the late reply.
    Well, it's that she's conceived as Bond's equal, a tough one? Well, I expect her to be like that, heck, you even have Wai Lin doing physical fights.
    I don't see any qualities that makes her that so called "one of the best agents Russia could offer", let alone "Bond's Russian Equivalent", just like Christmas Jones, not believable.
    It's not a Marvel Thing, you're sent to a mission, one may expect you to do your job well done, not to be incompetent and just be a passive version of Mary Goodnight, or just Solitaire turned into an agent kind of thing.
    Holly Goodhead for me did it better with all of her skills shown, making Wai Lin her successor.
    It was Michael G. Wilson’s.

    I think that was a cry for retirement.

    I'm wondering why they've supported that idea, no?
    They could've rejected it, heck, they've denied an idea from Danny Boyle which was far more interesting than the one MGW got (that Brofeld).

    Just because out of their respect for MGW because he's a Co-Producer?

    Sure, he proposed that idea, but they had the choice not to include it in the final script and reject it.

    But why they've still included it in the script?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.
  • edited October 2023 Posts: 1,426
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    It was like Sherlock Holmes pastiche. Moriarty is Holmes father or something like that.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited October 2023 Posts: 16,577
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    It kind of is though: it’s just an extension of the Fleming plot of Octopussy: Bond goes after the murderer of his childhood mentor. Once that is in place then making the killer the mentor’s son isn’t really changing much about the Fleming story. And once you’ve done that, then giving him a familiar name isn’t much of a leap either. I can see how it seemed like a reasonable idea.
    Venutius wrote: »
    It can get a bit frustrating now and again, but I'd rather they take the time to get it right than revert to the old-style production line schedule. Too much riding on a new Bond's first outing to go off half-cocked. Which reminds me, I don't remotely mind the casual sex in Bond movies nor do I find it misogynistic - he doesn't do it by himself, after all. So to speak.

    They’re not real women though; they’re not actually making their own decisions.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.

    At the time of their releases, OHMSS and LTK were thought by some to be veering too far off from where Bond had gone before.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.

    At the time of their releases, OHMSS and LTK were thought by some to be veering too far off from where Bond had gone before.

    I remember hearing of a time when OHMSS was considered the black sheep of the franchise. Not just because of being a Lazenby one off, but there were audiences that thought the idea of Bond getting married was ridiculous for the series. Sure, it’s directly from Fleming, but most audiences that watch Bond never picked up a book. Only a few of us Bond nerds have, And for many years OHMSS had a terrible reputation that didn’t start to turn around until DVD.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.

    At the time of their releases, OHMSS and LTK were thought by some to be veering too far off from where Bond had gone before.

    I remember hearing of a time when OHMSS was considered the black sheep of the franchise. Not just because of being a Lazenby one off, but there were audiences that thought the idea of Bond getting married was ridiculous for the series. Sure, it’s directly from Fleming, but most audiences that watch Bond never picked up a book. Only a few of us Bond nerds have, And for many years OHMSS had a terrible reputation that didn’t start to turn around until DVD.

    Exactly. And the first time the film was shown on ABC in 1976, it was completely butchered just to fit their available time slots. The chronology of events was screwed up and a voice-over narration was added. This film was not at all treated with the same respect it enjoys today.
  • Posts: 1,426
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.

    At the time of their releases, OHMSS and LTK were thought by some to be veering too far off from where Bond had gone before.

    I remember hearing of a time when OHMSS was considered the black sheep of the franchise. Not just because of being a Lazenby one off, but there were audiences that thought the idea of Bond getting married was ridiculous for the series. Sure, it’s directly from Fleming, but most audiences that watch Bond never picked up a book. Only a few of us Bond nerds have, And for many years OHMSS had a terrible reputation that didn’t start to turn around until DVD.


    NSNA has terrible reputation and it has more Fleming than all Brosnan movies put together.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,250
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Michael Wilson's story ideas and scripts have been of uneven quality, to say the least. Yet, for some reason, it's "Babs" who takes most of the blame from so-called fans.
    Because they were probably thinking it could be played as dramatically epic like Cain and Abel. They weren’t concerned over fans crying foul because it’s not something Fleming did.

    And I hope they'll continue not being concerned over "fans". I don't like the foster brother plot either, but I still want every next film to try something new, something we haven't seen before. And in the past fifteen or so years, it's become obvious to me that many - not all! - fans simply want stuff they've already seen and are comfortable with...

    ... only to bash a film when it actually does the same things again. ;))
    We're a difficult lot. ;-)

    I want to see some different and unique stuffs too, as long as it's not:

    * Top far from the Bond standards (the Brofeld idea went too far from it)
    * Executed well (Bond having a kid and dying in NTTD are both different ideas that I have no problem about, it's just that, they're not executed well, or at least how the script handled those ideas).

    I liked both OHMSS and LTK, and it's showed the different side of Bond without veering too far away and executing it well, even TWINE's idea of making Elektra a main villain, even Skyfall of killing M, and it's the only film that handled that trope of "a villain coming back from the past to haunt a character" type of thing, successfully, the next two are very much a repeated steps and failed.

    I liked them trying something new, as long as they would pass the criteria above.

    At the time of their releases, OHMSS and LTK were thought by some to be veering too far off from where Bond had gone before.

    I remember hearing of a time when OHMSS was considered the black sheep of the franchise. Not just because of being a Lazenby one off, but there were audiences that thought the idea of Bond getting married was ridiculous for the series. Sure, it’s directly from Fleming, but most audiences that watch Bond never picked up a book. Only a few of us Bond nerds have, And for many years OHMSS had a terrible reputation that didn’t start to turn around until DVD.


    NSNA has terrible reputation and it has more Fleming than all Brosnan movies put together.

    Even if that were true, the movie Bond is not necessarily the Fleming Bond. Books are books; films are films. The sum total of all the things that GE, for example, does right as a Bond movie, makes NSNA pale in comparison.
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