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Comments

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I like both films, but I prefer QoS. I find I watch it more than any other Bond film. I just love its lean mean pared down quality. Daniel Craig just owns the film! Great performance, and with excellent support to boot.

    I think it's Craig's best and most Bondian performance.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,425
    I agree. QoS possibly Craigs best performance.

    One of the major issues with the Craig era is that the films are too long. All apart from QOS. I tried to watch CR recently and frankly got bored. The Miami airport action is pointless padding. I Sincerely don't understand why people think Campbell is so amazing - give me John Glen any day.

    I quite enjoyed SP but have no burning desire to go back and watch it again. SF is the worst for me. As others Have noted, after the Island a rather promising start just evaporated into incohetent tedium.

    Plenty of Other Bond films flag in the final act, but SF goes on for so long it feels like an eternity. Endless chasing around a boringly shot and dreary looking London (looks like a dull TV cop show for large parts of the film) and then the terminally unexciting finale in dreary looking Scotland.

    i think the visual qualities of this film, along with the soundtrack, are grossly overrated.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Also Roberto Schaefer's cinematography for QOS is on par with Roger Deakins' work in SF in my book.

    Not for me. Some of the compositions in QoS are great, but SF is on another level. Deakins' lighting is outstanding.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Deakins is above everyone else in the series. I suspect he was a huge part of the success SF had.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Deakins is above everyone else in the series. I suspect he was a huge part of the success SF had.

    I would agree.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Deakins is great, but they all have their strengths. Finding someone who shoots locations like Ted Moore is a near impossible mission, for instance. We'll never see something quite like him again. It's one thing to make a shot look pretty, but to have everything the frame encases come alive is another entirely.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    Deakins is great, but they all have their strengths. Finding someone who shoots locations like Ted Moore is a near impossible mission, for instance. We'll never see something quite like him again. It's one thing to make a shot look pretty, but to have everything the frame encases come alive is another entirely.

    I would take Ted Moore's Istanbul over Deakins' any day.

    Quite frankly, I find Istanbul very dull looking in Skyfall.
  • GBFGBF
    edited January 2017 Posts: 3,197
    Skyfall by a country mile. Well Skyfall has many plot holes and insane plot elements (Silva's escape). But overall it is a very stylish and well paced films. It doesn't make much sense but at least we have much more interesting characters, less stupid globe trotting and more Bondian stuff. QoS does not feel like a Bond film for me. It is an ordinary action film with some nice moments but hardly any surprising elements or suspense. There is neither espionage nor any plot twist nor any obscure character in the film. No character is introduced very well, nor does any villain have great dialouge. Honestly, I don't care about any of the characters in this film. OK, Camille is a tragic young woman but do you you really care for her tragedy? I don't. Compare her to Melina in FYEO where you really experience how she must feel after the sudden death of her parents. Like so very much in QoS, the important plot points are only told but not shown on screen:

    1) The killing of Camille's parents
    2) Greene being a smart and menacing character
    3) Quantum doing stuff instead of talking about stuff they had done.
    4) The conversation between Bond and Greene in the end. There is no real encounter between the two.
    5) No visualisation of the water controll plot.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2017 Posts: 15,718
    Even if you rank QOS at 24/24, I don't think anyone can deny that Giancarlo Giannini's performance in that film is one of the very best in the franchise, even when including Bond performances in the mix. SF is a far better made film than QOS, and so are plenty of the films in the cannon, but QOS is one of the most rewatchable for me.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    So it wasn't the cinematography that initially turned me off of QoS, but something else. I just can't put my finger on what it was. Perhaps it's because it just wasn't CR (there was a lack of romance and class to the dialogue).
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,617
    As Bond fans, I think we get bogged down in the detail . In terms of which is the better film, SF wins by a mile IMHO. It is very conventional with a classic, 3 part structure, good character developtment, deeper themes that dont detract from the action,memorable dialogue strong supporting charcters and a classic style of ending with great emotional depth. It's obviously not perfect (what movie is?), the faults with QoS are well documented and, despite the recent thrust to re-visit it, as an overall package, it just does not work.
    PS re cinematography, whilst appreciating it, in terms of priorities, its pretty meaningless if you have no emotional connection with the characters and their situation. It just sinks to the level of a classic pop video .
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2017 Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    You need a trip to the opticians, mate. On a technical level it isn't even close.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    You need a trip to the opticians, mate. On a technical level it isn't even close.
    My eyes are fine, but thank you for the medical diagnosis. I don't recall expressing a technical point of view. Just an opinion, which I'm quite entitled to on this forum.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    You need a trip to the opticians, mate. On a technical level it isn't even close.
    My eyes are fine, but thank you for the medical diagnosis. I don't recall expressing a technical point of view. Just an opinion, which I'm quite entitled to on this forum.

    Just saying it isn't better.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Even though I prefer Skyfall, I must admit that the basic concept of QoS was much more original and that the basic story was much more interesting than the one in Skyfall. Honestly, Skyfall's plot is pretty thin and does not really add anything new to the franchise. However, the execution was pretty fine. In QoS it is rather the other way around: creative concept but poor execution.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    You need a trip to the opticians, mate. On a technical level it isn't even close.
    My eyes are fine, but thank you for the medical diagnosis. I don't recall expressing a technical point of view. Just an opinion, which I'm quite entitled to on this forum.

    Just saying it isn't better.
    I never said it was, technically.

    I do personally prefer the day time scenes (particularly in Bolivia/Haiti/Italy or wherever they filmed it) in QoS to any daytime scenes in SF, which seem a bit monotone and washed out (in that SP way) in some instances, particularly in Istanbul and on the boat to Silva's island. When the bloody camera stays still, QoS is visually impressive to me.

    That night sequence during the Greene Planet fundraiser is superb as well, again imho.

    That's not taking anything away from SF or Deakins, who did magnificent work.
  • NSGWNSGW London
    Posts: 299
    GBF wrote: »
    Even though I prefer Skyfall, I must admit that the basic concept of QoS was much more original and that the basic story was much more interesting than the one in Skyfall. Honestly, Skyfall's plot is pretty thin and does not really add anything new to the franchise. However, the execution was pretty fine. In QoS it is rather the other way around: creative concept but poor execution.

    Spot on.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Quantum of Solace has been the last enjoyable Bond film so far for me. It is a film that shows how to include artistic moments into a Bond film without getting pretentious.

    Skyfall on the other hand is nice enough on the surface but delivers nothing more than an anti-Bond with Joe Everyman being depressed and traumatised about his youth.

    Also Roberto Schaefer's cinematography for QOS is on par with Roger Deakins' work in SF in my book. David Arnold's score is a million times better than the elevator music Thomas Newman spits out and not a single character in SF comes close to Giancarlo Gianninni's Mathis.

    Yes, you are one after my own heart.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    One thing about QoS's cinematography that's really strong is its color palette. The visuals have earthy tones that fit perfectly with a plot all about the environment, and on that level the look and heart of the film meet.

    Deakins is great, nobody will deny that, but I don't think SF is such an easy winner. I like QoS because it doesn't strive to be a blockbuster looking feature; it's got a 70s feeling of rough and tumble that fits with the journey Bond is on. The frames are very introspective and melancholic at times, like when Bond is on the plane or holding Mathis when he dies. The shots really hold on these characters as they face hell, and the performances allow you to feel it too. The visuals help to support the performances in this way, and make QoS an ever stronger character piece.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    doubleoego wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Quantum of Solace has been the last enjoyable Bond film so far for me. It is a film that shows how to include artistic moments into a Bond film without getting pretentious.

    Skyfall on the other hand is nice enough on the surface but delivers nothing more than an anti-Bond with Joe Everyman being depressed and traumatised about his youth.

    Also Roberto Schaefer's cinematography for QOS is on par with Roger Deakins' work in SF in my book. David Arnold's score is a million times better than the elevator music Thomas Newman spits out and not a single character in SF comes close to Giancarlo Gianninni's Mathis.

    Yes, you are one after my own heart.

    Very well said, couldn't agree more with that assessment.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    I don't think anything in SF comes even close to these scenes:

    - Aston vs Alfa chase
    - Palio scene
    - "teachers on sabbatical"
    - Tosca scene
    - visiting Mathis
    - Mathis and Bond about what is keeping them awake
    - final scene in Kazan
  • Posts: 19,339
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't think anything in SF comes even close to these scenes:

    - Aston vs Alfa chase
    - Palio scene
    - "teachers on sabbatical"
    - Tosca scene
    - visiting Mathis
    - Mathis and Bond about what is keeping them awake
    - final scene in Kazan

    I would add the Greene/Beam/Elvis/Felix on the plane scene...i love that scene,the performances and the atmosphere,discussing their plans and Bond....
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I also thought Mathis' death was better handled and a more emotional punch to the gut than M's.
  • Posts: 486
    bondjames wrote: »
    With SF, the night photography really lifts it. I suspect this may be on account of the use of digital cameras by Deakins. I agree that the day work is average at best, and that Istanbul in particular looked far better in FRWL.

    It's funny, but when I first watched SF, I was blown away by the cinematography. What a step up from QoS, I thought. However, with time and more watches, I realize that QoS is as good if not better in many cases (particularly the day time work, which has a real old school panavision technicolour look to it).

    So it wasn't the cinematography that initially turned me off of QoS, but something else. I just can't put my finger on what it was. Perhaps it's because it just wasn't CR (there was a lack of romance and class to the dialogue).

    With the exception of SP I'd say the cinematography of the Craig films has been exquisite. The grittiness of CR, the sheen of QOS and the nightmare hellish inferno of the Skyfall lodge ablaze and Craig's run across the lake. I agree though that the Instanbul PTS looks incredibly dull and washed out.

    I was always impressed by the QOS cinematography from the first cinema showing. There's such a sharp clarity to the film. I like the Kubrik like framing of the brief shot in which Greene and his men stand off against Bond in the opera house and the overexposed and yet ominous desert shots. The panning shot of Camille swinging off from the roof to the veranda of Hotel Perla De Las Dunas is a great little shot.
  • Posts: 19,339
    My feeling on Craigbonds 4 adventures are that ,ok CR & QOS work either as stand-alones or as a two-parter,which is clever.
    QOS can be watched as a stand-alone quite easily,and the rookie gunbarrel at the start of CR and the gunbarrel at the end of QOS brings that story to a close,if you view it as a 2-parter.

    SF to me,wil ALWAYS be a stand-alone film,there is NO link per se,to Silva and the other 2 films...i enjoy it so much more if i see it as a stand-alone as i did originally.


    SP is the only dodgy entry and now leaves EON with a hell of a lot of hard work to do re BOND25 ...personally for me we need a stand-alone before Blofeld comes back.

    If Waltz doesnt want to wait then so be it ,Blofeld,on screen ,has always been played by different actor in each film in the past so thats not a problem,and he should be put on ice until BOND26.

    Whether its Craig having a last film (personally i think he should go now ,use the DB5 and Madeleine as his swann-song ,pardon the pun he he ),or BOND7 arrives,a new stand-alone film is in order.


  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    barryt007 wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I don't think anything in SF comes even close to these scenes:

    - Aston vs Alfa chase
    - Palio scene
    - "teachers on sabbatical"
    - Tosca scene
    - visiting Mathis
    - Mathis and Bond about what is keeping them awake
    - final scene in Kazan

    I would add the Greene/Beam/Elvis/Felix on the plane scene...i love that scene,the performances and the atmosphere,discussing their plans and Bond....

    Yeah, I love that scene too.
  • Posts: 3,336
    At the moment i prefer Skyfall by quite a big margin, as my last viewing of QoS was very dissapointing.
  • Definitely Skyfall. A much more suspenseful film with a better villain.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I also thought Mathis' death was better handled and a more emotional punch to the gut than M's.
    Oh definitely. Made me cry. M's death just made me sad.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I also thought Mathis' death was better handled and a more emotional punch to the gut than M's.
    Bond crying at M's death made me cringe. The Mathis death was a bit cold, but it was done well. I really thought Kurylenko nailed that scene.
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