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You haven't been around here long enough to know this, but I've always been fighting in CR's corner after it was the major Bond film to propel me to being a fan of this series. I've never loved a Bond film more, though the Young films with Connery are right there with it. It was my #1 Bond after I'd seen all the films and it remains to this day as it has nearly all the best elements of what I expect in a film. Perfect PTS, title design, choreography, Bond girl, Bond ally, locations, cinematography, just all class. And Dan gives what is my favorite Bond performance, with a script that gives him the ability to show his amazing range while also being a great Fleming adaptation that improves on the original in many ways.
Your concerns about the era are those I hear a lot from some, but I don't entirely disagree either. I think the era peaked immediately with CR, simply because it's that good, and while that may disappoint some I would rather have a gigantic peak than an era that barely rose at all. That being said, I've loved every Craig film, though it took me a while to see what QoS had to offer because I expected CR 2.0, and I've devoted a lot of time to writing film essays about these movies that have made me extremely satisfied. There's just so much to them, a lot to say on a narrative or thematic level and their technical achievements have returned the series to a kind of cinematic and operatic style that I've been overjoyed to see.
I hope I and a few others can turn you to our side regarding QoS, as I started an appreciation thread on this forum many years back that has since converted a lot of people who hated QoS into QoS lovers. It's one of my happiest achievements here, so maybe with time your opinion will change on the film as well. For me I love how stripped back it is, how it feels more in touch with a Fleming novel at times and I hold that it is one of the best Bond scripts we've got, especially in relation to the dialogue. I love that we got to have a follow up to CR that showed Bond mourning and getting over Vesper while going through the stages of grief, as it feels like the lost Bond story Fleming never wrote after his 1953 Casino Royale. The way Bond is written in it and how the story plays out, with him denying his care for Vesper until he finally sees her as a victim and forgives her, is extremely powerful to me and I think it could only end that way if Fleming had written it too.
Yeah but we're stuck on dial up so it cuts off every time Satan wants to make a phone call.
I certainly don't want to go down in history on this forum as "the guy who hated QoS".
Usually I don't even engage in "hating on" things. QoS simply disappointed me to a greater extend and it's the only Bond film that did so. Therefore I may have sounded too negative about it.
One of my mottos in life is: Let them hate, just make sure they spell your name right.
I am unprejudiced, in the least I try, and when I watch QoS a second time I will be open-minded.
Ironically, the random app on my phone has indeed chosen QoS to be my next Bond to see. That will happen probably late this evening after the festivities or then tomorrow on the 25th.
Can you please direct me to your appreciation thread of QoS? Thank you.
Re SPECTRE: I have it just above the 80s block in my ranking. On spot 18. But everything outside my Top 12 can change considerably I'd think as I have seen a majority of the films once only still. Who knows where SP or other films will end up.
There are some Bonds I need to see a second time to fully "get them". SPECTRE is one of those most definitely.
I do like the original SPECTRE track they did but this was the original one they submitted.
Dropped no doubt because it was an existing song it wouldn't be able to be nominated for an Oscar but to me this would have been (I'm biased) the finest song of the era.
Touted many times over the years as their never Bond tune by the fans, though you would have had to had a film that was worthy of such quality.
What apparently happened is that they were all set to go with it according to Mendes but it was pointed out by someone that Radiohead had been doing a version of it since the early 90's.
I believe this was around the period of touring the bends and it was a contender for OK Computer, it eventually ended up on the OKC 20th annversary issue this year in a finished version no doubt originally recorded for SPECTRE.
Unless there is a rule they couldn't use it as it was an existing song, more likely they'd have been denied an Oscar nom is my thinking.
They then had to refuse it so those who said RH had the job weren't far off the mark, they were the original contender.
They then went to Sam Smith and asked him, not long after this Thom Yorke contacted Mendes and said they think they could take another crack at it and produced their SPECTRE track.
Mendes said although he liked it they thought it too melancholic and very different to what Smith had submitted so they had to say they were going with him.
Mendes did say though he asked them permission to if he could insert it into the film somewhere and he says it did exist at some point but felt he was doing it a disservice and removed it.
He did say though he happened to see the version on Youtube with their SP theme and realised it could have worked but figured it more cool they didn't get the theme and it worked as WOTW won the Oscar.
You like me have similar views on SP I personally rank it 24 but as much as I would want Radiohead do a theme to have a song of the quality of Man of War linked to one of the all time worst entries I'm glad it got the song it deserved.
Radiohead got a lucky escape really if SPECTRE had been worthy of it we could have got a hell of a film, this for me leaves practically all the other supposed tracks that got near in the shade, it proves that Radiohead would have provided one of the best themes of the last 20 years had they got the chance.
Very interesting to read the history of that song and Radiohead's involvement by the way. Thanks for that.
It's not available anymore but the BBC had it on their website when Sam Mendes was on a program on the BBC radio station 6 Music. He discussed the use of different tracks in his films and then revealed what actually happened in the case of SPECTRE and Radiohead.
Kind of vindicates us that felt there was some truth in Radiohead's involvement and were laughed at, it was considerably closer than some I'm sure would have liked to admit.
I agree I hope for Bond 25 they give up on using flavour of the months like Smith and just offer it to someone that can serve the film best not do a song that has no real strong narrative sense to the film.
If they do continue to chase the golden baldy again I think it's not too over the top to think they'll pick the likes of Ed Sheeran next time round.
The very thought of it makes me shudder.
I still don't like the Blofeld sub-plot and would've enjoyed a skiing chase in lieu of the plane stunt in Austria, but the high class technical achievement of the film, the costume and set design, cinematography (minus some filtering), Dan, some engaging scenes and themes and some great action too (the Hinx fight was an instant hit for me) make it hard to complain on my side especially because I'm satisfied by how the story was continued at the end of the day even if it of course wasn't exactly what I had in my head (it never would or could be).
I don't think the film gets a lot of the credit it deserves for many things, and I read some oddly nasty comments about it daily that have now made me chuckle simply because I'm used to it. I don't know where I'd rank it, probably near the top 10 or around it, give or take some spots. At worst I think it still feels above average to me, because of the execution of it, the cinematic quality and touches, its mood and atmosphere, performances and more. There's about fourteen films in the way of this one being my bottom ranked movie. ;) @Andi1996Ruegg, I didn't think you were being super critical at all, so no need to apologize or step away from your comments. I was where you are now with QoS for a while. I went into it expecting CR 2.0 and when I didn't think I got that I just said to hell with it. It took a while for me to absorb its message, Dan's subtle yet commanding performance, the amazing cast and scripting, visuals and yes...some crazy and beautifully choreographed action. It's probably one of the least recognizable Bond films for stripping a lot back, so I see why those who like Bond with a capital B may find it unappealing. To each their own but it's the stripped back, refreshing and quick as a bullet style to it I love and I think everyone in that film is on their game start to finish.
Here's the QoS Appreciation thread that I was going to link you to anyway:
https://www.mi6community.com/discussion/1117/quantum-of-solace-appreciation-thread-we-found-a-better-place-to-meet
It was one of the first threads I ever made on here over 6 years ago now (!) and it's created some great discussions and changed a lot of minds on the film, I'm happy to say. Whatever you have to say about it, positive or negative, hop on over sometime and we'll chat. It's been collecting too much dust anyway.
You're at a very fascinating and exciting time as a Bond fan, @Andi1996Ruegg, and I'm extremely jealous. You've only just gotten through the films and you're still finding out what attracts you, what styles of film you like, what tones and actors you prefer and more. I can remember when I was in your place almost ten years back now, stumbling upon Goldfinger late on TV one night then going on a mad hunt for all the Connery Bonds on DVD as I fell in love with this exciting and strange new spy character. I remember the early Bond marathons with Sean's movies, the endless days I'd watch Casino Royale on loop and how I'd slavishly glue myself to the TV during the summer months off from school looking for any Bond films being shown that I didn't own yet.
It's such a great time starting out as a Bond fan, and those memories always stick. The excitement and anticipation of seeing a Bond film you never have before, of discovering a new Bond actor you'd only heard mums about. Those bad days where you know only a Bond film could alleviate your mood, and the times you'd find yourself walking or talking like Bond without intending it simply because you'd memorized the movies and the actors' mannerisms so much from constant watching. The times when you watched a Bond on blu-ray for the first time after only seeing them in standard quality before then, falling in love all over again with an even crisper version of the adventures that look as though they were filmed yesterday (I could honestly marry my Connery blu-rays).
I don't know if you've read any of Fleming's books yet but the experience of discovery is just as exciting for his novels, but in a different way, as you gradually find out how a sketch on the fictional pages of a mysterious man grew into a live-action, decades spanning franchise phenomenon of rampant iconography. There's so much to Bond and his history on the page or big screen and off, and it continues to be a pleasure to get lost in it. I'll be very interested to see how you react to all these forces tugging at you as well, molding you into your own kind of Bond fan. :D
After seeing Quantum of Solace a second time I would have a lot to say about it. I could write a bloody book on the subject even.
I also realized, that Bond has already become way (too?) important to me.
The first time around I saw the films in HD on Jase's MacBookPro which has astonishing picture and sound quality.
Still, there's no comparison to see it on the big screen. I'm watching the Bond films in HD again, but this time projected to a 108" screen with a beamer.
I'm so lucky really. I'm told seeing it on a big UHD OLED screen will be again a different experience.
Very jealous of how you're watching these films. I'd kill to see the 60s films on the big screen, and if I have my way I'll seek those opportunities out if I can in the future. Especially for the Young trilogy and OHMSS.
The film could be very impressive if it weren't so overlong. Every scene seems to drag much longer than it needs to. The old Bond films had room to breathe, and take in the setting (I'm thinking the pyramid sequence in TSWLM) but they still achieved a run time just over 2 hrs. I felt the pacing of SP was way too slow, and it didn't bother me as much with CR and SF because they had a involved story, but SP was just trying to be a classic Bond romp. Those movies knew when to speed up, and when to slow down. SP is slow from the start, with that incredibly long shot, until the end. Even the action is slow-paced. If they wanted to deliver a kick-a## Bond romp without an emotionally tortured Bond, it need to be more snappy like the Bond films of old really were.
Seminal 007 material.
+1. Easily my least favourite of the series.
Far better than SF, a weaker whole than the sum of its parts but nevertheless a film I find infinitely rewatchable.
I've always liked TMWTGG (guilty pleasure) and AVTAK is growing on me, although it's close between this and SP.
That is possible in due time, but I feel like the reception SP receives is even more negative now than it was back in 2015 - that, of course, could always change in the next three, five, ten years.
QoS seemed to get more and more hate thrown its way, but it's getting a deeper appreciation (at least around these parts) in the past couple of years, which is great to see.
I don't think it will be looked upon more favourably in time by the masses though. Neither has QoS.
This is an opinion I share as well. Left the theatre disappointed, and it's gotten worse watching it later on. That's 2.5 rewatches in total (turned it off the last time).