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Is Pierce Brosnan really all that bad ??

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  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Timothy played Flemings Bond, no messing around.

    Without a doubt. What did you think of Brosnan's The World Is Not Enough performance. He kind of took the Dalton approach for that one.

    I've never heard of Dalton and Brosnan being compared in this way before.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    There was certainly some approach going on with Brosnan for TWINE, but I wouldn't say it was Dalton influenced.
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0752.jpg
    http://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-World-is-not-Enough/images/The-World-is-not-Enough-0752.jpg
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    There was certainly some approach going on with Brosnan for TWINE, but I wouldn't say it was Dalton influenced.
    The-World-is-not-Enough-0752.jpg
    http://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-World-is-not-Enough/images/The-World-is-not-Enough-0752.jpg

    I'd say he was inspired by The Joker based on that still - something I can't defend.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I think pierce needed better directors who could have helped him create a more distinct take on the character.

    Connery without Terrence Young would not have been anywhere near as good.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think pierce needed better directors who could have helped him create a more distinct take on the character.

    That's true to a degree. He was unlucky because only Campbell was really worthy during his tenure. Having said that, Campbell should have been enough, as I'm sure there was plenty of discussion and strategy about how he should present himself in the preparation for GE after the long hiatus.

    Moreover, I don't think anyone told him to overact during the dramatic moments in TWINE (that link I posted above summarizes my opinion of his dramatic acting skills as Bond perfectly). He is to blame for that, because he did that many times during his tenure (i.e making funny faces as some kind of proxy for theatrical acting heft).
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    I'm not going to argue with you except to say a good (or just half decent) director would have asked for another take and told him his performance was not good enough.

    Just imagine what Dalton or Craig might have done with some of those scenes. Either actor with Morceaux would have been electric.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    Just imagine what Dalton or Craig might have done with some of those scenes. Either actor with Morceaux would have been electric.

    I just did, and you're right. Either of them in that scene and with Marceau in general would have done a superb job.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Brosnan fans don't like to admit it but it's very clear that with TWINE EON were trying to give Pierce the opportunity to do some 'proper' acting. When he choked and screwed up TWINE, EON were basically left with no option but to go down the DAD route. The rest is history. But the truth is that Pierce was very much the author of his own demise. Babs would never say anything bad about Pierce but it's clear she was bored of working with such a limited actor.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I couldn't agree more with your last post.
  • patbpatb
    edited July 2015 Posts: 4,617
    The responsibility of the director has to end somewhere. Craig was respected for his performance in QoS despite their being clear issues with the script and direction. If PB was not good enough in certain scenes, you cant blame the director for not saying "Pierce , can you act a little better" (perhaps they did, don't forget, we are seeing the best scene, he could have been worse in the out takes?)
    PS Sophie M is a great actress and "hot" as hell. The potential chemistry between her and DC would have been great, we can only imagine.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I basically agree and this has always been my main argument against Pierce - that the actor ultimately has to take responsibility for their own performance.

    The only thing that makes me stand up for Pierce is that I know that when he's worked with good directors, like Boorman and Polanski, he has turned in decent performances. So while I think Brosnan should bear ultimate responsibility for his poor acting, I do think that better directors could have got something better from him.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Fair point. Michael Douglas has always given credit for his oscar winning performance in Wall Street to the director who really pushed and pushed him to bring out a great performance.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    And what would Hayden Christensen have been without George Lucas?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    I dislike Brosnan.
    ...No, I don't really; I was just saying that in an attempt to be cool. B-) :))

    Seriously, Dalton WAS Bond... but Brosnan did a good fun action hero version IMO.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    And what would Hayden Christensen have been without George Lucas?

    Certainly not the brilliant and celebrated award winning actor he ain't today, @Thunderfinger. :-)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    Birdleson wrote: »
    They were both great at times, and both flawed.
    Well, the only flawless Bond was Connery in DN if you ask me.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think pierce needed better directors who could have helped him create a more distinct take on the character.

    Connery without Terrence Young would not have been anywhere near as good.

    Without Young the whole franchise might not have been a success and got off to such a stylish groundbreaking start.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,425
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think pierce needed better directors who could have helped him create a more distinct take on the character.

    Connery without Terrence Young would not have been anywhere near as good.

    Without Young the whole franchise might not have been a success and got off to such a stylish groundbreaking start.

    Yes we owe a huge amount to Young. Crazy that so much talent came together in one place at one time -Barry, Adams, Young, Connery. Just incredible. And some people think Dr No is boring and SF represents the heights of Bond movie making.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Brosnan put the Bond franchise twice on a new level of success. With GE and with DAD.
    He obviously did something right and at least in Europe he was highly popular.
    I think it has to do with the generations. People who "grew up" to Brosnan's Bond will always like him and his movies.
    Today's youth (up to 30) I guess, has grown up to the Craig movies (or is still growing up) and naturally finds the Brosnan style antiquated or even bad.

    Once Craig will be compared to the next Bond actor, Craig will be there where Brosnan is now, it is a natural cycle.

    And to answer the OP question: No Brosnan wasn't bad at all, he was very good, GE was perfect for him and would have never worked with Dalton or Craig (had they been the right age then).

    Brosnan will end up having a broad following as Moore does once enough time has passed. The Craig fans who are the loudest in bashing Brosnan are in the vast majority on the forums. In real life Brosnan is as liked as Moore or Dalton.
    Everybody in my age-range in my surroundings still is very fond of Brosnan, many very nice memories to our youth or young adultness are linked to GE, TND, TWINE and DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,829
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Everybody in my age-range in my surroundings still is very fond of Brosnan, many very nice memories to our youth or young adultness are linked to GE, TND, TWINE and DAD.
    I concur.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited August 2015 Posts: 5,131
    I'm 33. I was 13 when GE came out. My opinion is Brosnan is the worst Bond actor so far. I was comparing his films to Connery's, Dalton's, Moores and Lazenby's efforts back then.....his films were all inferior and he is too 'middle of the road' Bond. Neither as tough as Sean or as suave as Roger. Bland, James Bland. Craig is great and has taken the character traits back to Fleming, not parody.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    There will always be an exception to every rule.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I'm 33. I was 13 when GE came out. My opinion is Brosnan is the worst Bond actor so far. I was comparing his films to Connery's, Dalton's, Moores and Lazenby's efforts back then.....his films were all inferior and he is too 'middle of the road' Bond. Neither as tough as Sean or as suave as Roger. Bland, James Bland. Craig is great and has taken the character traits back to Fleming, not parody.

    I like you.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Well there are quite a few people who would call Craig James Bland. Just saying.

    In my opinion all 6 actors did a fine job as Bond.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited August 2015 Posts: 5,131
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I'm 33. I was 13 when GE came out. My opinion is Brosnan is the worst Bond actor so far. I was comparing his films to Connery's, Dalton's, Moores and Lazenby's efforts back then.....his films were all inferior and he is too 'middle of the road' Bond. Neither as tough as Sean or as suave as Roger. Bland, James Bland. Craig is great and has taken the character traits back to Fleming, not parody.

    I like you.

    Ha ha. Thanks.

    The only people who call Craig bland are the stupid reporters who slated him upon casting for CR. They were proven wrong. Yes, none of the actors have been bad. It's just my opinion that Brozzer was the worst.....the scripts did let him down though, I will certainly admit that. On a positive point Brozzer did have international appeal to an 'easy going/ casual' audience and kept the franchise alive in GE. Although I would love it I don't think a 1995 audience/ Eon execs would have accepted Craig, they craved something more 'middle of the road and safe' after Dalton (who was great but didn't meet internationally box office targets).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited August 2015 Posts: 9,020
    If I have to rank by acting performance Brosnan might actually end up No 4 in my book.
    But 3 of his movies are in my Top 10. I just love them.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Fair play, each to their own. I'm the opposite which keeps these forums alive. I'm a Connery/ Craig/ Terence Young/ Fleming novel purist.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited August 2015 Posts: 11,139
    I think Brosnan's main issue was that he never allowed himself to live in the moment of being the character. He's not a bad actor but I think because he wanted the role so badly he put too much pressure on himself to really make the role his own. Look at his performances in roles outside of Bond post GE; he's done very well and in some cases magnificently well but with Bond, it what like, chasing the girl of his dreams for so long and when he got her, the pressure of pleasing and satisfying her sort of backfired to the point he culminated prematurely or just couldn't quite get it up.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    suavejmf wrote: »
    The only people who call Craig bland are the stupid reporters who slated him upon casting for CR.

    I know people who don't rate him and find him boring. I don't agree with them, but I respect their opinion and understand where they're coming from. People want different things from Bond. It doesn't mean they're any less right or wrong than any other fan. There's a definite pomposity inherent in a lot of pro-Craig comments and threads.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There are a lot of "righteous" opinions around.
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