Where would you rank SPECTRE? (no spoilers)

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  • Posts: 7,405
    Was on Telly last night, and I watched it from beginning to end, ad breaks and all.. and I still found lots to enjoy!
    DAD, for me is simply unwatchable, and I don't see that ever changing!
  • Posts: 19,339
    #23 in my rankings,one above the bottom film,TLD, at #24,and just below FYEO at #22.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Probably around 16/17 in my rankings.

    It's one of those films that doesen't hold together as a whole, but parts of it are excellent.

    The PTS is brilliant. Bond's scene with M is poor. Then it picks up until it gets to Rome. The SPECTRE meeting is ok but ruined by some unpleasant violence. The car chase is naff. Bond's meeting with Mr White is ok but it's starting to bore me now. The Hoffner clinic scenes are poor. Weak dialogue and while technically excellent, the plane chase is awkward and dumb.

    The scenes in L'American are ok but nothing special. Best scenes in the film are on the train. A couple of decent scenes with Madeleine then we get one of the best fights in the series. Fast and brutal it deserved a better film.

    I quite like the meeting with Blofeld although the torture scene while well acted, is so obviously a last minute decision. Bond's escape is ridiculously easy and the less said about the 'record breaking' explosion the better.

    The third act is just a mess and seriously needed re-thinking. I don't mind the chase along the Thames and the scene on the bridge.

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    The only bit I like is the Q scene and train fight. At 23rd is TWINE where the PTS and accompanying score is enough to keep it from the bottom
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I rank SPECTRE at no 6. Very little to dislike here.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    I rank SPECTRE at no 6. Very little to dislike here.

    Good man. I'm glad to hear it. :)
  • Posts: 4,044
    I rank SPECTRE at no 6. Very little to dislike here.

    I don’t think I’m ever happy doing a league table. I’d be pointlessly rejigging it every day. But I guess Spectre is in the 6-9 area.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    For me, once the new Bond film high wore off, it slipped. Today, I would put it somewhere middle of the pack, 14-18 most likely. There are many areas I enjoy such as the PTS, Rome and the scene with Mr. White. However, the finale is probably the worst in the series.
  • Posts: 7,653
    For me SF & SP are the coasters of the franchise nice to put a cup on in order not to get into trouble with the spouse over rings on the table.
  • goldenswissroyalegoldenswissroyale Switzerland
    Posts: 4,474
    I would rank SP as no. 17 at the moment. It isn't as exciting as it should be, but I absolutely love the train scenes.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited July 2019 Posts: 4,343
    TripAces wrote: »
    SP may be the most frustrating Bond film ever made. Overall, it's middle of the pack, for me.

    The frustration stems for the film's first 115 minutes being really good. It's followed by a third act that is a mess...and based on the emails, what did we expect. The film was rushed into production before they had that third act. Equally frustrating is that the problems in that third act could have been easily fixed, if SM, DC, Babs, and Butterworth had used TSWLM as a model: the third acts are essentially very similar.

    I had no problems with the cinematography, the score, or Mendes's general handling of the film, all of which have been bashed to exhaustion on this site...for no reason, really.

    Quick thoughts:

    PTS: Fantastic
    Funeral scene and encounter with Lucia: Fantastic (Love Bond's little wave here)
    Spectre meeting: Fantastic
    Meeting with Mr White: Fantastic
    Clinic scene: Fantastic (love two lines here: about cutting out the middle man and telling one of the guards: Stay!)
    Morocco: Fantastic (even liked the mouse, and the finding of the hidden room)
    Train fight: doubly fantastic
    And then some of my favorite 10 seconds of Bond film ever: the "Writings on the Wall" instrumental, as the train makes its way through the desert, the sunset in the bg, and then the cut to Bond and Madeleine being dropped off....GREAT!!!!!)

    But then the film starts to fall apart quickly, unfortunately.

    The third act really needed to follow a simple formula: Bond goes after villain, who's holding Bond girl captive, in a place that is going about to blow up, but needs to get through henchman first. Then he kills henchman and villain and saves the girl.

    Hinx needed to make a return at the very end. The helicopter fight should have been reserved for the two of them, over London, not Mexico City. They crash, with Blofeld's escaping (if they so desire). The final scene should NOT have been Bond letting Blofeld go, but racing against time to rescue Madeliene.

    Big +1!

    I overall agree 100%, except for the fact that I didn't felt the third act to be such a mess. Yes, it wasn't definitely on the same level of the rest of the movie, except the snow chase that I never particularly liked. The torture scene, especially, suffered really lazy screenwriting.

    BTW the Morocco train scenes are the highlight of the movie. The train cutting the Sahara in two by the sunset --> the dinner + choice speech --> the fight --> Madeleine's volitive "What do we do know?" --> BANG + WotW --> the desert train station --> Rolls driving through the Sahara approaching the meteorite spot --> first confrontation with Blofeld* by the meteorite spot are probably my favourite 15 minutes in any Craig Bond film, if not in any Bond film. It was like watching a cocktail of Alfred Hitchcock's tension + Terence Young's coolness + David Lean's panoramic grandeur. Amazing.

    *Great scene. Waltz is incredibly scary. The way he says: "But I do" is great. Also the theatrical vibe of the scene really gets me.
  • Posts: 1,469
    I think the last time I did a Bond Movie Ranking was two years ago, and I had SP at #5. I still like it, but maybe not quite as much. Scanning the list now and taking a wild guess, I might put it somewhere between 8 and 15. Often when I think about the film I think especially of the Rome scenes. Also the safe house scene, and the train scenes and fight. I would actually now watch SP before SF, though critically I think SF is better. SP is newer and maybe more fun, "looser" for me. Time to do another ranking.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Trouble with SP is that i tend to skip bits when i watch it. With CR, QoS and SF i watch them beginning to end.

    I think that pretty much says it all.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I know i'm in the minority here but I like the PTS up to a point.

    As soon as Bond lands on the sofa and starts to give chase I fast forward through that and the opening credits.

    I just find the helicopter fight boring.
  • Posts: 7,405
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I know i'm in the minority here but I like the PTS up to a point.

    As soon as Bond lands on the sofa and starts to give chase I fast forward through that and the opening credits.

    I just find the helicopter fight boring.

    Can't agree there Bazza. I hate the explosion/collapsing building part and landing on the sofa, but love the helicopter scrap. Sciarra was a real imposing villain for the time he was on screen (Love the sneering look he gives Bond as they run through the crowd!) And the fight scene was well choreographed and edited, particularly the barrel roll which nearly sends both of them out the doors! The sound of the gasping crowds is also great, as Bond tries to pull the copter out of its dive. Take the cgi building out and it's a near perfect pts, along with that tremendous opening tracking shot!
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    The helicopter scene is great Moore-era style PTS action. Agree about the gasping crowd.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I know i'm in the minority here but I like the PTS up to a point.

    As soon as Bond lands on the sofa and starts to give chase I fast forward through that and the opening credits.

    I just find the helicopter fight boring.

    Can't agree there Bazza. I hate the explosion/collapsing building part and landing on the sofa, but love the helicopter scrap. Sciarra was a real imposing villain for the time he was on screen (Love the sneering look he gives Bond as they run through the crowd!) And the fight scene was well choreographed and edited, particularly the barrel roll which nearly sends both of them out the doors! The sound of the gasping crowds is also great, as Bond tries to pull the copter out of its dive. Take the cgi building out and it's a near perfect pts, along with that tremendous opening tracking shot!

    As I said me olde pal,i know i'm in the minority,mind you I do love Bond's walk across the roof tops and the way he squats down and raises the rifle.

    Also fair play to Newman as the accompanying track,actually playing the Bond theme,is excellent and really adds to that moment.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    mattjoes wrote: »
    The helicopter scene is great Moore-era style PTS action. Agree about the gasping crowd.

    It suits Moore era but didn't worked for me in Craig's SP. Same for me @barryt007
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    Now that I think about it, the helicopter scene is not too different from, say, the footchase in CR. There is an spectacular, extravagant nature to both scenes. It's not even that different from the SF PTS, though that one, while more varied and extensive, is probably more down to earth. I think the helicopter scene suits Craig.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2019 Posts: 17,789
    Still the same; SP is my second favourite Craig
    Bond movie behind QOS.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Still the same; SP is my second favourite Craig
    Bond movie behind QOS.

    We agree on this.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    It ended up at the no. 20 spot in the ranking tournament. It sure has dropped from grace for many.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It ended up at the no. 20 spot in the ranking tournament. It sure has dropped from grace for many.

    And I think it has probably dropped since the game began. It fared far better in the earlier rounds. I predict that if we give NTTD a few years to gestate, and do this again, SP will end up several notches further back. If we had done this upon SP's release it would have come out in the Top 15 no doubt, possibly Top 12.

    Maybe you are right. If we ever do this again, then someone else can get the job. Maybe you could do it, with your own spin. Still, when we started that thread, SP was more than two years old.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    For me what made SPECTRE such a gut punch , and why it ranks dead last for me, I in part because my expectations were so high.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If SP did better in the early rounds (I can t remember for sure), then it could have to do with what it was up against as well? I honestly don t know, and in retrospect I wish I had put all the results up on page 1, for easy access and control.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    It had two things going for it and both were squandered; the first was a clean d sad late. At the end of SKYFALL we had a Bond who was enthusiastic about a return to service; we also had the rights to Blofeld required.
    The could have done a film that started with as clean slate with a mysterious Blofeld who could have been slowly introduced, and revealed , over several film, and had no personal connection to Bond.
    What a wasted opportunity.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited June 2020 Posts: 7,546
    A wasted opportunity perfectly describes SP. That said, I do still find things in it to enjoy personally, and I rank the film pretty highly as such.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    Indeed...SP's alternate title should be A WASTED OPPORTUNITY. Once Craig's Bond said 'With pleasure M....With pleasure' to the slow build-up of the Bond theme and finished with the flourish of Kleinman's unique Gunbarrel Design, accompanied by Bond's calm & assured Gait, I was like 'Here we go, Bond 24 is going to be Something Extraordinary'....But Mendes returned. He looked left & right, looked up & down , and said 'OK, am out of Bond ideas, but the pay is good. And besides, Barbara & Michael won't notice....after all, I directed the Critically-Acclaimed SF, let me just copy and paste SF upside down'.

    I know Mendes is a good director....I don't know, but sometimes, it feels as if Mendes was lucky with SF considering it's his first real action film, because if a Director as consistent as Nolan, directed SF(which would have even been better) imagine what he would have done with SP....Because a Good Director usually tops himself consistently with each film, to prove his previous film was no fluke.
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