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Where would you rank SPECTRE? (no spoilers)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    It's an awesome first half that descents into Bond tropes that today's audience find contrived. I like Bond so I can accept it, but this story loses its steam.
    That's the easiest & laziest comment I ever hear these days. I mean, it's really REALLY old now, okay? Can we retire it in favour of actual thoughtful criticism? Please?
    :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It's becoming so par for the course these days with Bond films though. I think GE may have been the last one to really stay decent right up to the very end, including interesting finale.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That is another one that is awful from start to finish.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    2001 had a great first half, then it fell apart with all the impressionistic stuff.
    Rocky had a great first half, then it turned into one long fight scene.
    Blade Runner had a fantastic start, then the hero had to be saved by the villain & it got all silly.
    SPECTRE started out fine, then we had all that mind-games stuff, and Bond's character development and junk..

    Hey- this is cool! You can apply it to ANY film that you personally had problems with!
  • ChampionAlonsoChampionAlonso
    edited February 2016 Posts: 389
    I like Spectre much more than the not bad but highly overrated 2001 and Blade Runner, both of them are a bit boring. However, I agree with the general consensus, SP and DAD first acts are clearly superior to the rest of the movie. The main difference for me between Brosnan´s 4th movie and Craig´s 4th is that the stupid ideas and poor visuals of DAD second half (nearly) ruined the whole experience.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It is still in my top ten. Very enjoyable Bond film, splendid actors, well executed.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's becoming so par for the course these days with Bond films though. I think GE may have been the last one to really stay decent right up to the very end, including interesting finale.

    SF did. And QoS' conclusion may have been its best part. In fact, I think the endings of TWINE, TND and GE were all quite good, not to mention LTK and TLD.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Perilagu_Khan wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's becoming so par for the course these days with Bond films though. I think GE may have been the last one to really stay decent right up to the very end, including interesting finale.

    SF did. And QoS' conclusion may have been its best part. In fact, I think the endings of TWINE, TND and GE were all quite good, not to mention LTK and TLD.
    I actually do like the SF ending, although I know a lot of people don't. It's gotten better for me with every rewatch, although I didn't like it in the theatre (the Home Alone element stood out the first time).

    I'm not too keen on the QoS finale only because of the way the hotel explosion conveniently pushes everything forward. It was just a little too convenient that it went off like that. This is why I didn't like the 'homage' (if that's what it was) during the Blofeld lair escape in SP either. The epilogue confrontation with Yusef is first class though.

    I wasn't too happy with the endings in TND (too machine gunnish for me), TWINE (the acting more than anything), and TLD (I found Afghanistan dull apart from the fight with Necros, although very ambitious in scale with a superb score, and the gunfight with Whittaker was a bit cartoonish).

    I did like LTK's ending very much though. The personal angle gave it an edge. Same with GE.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2016 Posts: 10,592
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    It's an awesome first half that descents into Bond tropes that today's audience find contrived. I like Bond so I can accept it, but this story loses its steam.

    Isn't that the case with a lot of movies, not just Bond? Story takes a back seat in the second half a lot of the time ever since action movies became blockbuster movies.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.
    Agreed. I thought it was more an homage to Pierce Brosnan's movie Live Wire. (Hydro toxin in other parts of the world) where He fashioned weapons and death traps out of various appliances.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,045
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.

    As if Home Alone invented that type of finale

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,198
    Murdock wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.

    I don't mind the ending. I thought it was quiet good and suspensefull. It also had a surprise in M's death. The main problem I had with Skfall was the inconsistent villain's plan. Like Oberhauser Silva does not show up for a very long time and his evil plan is not really convincing. He could have easily killed M. Instead of that he made everything very complicated and his escape plan was completely unbelievable. There are also many similarities to TWINE and GE. But in both films I thought the villain's motivation had been more convincing and consistent.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    edited February 2016 Posts: 489
    vzok wrote: »
    TellyBlofeld wrote: »
    It's an awesome first half that descents into Bond tropes that today's audience find contrived. I like Bond so I can accept it, but this story loses its steam.

    Isn't that the case with a lot of movies, not just Bond? Story takes a back seat in the second half a lot of the time ever since action movies became blockbuster movies.

    I agree. I did not have the movie, but noticed its flaws.

    It's a special film like CR or SF that can maintain that momentum, especially the same director, but I still enjoyed this. Just not as good as the two mentioned above, in my opinion.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited February 2016 Posts: 5,080
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.

    To be honest, the first thing I thought when watching this sequence for the first time was "this is going a bit McCaulay Caulkin for my liking".
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think the A Team and MacGyver used to do this sort of thing in the past too....to death, which may be why some folks had a problem with it. Like I said, I felt it the first time I saw the film, but on every subsequent rewatch it has gotten much better, primarily because of Mendes direction (I love how they film Sylva's helicopter turning from above when Bond starts firing at it as an example), Deakin's photography, the lighting at night (Apocalypse Now), & the acting by all.
  • TellyBlofeldTellyBlofeld
    Posts: 489
    There's some beautiful, impressive stuff in SF that are in the first half of SP, in my opinion.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    I think the A Team and MacGyver used to do this sort of thing in the past too....to death, which may be why some folks had a problem with it. Like I said, I felt it the first time I saw the film, but on every subsequent rewatch it has gotten much better, primarily because of Mendes direction (I love how they film Sylva's helicopter turning from above when Bond starts firing at it as an example), Deakin's photography, the lighting at night (Apocalypse Now), & the acting by all.

    Yeah, the cinematography is stunning. I never had a problem with the finale, really. I had one minor quibble; the contrived callback to the psychoanalysis at MI6 and two major quibbles; the DB5's gadget show and Bond's 'deep water' line. The whole Home Alone thing never bothered me, it felt to me like a viewer afterthought that snowballed. Other than that, it's pretty original and I applaud it for that. It trumps the relatively generic QoS ending. I think CR, SF and SP have all offered up something visually interesting.

    I'm aware some really loathe the SP ending, but I find it suitably bizarre and visually arresting. It takes the generic 'blowing up of the villain's base' and subverts it, making it a piece of piss and a precursor to the real ending. I like that, the same way I like SF's efforts to subvert the classic finale by having it take place on Bond's patch.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'm aware some really loathe the SP ending, but I find it suitably bizarre and visually arresting. It takes the generic 'blowing up of the villain's base' and subverts it, making it a piece of piss and a precursor to the real ending.
    I completely agree here!
    =D>
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    I'm aware some really loathe the SP ending, but I find it suitably bizarre and visually arresting. It takes the generic 'blowing up of the villain's base' and subverts it, making it a piece of piss and a precursor to the real ending. I like that, the same way I like SF's efforts to subvert the classic finale by having it take place on Bond's patch.
    I really have to watch it again before I can comment. It didn't do much for me in the theatre, but perhaps I'll have a different view of it on the small screen. I know I didn't like the MI6 building part one bit (including hanging display photos etc.), but the boat chase on the Thames and capture of Blofeld was very well filmed and cinematic.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,521
    I'm neutral on the controversial ending of SP. As for SF, the finale for me is great, even though many say it's too 'Home Alone'-ish.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    Need to watch the film again to get a clearer idea, I would put it 15th and below. I do have major issues with Spectre though I would put it third in the Craig era, prefered it to Skyfall.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    Posts: 2,483
    jake24 wrote: »
    I'm so sick of hearing that "Home Alone" nonsense. It's a great scene.

    Agreed. Silly, lazy criticism.

  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    edited February 2016 Posts: 2,483
    Watched SP for the first time last night on the telly and have ranked it No. 12. That is surprisingly low for me. I thought it could possibly slot in as high as No. 6, but no dice. I think the fact that it was my fourth viewing in four months may have been a big part of the problem.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited February 2016 Posts: 1,984
    Still somewhere around the middle for me. Give me any film below my #16 and I can definitely give you reasoning for SP's superiority, but give me any higher film than #14 on my list and I can give you even more definitive reasoning for why SP is no match for that film.

    Upon rewatch (and revisiting a few other Bond films I was tossing up) there's something about SP that just doesn't feel strong enough to step up into the top ten, IMO. Or rather, there's nothing strong enough to propel the film into the upper echelons.

    It's sort of like LALD where it's bizzare and has this strange form of dynamicism, but just about everything that's good is countered by something that's bad, so I'm can't bring myself to raise those two above the #14-#16 area, and I tend to rotate them around that area too.

  • berdodudeberdodude california
    Posts: 2
    I am not sure it would crack my top 12. Not that I didn't like it's just that there are other elements in other bond films that I like better. The torture sequence in CR is far superior for example.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    Yes I think Spectre's main problem is that is derivative, taking aspects from just about every other Bond film... so everything Spectre does, another film has done better...
  • The007SwedeThe007Swede
    edited February 2016 Posts: 127
    Just saw SP on blu ray and unfortunately all concerns from my first viewing got confirmed. The action is not really interesting at all (except for the train fight which is great), Blofeld doesn't work for me and worst of all I think the film lacks in pacing and momentum. It feels unnecessarily long and drags quite a few times., One of the few Bond movies I've had problems staying awake to while watching. Massive disappointment after CR & SF which are both in my personal top 3. Would probably rank SP at around 19-20.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    The007Swede wrote: »
    Just saw SP on blu ray and unfortunately all concerns from my first viewing got confirmed. The action is not really interesting at all (except for the train fight which is great), Blofeld doesn't work for me and worst of all I think the film lacks in pacing and momentum. It feels unnecessarily long and drags quite a few times., One of the few Bond movies I've had problems staying awake to while watching. Massive disappointment after CR & SF which are both in my personal top 3. Would probably rank SP at around 19-20.

    I've only seen it once, hoping to get it on Blu when it's released here in the UK. But on that first viewing the film seemed to whizz by for me, I was gripped. Certainly more so than with TFA which felt slow as I could tell where it was going.
  • The007SwedeThe007Swede
    edited February 2016 Posts: 127
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    I've only seen it once, hoping to get it on Blu when it's released here in the UK. But on that first viewing the film seemed to whizz by for me, I was gripped. Certainly more so than with TFA which felt slow as I could tell where it was going.

    Each to their own,. I actually thought TFA went by pretty quickly even if didn't love the film. I usually don't have a problem with slow movies (for example Bridge of Spies & Sicario were my two favorite movies last year, both could be considered slow) if they manage to invest me in the story and characters. That is where I feel SP failed and what made it drag for me.
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