Where does Bond go after Craig?

1447448450452453681

Comments

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 18 Posts: 16,413
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Monorailer wrote: »
    Tim Burton's Batman was nominally set in the present day but clearly had 1940s aesthetics. Perhaps Bond could go an equally stylised route with1960s trimmings while retaining a contemporary setting?

    In a way I think they've already been doing that in the last couple of movies; Bond and Madeleine listening to vinyl records in Matera, the consistent reappearance of the DB5, the Rolls Royce in SP, Blofeld and Safin's lairs, the MI6 offices, Craig's style being inspired by Steve McQueen, etc.

    Matera is even full of classic cars in the background- a 60s Fiat here, a 60s Ferrari there: there are some choices being made to make that part of the film feel classic.
    There's a lot of Skyfall I feel you could say is of 'no time' too.

    I think an interesting thing about the later Craig films is that they feel slightly more impressionistic, especially in terms of visuals. Bond’s of course always had a sense of heightened reality, and there’ll always be a ‘timelessness’ to it just because of this, but I really get a much greater sense of it, for instance, when I see how overtly Gothic Scotland/the manor are depicted in SF, the yellow tinge to the visuals in SP (whether one likes this choice or not), the fact that as has been pointed out in another thread there’s often an emptiness to the locations even when this doesn’t always logically make sense. Heck, NTTD goes even further with that to the point its story has a tinge of sci fi.

    It’s something I hope they continue to lean into, and I kinda suspect they will just going from precedent. In terms of film/the general ‘trends’ of the day we’re not in an era of gritty, and on the surface ‘realistic’ (at least superficially) action movies with shakey camerawork and quick editing. A lot of big films even have a similar leaning towards that Impressionism/heightened reality I’d argue (John Wick being a major example).

    I certainly think Bond should always have an element of being stylised: Ken Adam wasn't suggesting that offices in the real world only looked good from one angle and all had sloped concrete ceilings :D
    Bond is about style- that's why I think the Mendes films got that right: it shouldn't be the real world. I enjoy CR a lot, but it's set in a slightly boring representation of the world.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Venutius wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    There's a lot of Skyfall I feel you could say is of 'no time' too.
    Yes, when the first photo of M's padded office door first appeared, there was even speculation over on ajb that when Bond walked into M's office at the end of SF, Craig and Fiennes were going to re-enact the mission briefing from DN!

    God that brings back some memories!
  • mtm wrote: »
    Bond is about style- that's why I think the Mendes films got that right: it shouldn't be the real world. I enjoy CR a lot, but it's set in a slightly boring representation of the world.
    I totally agree with you. Although I hope that Bond 26 will be a movie reflecting the geopolitical trends and balances of its time, I also hope that it will be something stylized, possibly with a vintage artistic direction regarding its sets and its villain's lair. Despite all its faults, Spectre managed to concile very modern issues (mass surveillance) and a glamorous artistic direction paying homage to the 1960s. This is something that was greatly lacking in Casino Royale in my opinion.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    mtm wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Monorailer wrote: »
    Tim Burton's Batman was nominally set in the present day but clearly had 1940s aesthetics. Perhaps Bond could go an equally stylised route with1960s trimmings while retaining a contemporary setting?

    In a way I think they've already been doing that in the last couple of movies; Bond and Madeleine listening to vinyl records in Matera, the consistent reappearance of the DB5, the Rolls Royce in SP, Blofeld and Safin's lairs, the MI6 offices, Craig's style being inspired by Steve McQueen, etc.

    Matera is even full of classic cars in the background- a 60s Fiat here, a 60s Ferrari there: there are some choices being made to make that part of the film feel classic.
    There's a lot of Skyfall I feel you could say is of 'no time' too.

    I think an interesting thing about the later Craig films is that they feel slightly more impressionistic, especially in terms of visuals. Bond’s of course always had a sense of heightened reality, and there’ll always be a ‘timelessness’ to it just because of this, but I really get a much greater sense of it, for instance, when I see how overtly Gothic Scotland/the manor are depicted in SF, the yellow tinge to the visuals in SP (whether one likes this choice or not), the fact that as has been pointed out in another thread there’s often an emptiness to the locations even when this doesn’t always logically make sense. Heck, NTTD goes even further with that to the point its story has a tinge of sci fi.

    It’s something I hope they continue to lean into, and I kinda suspect they will just going from precedent. In terms of film/the general ‘trends’ of the day we’re not in an era of gritty, and on the surface ‘realistic’ (at least superficially) action movies with shakey camerawork and quick editing. A lot of big films even have a similar leaning towards that Impressionism/heightened reality I’d argue (John Wick being a major example).

    I certainly think Bond should always have an element of being stylised: Ken Adam wasn't suggesting that offices in the real world only looked good from one angle and all had sloped concrete ceilings :D
    Bond is about style- that's why I think the Mendes films got that right: it shouldn't be the real world. I enjoy CR a lot, but it's set in a slightly boring representation of the world.

    I agree wholeheartedly. Escapism and style is the first thing I think about when I think James Bond.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    mtm wrote: »
    Bond is about style- that's why I think the Mendes films got that right: it shouldn't be the real world. I enjoy CR a lot, but it's set in a slightly boring representation of the world.
    I totally agree with you. Although I hope that Bond 26 will be a movie reflecting the geopolitical trends and balances of its time, I also hope that it will be something stylized, possibly with a vintage artistic direction regarding its sets and its villain's lair. Despite all its faults, Spectre managed to concile very modern issues (mass surveillance) and a glamorous artistic direction paying homage to the 1960s. This is something that was greatly lacking in Casino Royale in my opinion.

    For the most part I agree with much of this, although I think CR was exactly what it needed to be, but I have to say the the "villain's lair" in SPECTRE was incredibly boring and realized. The Idea of it being in a crater was brilliant but the execution was extremely unimpressive, It really screamed for more visual panache and should have been the site of the main conclusion .
  • To be honest, as much as I love the 60’s era of Bond and will forever cherish those films, some of the later Craig Bond films perhaps leaned a bit too much into that aesthetic for nostalgia purposes. That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.
  • That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.
    I have a slight preference for Quantum of Solace over Casino Royale. While Casino Royale is obviously a better movie, I think Quantum had a more elegant and stylized production design, more in line with what I like or hope to see in a Bond film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 18 Posts: 16,413
    talos7 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Bond is about style- that's why I think the Mendes films got that right: it shouldn't be the real world. I enjoy CR a lot, but it's set in a slightly boring representation of the world.
    I totally agree with you. Although I hope that Bond 26 will be a movie reflecting the geopolitical trends and balances of its time, I also hope that it will be something stylized, possibly with a vintage artistic direction regarding its sets and its villain's lair. Despite all its faults, Spectre managed to concile very modern issues (mass surveillance) and a glamorous artistic direction paying homage to the 1960s. This is something that was greatly lacking in Casino Royale in my opinion.

    For the most part I agree with much of this, although I think CR was exactly what it needed to be, but I have to say the the "villain's lair" in SPECTRE was incredibly boring and realized. The Idea of it being in a crater was brilliant but the execution was extremely unimpressive, It really screamed for more visual panache and should have been the site of the main conclusion .

    I think it could have been more, but I rather liked the stark 50s modernism of the place- it certainly had an intended style to it. It's what the Fleming villain bases would have looked like had Adam not reimagined them.
    That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.
    I have a slight preference for Quantum of Solace over Casino Royale. While Casino Royale is obviously a better movie, I think Quantum had a more elegant and stylized production design, more in line with what I like or hope to see in a Bond film.

    Yeah I'd agree there. There's a bit more going on visually in QoS.
    The actual casino in CR with the lit up bar and all that actually looks a bit naff to me, which I'm not sure a Bond set should do.
  • Posts: 1,368
    To be honest, as much as I love the 60’s era of Bond and will forever cherish those films, some of the later Craig Bond films perhaps leaned a bit too much into that aesthetic for nostalgia purposes. That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.

    Yes but I think it was a reacction to QoS. This movie was too modern, too Bourne.

    Casino Royale was a perfect update but QoS went too far.
  • edited January 18 Posts: 2,270
    That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.
    I have a slight preference for Quantum of Solace over Casino Royale. While Casino Royale is obviously a better movie, I think Quantum had a more elegant and stylized production design, more in line with what I like or hope to see in a Bond film.

    Personally I felt Casino Royale was more elegant than QOS in terms of its production design, and perhaps that’s down to Peter Lamont’s set design. QOS is perhaps the more stylistic of the two films, but the loss of Lamont is felt.
    To be honest, as much as I love the 60’s era of Bond and will forever cherish those films, some of the later Craig Bond films perhaps leaned a bit too much into that aesthetic for nostalgia purposes. That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.

    Yes but I think it was a reacction to QoS. This movie was too modern, too Bourne.

    Casino Royale was a perfect update but QoS went too far.

    You hit the nail on the head there. QOS was a bit too much for me personally.
  • Posts: 4,409
    I wholeheartedly share Zack Snyder's sentiments on the idea of a younger James Bond, expressing that it would be intriguing to witness the character at a formative age. Snyder's notion of exploring the humble roots and youthful traumas that shape Bond resonates with me. After witnessing Daniel Craig's Bond aging and contemplating retirement, a fresh take with a younger protagonist seems not only necessary but also an exciting avenue to rejuvenate the iconic franchise.

    From my viewpoint, the Daniel Craig-era has provided enough of the seasoned and mature Bond, making a departure towards a younger character essential for injecting vitality into the series. Moreover, it is crucial to capture the attention of the younger generation, particularly Gen Z, who may perceive Bond as an antiquated and dusty franchise. To maintain relevance and ignite enthusiasm among this demographic, a younger, more contemporary Bond is imperative.

    The decision to shift the focus to a younger Bond is not only about reaching a new audience but also about keeping the existing fan base engaged. Striking the right balance between appealing to the nostalgia of long-time fans and introducing a Bond that resonates with younger viewers is key to the franchise's continued success.

    I firmly believe that setting the film in the 1960s, would be an uninspired choice. To truly revitalise the series, it is essential to break away from the familiar and venture into unexplored territory. The idea of a more modern and innovative approach aligns with the need for a fresh narrative that captivates audiences.

    When contemplating potential actors for the role, Jacob Elordi and Harris Dickinson stand out to me as strong contenders. Their youthful energy, acting prowess, and ability to bring a contemporary edge to the character make them compelling choices for the iconic role. Embracing new talent is a step towards reinvigorating Bond and ensuring the franchise remains dynamic and appealing to a broad audience.

    lAMSnek.png
  • Posts: 4,162
    I think it goes without saying we’ll get a younger Bond than the last. Craig was after all pushing 50 by NTTD, and it was consciously about an older Bond.

    That said, I’m not sure if I want a ‘young’ Bond as such. I mean this in the sense that I don’t believe Bond, in any incarnation, is a ‘wunderkind’. Just logically Bond is an outlier compared to what would be a typical modern 00. Likely they’d be someone more like Nomi - younger overachievers, possibly with a background in the SAS which led them to the 00 section. They’re methodical and highly disciplined. Bond, with his background in the navy, his vices/risk taking, cynicism, and moreover his breadth of experience, would be a bit older, and likely has accumulated much more skills beyond Special Forces training. To me it’s more likely, and in some ways a bit more relatable, that he’d be a man of at least 33-34 while his fellow 00s are in their late 20s.

    That’s not to say the actual actor has to be that age, but they do have to come across as older, as does the character in terms of the script.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 18 Posts: 16,413
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think it goes without saying we’ll get a younger Bond than the last. Craig was after all pushing 50 by NTTD

    Pushing from the wrong direction too! :D
  • Posts: 1,993
    Introducing a younger actor to play Bond is inevitable. But I wish to see a seasoned Bond, not a neophyte making mistakes while learning to become an agent. Bond's personal history was effectively introduced in CR and then completely fouled in SP. A DN style of introduction of Bond will work fine for the next film: a younger Bond who's been on the job for several missions. Further delving into Bond's history is unnecessary.

    As far as visual callbacks, fine. But subtle, not excessive. I certainly hope for a casino scene, and of course a distinctive Bond car that is not the classic Aston nor a BMW.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 18 Posts: 3,152
    Luckily, MGW's pretty much established that we're not going to see a rookie Bond in his 20s: 'Bond's already a veteran, he's had some experience. He's a person who has been through the wars, so to speak. He's probably been in the SAS or something, he isn't some kid out of high school that you can bring in and start off - that's why it works for a thirty-something.'
    I'm on board with that. I'd like to see NewBond hit the ground running - do we really need an origin story or even to see him learning his trade? Anything new we do find out about him can arise from the particular story, as and when needed, no? So I hope that's still EON's thinking. Ok, MGW said it back in 2022, but hey, they haven't even thought about Bond 26 since so it should still stand, right? Cough...
  • Posts: 4,162
    Ironically MGW is slightly incorrect - Bond has a naval background, not an SAS one (as I said I think it's a subtle but telling aspect of his character, even if he's presumably done some sort of training under them, and I hope it's something they don't change any time soon. At the very very least it's something for the actor to think about as it's unlikely to be explored in the actual film). Otherwise I think he's right about everything else.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 18 Posts: 3,152
    Yes, indeed - that's why CraigBond's SBS experience suited his particular Bond so well. I'm not really up on special forces, etc, but I think the SAS and SBS do the same training until the point that the SAS guys have passed selection, at which point SBS guys carry on and have to do a whole load of additional naval/marine warfare training. It was an ideal background for EON to use as shorthand to emphasise just what a badass Craig's Bond was. Dunno if they'll maintain that background for the next Bond or put the emphasis on the intelligence work, etc, but they'll probably want him to have that kind of immediate cache and coolness, so maybe.
  • Posts: 6,709
    Wverybody keeps focusing on younger actors for a youner role that would suit larger production schedules and more years between films. Why not more actors in their 40s for less films each and with no coninuity between instalments?
  • Posts: 1,368
    Univex wrote: »
    Wverybody keeps focusing on younger actors for a youner role that would suit larger production schedules and more years between films. Why not more actors in their 40s for less films each and with no coninuity between instalments?


    Because the 3rd time is the charm.
  • Posts: 944
    You can have little flashbacks of him when he was a 33 y/o rookie. Bond is a mature man who gets assigned the top missions.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, indeed - that's why CraigBond's SBS experience suited his particular Bond so well. I'm not really up on special forces, etc, but I think the SAS and SBS do the same training until the point that the SAS guys have passed selection, at which point SBS guys carry on and have to do a whole load of additional naval/marine warfare training. It was an ideal background for EON to use as shorthand to emphasise just what a badass Craig's Bond was. Dunno if they'll maintain that background for the next Bond or put the emphasis on the intelligence work, etc, but they'll probably want him to have that kind of immediate cache and coolness, so maybe.

    Funnily enough I think the official bio didn't actually have him serve in the SBS, although he did train with them. He seems to have served in a special forces unit which I think is fictional, and perhaps named after Fleming's unit. It's a nicely done dossier.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_21_007_dossier2
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited January 18 Posts: 3,152
    Hey, good one, mtm - I read and re-read that CraigBond 'biography' many times back in the '00s, but I'd still forgotten over time and it was the SBS background yarn that'd stuck in my mind. Fallibility of memory and all that! There were stories a few years back that MI5 and MI6 do have their own 'special forces' units that they use for things like covert military assistance to foreign powers, insertion and extraction of intelligence agents, reconnaissance and intelligence gathering, etc - maybe that's what EON were thinking of when they were creating a new backstory for Dan's Bond?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Venutius wrote: »
    Hey, good one, mtm - I read and re-read that CraigBond 'biography' many times back in the '00s, but I'd still forgotten over time and it was the SBS background yarn that'd stuck in my mind. Fallibility of memory and all that! There were stories a few years back that MI5 and MI6 do have their own 'special forces' units that they use for things like covert military assistance to foreign powers, insertion and extraction of intelligence agents, reconnaissance and intelligence gathering, etc - maybe that's what EON were thinking of when they were creating a new backstory for Dan's Bond?

    Yeah I definitely had SBS lodged in my mind too; it was weird to read it back and realise it didn't actually say he served with them. The bit about him then going to DI is interesting and quite believable.
  • I like Quantum in most aspects but not the theme song or the opening car chase. Not a fan of choppy editing where you can't see what's actually happening. Save that for Bourne.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    To be honest, as much as I love the 60’s era of Bond and will forever cherish those films, some of the later Craig Bond films perhaps leaned a bit too much into that aesthetic for nostalgia purposes. That’s why personally I prefer the style of Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent QOS), to the latter three films. Craig’s first two films truly felt much more modern and not so retrofitted.

    I blame Mendes.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,044
    I like Quantum in most aspects but not the theme song or the opening car chase. Not a fan of choppy editing where you can't see what's actually happening. Save that for Bourne.

    I know of people not liking the theme song. I was once one of those people. But I've come to like it. But I'm surprised about the car chase. Because a lot of people like it. I like it a lot. Combined with Arnold's Time To Get Out, it's fast, stylish, brief and very kinetic....like all the action in the film. The build-up to the car chase, even looked like they were introducing a new Bond....with all the intercutting with the Aston Martin, Car parts, Bond's eye's, Bullets, Guns, Quick fade-outs, etc. It makes it all the more stylish. I've always wondered why Campbell didn't do the same for Craig's Bond in CR. Maybe as Dryden was using, the elevator, it intercuts with Bond's eyes and his hands.....maybe fixing his gun's silencer. Although, In GE, Campbell teased us a bit before revealing Brosnan's Bond and I liked how he did it.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited January 19 Posts: 735
    Feyador wrote: »
    Depends on what we mean by Bond films always 'reflecting their times' and whose understanding of such times we choose to embrace.

    Most of the examples above are thirty or more years old, when Bond was closer to his origins in the Cold War, and were safely uncontroversial for their largely North American and European audiences. To provide a colourful, exotic, politically uncontroversial backdrop to the world of the glamorous international spy.

    Since the end of the Cold War, the series have continued to reflect geopolitical developments and trends, take a look at the Brosnan era: GoldenEye is about post-soviet Russia (you have an unstable and weakened government that is on the verge of being overthrown by a military) and the dispersal of Cold War weaponry and their acquisition by criminal groups; this latter theme is again present in Tomorrow Never Dies (the pre-title sequence set in Russia that includes a weak post-Soviet Russian official who is not ready to launch an operation on his own territory); The World Is Not Enough continues to develop these themes and add the question of energy (the opening up of Central Asian countries and their opening towards the West with pipelines, etc); Die Another Day literally opens with Bond leading a commando mission in a hostile foreign country and here's what Matthew Field says about it in his book Some Kind of Hero:
    Inspiration was drawn from US president, Bill Clinton, who described the 38th Parallel, the strip of land dividing North and South Korea, better known as the demilitarized zone as the ‘the scariest place on earth.’ Remembered Wade, ‘We were all feeling the same about North Korea. It was a hot point in the world, the kind of country you don’t go into. It was a breeding ground for terrorists. Michael knew more about it than we did.

    While I agree all these cases may have been politically uncontroversial, it still shows that Bond movies were still very much about the world of their time. That's for global geopolitics, but you also have the Carver Media Group in TND that echoes the 24-hour news cycle and the evolution of media coverage started with the Gulf War.

    Still regarding TND, the movie is so much a product of its time that its story would have been totally different if the film was released ten years prior: China is shown as the new superpower against which the West risks being at war, something that wouldn't have happened in the 80s, it's obvious that China would have been replaced by the USSR. Let's not forget that this movie (and Bond 17 for the matter) was originally about the handover of Hong Kong and abandoned this geopolitical background because the creative team realised that by the time the film was released, the handover would have already taken place. So, again, through the 1990s, Bond films were the reflect of their times.

    This goes just as well for the Craig era. I have to find the quote, but I remember Mendes explaining that Skyfall reflected the world of intelligence after Julian Assange while Spectre reflected the world after Edward Snowden's revelations. Casino Royale obviously wouldn't have been the same if it was made before 9/11 (beyond the mention of the attacks, the whole plot about terrorism funding is something that was not in the news before) while Quantum of Solace continues on this trend of international terrorism, while the water supply issue is inspired by the Cochabamba Water Revolt. You also have US interference in foreign countries, something that became a particularly high-profile topic after the Iraq War (even if this type of problem in South America also echoes the 60s/70s).

    Forster said that "because Bond plays it real, I thought the political circumstances should be real too, even though Bond shouldn't be a political film". In my opinion, it's a good representation of what most Bond films are.

    Thank you, some very good, clear, thoughtful examples of a contemporary Bond situated geopolitically post-Cold War.

    Regarding North Korea, DAD kind of blew up in their faces, didn't it? I can only imagine the revenge enacted by real world Russian hackers today. Interestingly, the torture scenes at the beginning kind of anticipate real world CIA rendition and waterboarding.

    QOS captured something of first world exploitation of third world resources, and the CIA came off as convincingly nefarious, with a Bond uncertainly or ambivalently related to both. Unusually complicated and more Le Carré than Fleming, QOS mostly worked for me, well representing the ambiguities and divided loyalties of real world politics and the intelligence agencies that serve it; but I'm not sure it worked for the real world money and production people behind Bond. And most Bond fans seem to hate it, so what do I know.

    As a consequence, perhaps, the series retreated into nostaghia with SF. Unless we're meant to see Bardem as Assange, as you suggest, even in part. Someone perhaps more hero than villain for me. Ditto Snowden. If so, how are we to understand the series pivoting dramatically, even schizophrenically, with SP and its plot involving omniscient government surveillance and extrajudicial assassinations. With all the attention played to the Blofeld's brother aspect, most seem not to have paid it the attention it deserves.

    Perhaps such wariness may explain the accompanying special concentration on the Bond character himself during the Craig years. Rather than a sop to Craig's ego, as it’s so often regarded, I think it was a mostly smart and largely successful move as a new means of emphasis devoid the certainties of the past.

    For an excellent, mostly ensemble HBO-style 'prestige' spy series from France, and situated in the contemporary world, I heartily recommend Le Bureau des légendes. Lacks the superhero heroics of Bond, but still has plenty of drama, and a primary character not dissimilar to the loner, soulful Craig-Bond, played by Matthieu Kassovitz. You can find it under the title, The Bureau, with English subtitles. Bond could do worse than follow its example, except the demands of the box office would make it a non starter.
  • Feyador wrote: »
    As a consequence, perhaps, the series retreated into nostaghia with SF. Unless we're meant to see Bardem as Assange, as you suggest, even in part. Someone perhaps more hero than villain for me. Ditto Snowden. If so, how are we to understand the series pivoting dramatically, even schizophrenically, with SP and its plot involving omniscient government surveillance and extrajudicial assassinations. With all the attention played to the Blofeld's brother aspect, most seem not to have paid it the attention it deserves.
    Here's what Mendes said about it, back in 2015:
    There’s one shot at the end of Spectre of a Union Jack fluttering over Whitehall, which is rather ragged and has seen better days, which feels like England to me. Those are the places that I put what I feel, little moments where, well it’s still sad on some level, and yet we’re still here. You know we don’t have what we used to, and yet some of it remains. And M has a line, Ralph’s M has a line in Spectre you know when Andrew Scott’s C says to him, “Face it, you don’t matter anymore,” and M says, “Maybe I don’t but something has to.” And that’s the way I feel about this country sometimes, and a lot of that has gone in there along with my concerns about post-Assange world that we live in in Skyfall and we were obsessing about three years ago, and the post-Snowden world we live in now, which is why we put all the stuff about surveillance into this movie. So you know there’s enough I think, I hope, of the real political landscape to inform it, but at the same time you have to, you’re telling a wonderful piece of escapism too and you have to embrace that part of it.
    https://www.bafta.org/media-centre/transcripts/bafta-a-life-in-pictures-sam-mendes

    So I don't think we're meant to see Bardem as a direct mirror of Assange, but more as a symptom of a world turned upside down by Assange's revelations and political use of internet. Moreover, even if he considers that these films must be pieces of escapism, Mendes recognises that they have a political dimension and that they reflect the world which is contemporary to them.

    Regarding Quantum of Solace, while it may have felt more Le Carré than Fleming, I don't think it has much to do with the film's mixed reception. I have the impression that the film was criticised more for its editing, its action scenes, the overall rhythm and the lack of certain iconic Bond elements. One could even say that, by being too focused on the action, the film does not have time to develop its antagonists and its geopolitical dimension that thus become fuzzy.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Regarding Quantum of Solace, while it may have felt more Le Carré than Fleming, I don't think it has much to do with the film's mixed reception. I have the impression that the film was criticised more for its editing, its action scenes, the overall rhythm and the lack of certain iconic Bond elements. One could even say that, by being too focused on the action, the film does not have time to develop its antagonists and its geopolitical dimension that thus become fuzzy.

    Bingo. It’s a movie that feels like it has no time to stop and smell the roses, which is an aspect I think is vital to Bond.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited January 20 Posts: 16,413
    Yeah, considering the script process was famously unfinished, the story is actually pretty solid and quite smart at points and has something to say. It's really the direction which lets it down, he's trying to compress too much.

    I was watching Andrew Ellard's video essay on it again the other day, and he suggested that the film would be better if the gunbarrel opened on the Aston arriving in Sienna, Bond getting White out of the boot, the interrogation, chase after Mitchell, and start the titles on Bond shooting at camera and killing Mitchell. Because then you have a setup, you have some stakes, you're drawn into the story and the following action scene means something. Fun though it is as an isolated bit of action, the car chase doesn't do any that and for my money just doesn't work as an opening of a movie- you can't skip that stuff when you're making a film. We don't know White's in the boot; there's no stakes or any character story there. The M/Mitchell scene has tension and stakes because we're introduced to them.

    The climax of the car chase hinges on Bond pulling out a massive gun which, if you haven't watched Casino Royale in two years, you'd have no idea was even there and would feel a cheat.
Sign In or Register to comment.