"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Agree with you on the SP plane/car chase. Why couldn't they just given us a ski chase instead...

    Because they knew how bad I wanted to see a Craig skiing sequence.

    That was apparently the plan, but Dan didn't want to do it and/or the knee injury complicated the possibility of the idea.

    Yea it was just DC telling SM that he couldn't 'effing' ski or something like that.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Most of the scene would've been all stuntmen anyway, so they should have overrode Dan and got on with doing the scene.

    Have Bond ski down a series of hills that leads to the roadway Madeleine is being taken down in the convoy, show him fighting off enemies as he goes, jumping from each high summit until he reaches a last jump, which rockets him into the air, landing him on the roadway which he skids along just in time to jump onto the convoy carrying Madeleine, after which he kills all the guys inside the vehicle and takes control of it, racing her out of there, ramming Hinx's car over the road as he goes.

    The aftermath would still be the same; the conversation with Bond and Madeleine would be unchanged from what it is after the plane sequence, it would just be exchanged inside the vehicle as Bond speeds away towards Q's hotel room.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Most of the scene would've been all stuntmen anyway, so they should have overrode Dan and got on with doing the scene.

    Have Bond ski down a series of hills that leads to the roadway Madeleine is being taken down in the convoy, show him fighting off enemies as he goes, jumping from each high summit until he reaches a last jump, which rockets him into the air, landing him on the roadway which he skids along just in time to jump onto the convoy carrying Madeleine, after which he kills all the guys inside the vehicle and takes control of it, racing her out of there, ramming Hinx's car over the road as he goes.

    The aftermath would still be the same; the conversation with Bond and Madeleine would be unchanged from what it is after the plane sequence, it would just be exchanged inside the vehicle as Bond speeds away towards Q's hotel room.

    One can dream.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Well, at least we got to see Dan's Bond in a winter climate at least once. It was something I've always wanted to see since I watched CR, and I'm glad we finally got it in SP in a smart way that served the story and also reunited us with Mr. White in one of my favorite scenes in the franchise.
  • Most of the scene would've been all stuntmen anyway, so they should have overrode Dan and got on with doing the scene.

    Have Bond ski down a series of hills that leads to the roadway Madeleine is being taken down in the convoy, show him fighting off enemies as he goes, jumping from each high summit until he reaches a last jump, which rockets him into the air, landing him on the roadway which he skids along just in time to jump onto the convoy carrying Madeleine, after which he kills all the guys inside the vehicle and takes control of it, racing her out of there, ramming Hinx's car over the road as he goes.

    The aftermath would still be the same; the conversation with Bond and Madeleine would be unchanged from what it is after the plane sequence, it would just be exchanged inside the vehicle as Bond speeds away towards Q's hotel room.

    Hence why I created this topic a few years ago ;-):
    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/5596/spectre-bringing-skiing-to-new-levels-in-austria-julian-carr-halvor-angvik#latest
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I like the Tank chase and Plane chase as they are very similar to eachother. Stuck in a jam, Bond uses the closest vehicle in the area to get a drop on the enemy. What gives the Tank chase the leg up is the music. The Tank chase has a nice new bombastic arrangment of the James Bond theme while the plane chase has generic action noise. If the plane chase had an awesome use of the Bond theme like the tank chase had, I think it would be rated much higher.

    This is awesome.


    This isn't.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Most of the scene would've been all stuntmen anyway, so they should have overrode Dan and got on with doing the scene.

    Have Bond ski down a series of hills that leads to the roadway Madeleine is being taken down in the convoy, show him fighting off enemies as he goes, jumping from each high summit until he reaches a last jump, which rockets him into the air, landing him on the roadway which he skids along just in time to jump onto the convoy carrying Madeleine, after which he kills all the guys inside the vehicle and takes control of it, racing her out of there, ramming Hinx's car over the road as he goes.

    The aftermath would still be the same; the conversation with Bond and Madeleine would be unchanged from what it is after the plane sequence, it would just be exchanged inside the vehicle as Bond speeds away towards Q's hotel room.

    Would've been infinitely better than what we got. Shame. Maybe we'll get a return to skiing in the near future.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 1,817
    Murdock wrote: »
    I like the Tank chase and Plane chase as they are very similar to eachother. Stuck in a jam, Bond uses the closest vehicle in the area to get a drop on the enemy. What gives the Tank chase the leg up is the music. The Tank chase has a nice new bombastic arrangment of the James Bond theme while the plane chase has generic action noise. If the plane chase had an awesome use of the Bond theme like the tank chase had, I think it would be rated much higher.

    This is awesome.


    This isn't.


    I like both. Snow Plane uses a lot of flourishes of brass that recall Barry. And the Bond theme (or something that sounds like it) is teased twice (2:33 and 3:55).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The score is not the major problem with that SP plane sequence. Far from it in fact.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    bondjames wrote: »
    The score is not the major problem with that SP plane sequence. Far from it in fact.

    It certainly doesn't elevate the sequence like a great score should, however.
  • I saw Paul Verhoeven's "Elle". My god, what a wonderful piece of film art. I would love Verhoeven to direct a Bond film now. And let's not forget, he does have good action credentials.
  • edited September 2016 Posts: 12,837
    I'm glad you mentioned the score and made that comparison @Murdock because I agree. When I read the script I pictured something exactly like the GE tank chase. I mean the scenario is nearly identical. So I was a bit disappointed with what we got.

    As it stands I think the plane chase is good, but not great. It's great on paper: Bond has a firefight while flying a plane, when he then crashes it and uses it to total the convoy before finishing off the last couple of guards. Sounds like a great setpiece, and it does have some good stuntwork and a couple of great moments. But it wasn't very well executed, imo. The music is the main problem. There are a couple of nice flourishes but what should feel like an epic, heroic moment (Bond emerging in the plane) actually feels pretty pedestrian. I think the editing felt a bit bland too. Which is weird because on the whole I thought Spectre's action was terrific and that Mendes really hit his stride with the action scenes (the PTS and the Hinx fight being the highlights), but then with this one he seemed to regress a bit. It was like he was bored with it and wanted to just get past it and on with the plot.

    It's a good seqence. The setup is brilliant (I love all the scenes at the clinic), Bond telling the guard to stay because (no matter how easy it'd be for him) he can't be arsed to fight him is a personal favourite highlight. And I love the cocky wave he does to Hinx before the shooting starts. And like I said the stunts themselves are actually pretty impressive, and the scenery is great. A better score and some more intense editing/direction and it could have been a great setpiece. As it stands, it's fun enough and technically impressive but is definitely the worst action scene of the film imo.

    I can't believe anyone prefers this to the tank chase. The opening alone (when the tank smashes through the wall and speeds down the road as Bond emerges from the hatch, theme blaring) is one of the most epic, memorable moments of the series, but then the chaos of the tank smashing through walls and speeding round tight corners and the tie straightening bit are the icing on the cake. The sequence is remembered as one of GE's highlights. I think the moments people will remember from Spectre are the opening tracking shot and the DB10 stuff. Noone is going to remember the plane chase.

    Is the tank chase cheesey? In parts. But I'll take dumb, ridiculous but well executed fun setpieces over blandly executed, ridiculous but played pretty much completely straight (but with no intensity whatsoever, Bond emerges without a scratch) setpieces any day. I feel like some people just have trouble giving anything from the Brosnan era the edge over anything Craig. That's really the only explanation I can think of for people preferring the plane sequence over the Goldeneye tank chase. Either that or an aversion to any sort of humour whatsoever in action scenes (as the humour is really the only real critique against the tank chase imo).
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.

    Why not ;-)?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.

    Why not ;-)?

    He's 78 years old, and hasn't tackled a project the size of Bond in a very long time. He'll be 80+ by the time the next Bond movie got started. He's very good, don't get me wrong, just not someone that I ever see helming a Bond film.
  • Posts: 4,617
    It would be an "18"
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    bondjames wrote: »
    The score is not the major problem with that SP plane sequence. Far from it in fact.

    It certainly doesn't elevate the sequence like a great score should, however.

    Agreed. I love SP a lot but the score was the biggest let down for me. There are 2 great tracks at most but the rest of it does not elevate me in the slightest. This is movie that deserved a few good blasts of the Bond theme in its entirety.
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.

    Why not ;-)?

    He's 78 years old, and hasn't tackled a project the size of Bond in a very long time. He'll be 80+ by the time the next Bond movie got started. He's very good, don't get me wrong, just not someone that I ever see helming a Bond film.

    Campbell would be 75 when he starts filming Bond #25. Ridley Scott is actually 6 months older than Verhoeven.

    I think in the end it all depends on fitness. All of the above directors currently are fit enough to do another movie.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.

    Why not ;-)?

    He's 78 years old, and hasn't tackled a project the size of Bond in a very long time. He'll be 80+ by the time the next Bond movie got started. He's very good, don't get me wrong, just not someone that I ever see helming a Bond film.

    Campbell would be 75 when he starts filming Bond #25. Ridley Scott is actually 6 months older than Verhoeven.

    I think in the end it all depends on fitness. All of the above directors currently are fit enough to do another movie.

    Verhoeven made some of my favourite movies, he's a one off, but all too old IMO.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Verhoeven has some great work under his belt, and 'Elle' does look great, but I don't know if he could handle a Bond movie.

    Why not ;-)?

    He's 78 years old, and hasn't tackled a project the size of Bond in a very long time. He'll be 80+ by the time the next Bond movie got started. He's very good, don't get me wrong, just not someone that I ever see helming a Bond film.

    Campbell would be 75 when he starts filming Bond #25. Ridley Scott is actually 6 months older than Verhoeven.

    I think in the end it all depends on fitness. All of the above directors currently are fit enough to do another movie.

    It still doesn't alter the fact that Verhoeven doesn't have any recent experience with a movie of this size. Interesting choice, but he'd never be picked over the countless other options.

    After rewatching 'Haywire' yesterday, I'd love to see Soderbergh do a Bond film.
  • Soderbergh is my 2nd wish after Guy Ritchie....I think :-).
  • Maybe it would be seen as being too obvious but I would have thought the ideal music for the plane chase would have been the revamped OHMSS theme from the trailer.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Soderbergh is my 2nd wish after Guy Ritchie....I think :-).

    No, no, no. How Ritchie is still in demand I don't know. If there were ever a director that epitomised style over substance it's him. Even worse, his style is middling to shite. There are so many interesting directors out there. Hiring Ritchie would be Tamahori MKII.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited September 2016 Posts: 10,591
    Villeneuve is my first choice (by a wide margin). He would do a cracking job. Plus, we'd get Deakins back.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    Soderbergh is my 2nd wish after Guy Ritchie....I think :-).

    No, no, no. How Ritchie is still in demand I don't know. If there were ever a director that epitomised style over substance it's him. Even worse, his style is middling to shite. There are so many interesting directors out there. Hiring Ritchie would be Tamahori MKII.

    But.....I like his films :(
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited September 2016 Posts: 8,217
    RC7 wrote: »
    Soderbergh is my 2nd wish after Guy Ritchie....I think :-).

    No, no, no. How Ritchie is still in demand I don't know. If there were ever a director that epitomised style over substance it's him. Even worse, his style is middling to shite. There are so many interesting directors out there. Hiring Ritchie would be Tamahori MKII.

    But.....I like his films :(

    I also like his films. I thought UNCLE was great fun. Whether or not his style would suit Bond now is another story, but we could probably do a lot worse!
    jake24 wrote: »
    Villeneuve is my first choice (by a wide margin). He would do a cracking job. Plus, we'd get Deakins back.

    Now that I would love. Especially if we were taking some direct inspiration from a certain novel and putting the Garden of Death on the big screen. Imagine the tension!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    RC7 wrote: »
    Soderbergh is my 2nd wish after Guy Ritchie....I think :-).

    No, no, no. How Ritchie is still in demand I don't know. If there were ever a director that epitomised style over substance it's him. Even worse, his style is middling to shite. There are so many interesting directors out there. Hiring Ritchie would be Tamahori MKII.

    But.....I like his films :(

    I also like his films. I thought UNCLE was great fun. Whether or not his style would suit Bond now is another story, but we could probably do a lot worse!
    jake24 wrote: »
    Villeneuve is my first choice (by a wide margin). He would do a cracking job. Plus, we'd get Deakins back.

    Now that I would love. Especially if we were taking some direct inspiration from a certain novel and putting the Garden of Death on the big screen. Imagine the tension!
    I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it.
  • Ermm I don't know if this opinion is unpopular but I think the snow chase is still decent stuff and very good near the end - definitely better than the car chase from the same movie.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Ermm I don't know if this opinion is unpopular but I think the snow chase is still decent stuff and very good near the end - definitely better than the car chase from the same movie.
    Agreed, I love the plane chase (despite the lackluster score). What @Brady described above would have been miles better though.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Both the plane chase and the car chase were about Bond and Hinx showing off. :))
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