"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • Lancaster007Lancaster007 Shrublands Health Clinic, England
    Posts: 1,874
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Overall, I'd definitely say it's the best spy film of 2015. It totally exceeded my expectations and was nothing but good old OTT fun for me. The only thing that pisses me off is that I've yet to see it more than once, and every opportunity I have falls through. However, the best action film of 2015, this is not. Sure, the PTS is phenomenal, the train fight is insane, and I'm probably one of the few who actually loved the Rome car chase; but, you just can't beat 'Fury Road' in terms of action. That movie actually may stand as my favorite of the year, and one of my favorites in general, of all time.

    No, I did too. Thankful that it wasn't another Hamilton-type crash-bash-smash car chase, some nice light relief and a great pay off. One of my favourite scenes.
  • Daniel Craig was magnificent as James Bond 007. And it really hurts me to read/see that many many reviewers, even fans in here, do not even address this fact. Over the course of four films agent 007 has transformed from a cold-blooded blunt instrument vs. assassin into an agent who can enjoy life a bit more and who has emotions perfectly in check.

    This road, that has lasted four films, is unique in the entire franchise history. And it angers/saddens me that actually the entire year Daniel Craig was constantly slashed by the press and media.....to such an extent that every top critics review I am reading does NOT speak about Daniel Craig's portrayal as 007 in "SPECTRE". It truly hurts me.

    And a magnificent portrayal by Daniel Craig as Ian Fleming's James Bond-007.
  • I can't stop watching this scene :-):

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Overall, I'd definitely say it's the best spy film of 2015. It totally exceeded my expectations and was nothing but good old OTT fun for me. The only thing that pisses me off is that I've yet to see it more than once, and every opportunity I have falls through. However, the best action film of 2015, this is not. Sure, the PTS is phenomenal, the train fight is insane, and I'm probably one of the few who actually loved the Rome car chase; but, you just can't beat 'Fury Road' in terms of action. That movie actually may stand as my favorite of the year, and one of my favorites in general, of all time.

    No, I did too. Thankful that it wasn't another Hamilton-type crash-bash-smash car chase, some nice light relief and a great pay off. One of my favourite scenes.

    I totally appreciated that chase. One more CGI-assisted car crash we did not need (see Furious 7 if you need to). The sense of familiarity in most of SPECTRE melded with new little twists to things (no sacrificial lamb for instance) is what great Bond movies are all about.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Overall, I'd definitely say it's the best spy film of 2015. It totally exceeded my expectations and was nothing but good old OTT fun for me. The only thing that pisses me off is that I've yet to see it more than once, and every opportunity I have falls through. However, the best action film of 2015, this is not. Sure, the PTS is phenomenal, the train fight is insane, and I'm probably one of the few who actually loved the Rome car chase; but, you just can't beat 'Fury Road' in terms of action. That movie actually may stand as my favorite of the year, and one of my favorites in general, of all time.

    No, I did too. Thankful that it wasn't another Hamilton-type crash-bash-smash car chase, some nice light relief and a great pay off. One of my favourite scenes.

    I totally appreciated that chase. One more CGI-assisted car crash we did not need (see Furious 7 if you need to). The sense of familiarity in most of SPECTRE melded with new little twists to things (no sacrificial lamb for instance) is what great Bond movies are all about.

    Ufff, you mention "Furious 7" now. There were no real car chases in that film if you ask me. It was "Die Another Day"-style action times 1000. Cars parachuting out of airplanes, cars jumping from one skycraper to another...

    I shall be honest here, I understand why people nowadays prefer this kind of bloated action porn, over more real-life car/motorbike chases like we have witnessed in "SPECTRE", "Rogue Nation" and "Winter Soldier"; It awes you upon first watch. No matter how ridiculous you find it on first watch, you start laughing with a big "WTF"-feeling :-).

    I had the same feeling. So I think it's entirely unfair to slam or ridicule the car chase from "SPECTRE". At least that was real action. And I think we should appreciate that a bit more, instead of slamming our own Bond films for being unoriginal.

    Because it can be much worse: CGI "Furious 7" style. So ask yourself first: What do you really want?? Car chase "Furious 7"-style? Or car chase realistic style? Do you prefer getting laughs out of cars behaving like stuntmen, jumping from building to building? Or do you prefer a classic toned-down car chase, in which most of the stunts were done real?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    'Furious 7' definitely had a little too much CGI for my tastes, but there was still a lot to enjoy about it. The entire mountaintop rescue mission was pretty intense and well done, I thought. I've always had a soft spot for those wacky, overly ridiculous movies, though.

    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    'Furious 7' definitely had a little too much CGI for my tastes, but there was still a lot to enjoy about it. The entire mountaintop rescue mission was pretty intense and well done, I thought. I've always had a soft spot for those wacky, overly ridiculous movies, though.

    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
    Agreed, definitely one of the better chases of the franchise. BTW That track is "Backfire" and the building is St. Peter's Basilica.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
    It's beautifully shot, and the scenery is magnificent as you note. It just doesn't connect with some (including myself) viscerally, just like the AVTAK Renault chase and FYEO Citreon chase don't connect with me these days either.

    Beautifully filmed and framed though.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    Wow, St. Peter's Basilica is actually pretty obvious. Don't think I've ever even caught it because I'm too busy grinning and staring at the cars drifting while I tune out to that beautiful track.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
    It's beautifully shot, and the scenery is magnificent as you note. It just doesn't connect with some (including myself) viscerally, just like the AVTAK Renault chase and FYEO Citreon chase don't connect with me these days either.
    It's a different type of chase for sure. If it's something you didn't expect, I understand your criticism towards it. It's more focused on the comedic, showing off the camera skills type of things, as opposed to the more brutal, visceral excitement many of us, including myself, had expected. In the end it did work for me, unfortunately not for some.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Just discussing the SPECTRE pros over at AJB and I suddenly realized that I could go on for literally hours on all the aspects of SPECTRE that I'm happy with, and I can sum up what I am not in a few scant sentences. Been a very long time since that happened!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The problem with the Rome car chase has nothing to do with the cgi and OTT stunts of the fast and furious movies. The fact is, when the car chase has 2 incredible vehicles, one in pursuit of another in a scene that costs more than the entire production value of the UNCLE movie, one expects something greater than what we actually got. The vehicle chases in rogue nation were better, the Nick Fury chase scene in the winter soldier was MUCH better, every car chase in Damon's Bourne movies were better and yes, even the opening to QoS was vastly superior to what SP gave us.

    As a fan of Bond and as someone who did enjoy SP, the film itself obviously isn't above criticism and the car chase has clearly failed to live up to the reasonable expectations people had for it. It wasn't terrible but still, it was disappointing for many people.
  • I loved the film because if i hadnt watched it, i wouldnt have noted this amazing tuxedo. I wore this for my wedding 2 days back and it was an amazing outfit. i think instead of giving it back, i will keep it.

    https://fjackets.com/buy/Sam-Smith-Spectre-Premiere-Tuxedo.html

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    doubleoego wrote: »
    As a fan of Bond and as someone who did enjoy SP, the film itself obviously isn't above criticism and the car chase has clearly failed to live up to the reasonable expectations people had for it. It wasn't terrible but still, it was disappointing for many people.
    Whilst sitting in the theatre I was wondering when one of the cars was going to leap into the air & explode. They surprised me! Good on them!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The chase was a nice surprise for me. All of the other action is played straight and I enjoyed the interplay with MP very much. It's also nice to have a bit of variation within the Craig era. The QoS chase is one of the best moments in that particular film. Could this have upped the ante in terms of danger? Sure. Could it have been a little more 'full throttle'? Absolutely. As it is, I don't really care, I find it brilliantly enjoyable and interestingly paced. I'm actually quite glad it doesn't mirror QoS otherwise we'd have had another 'torture scene' scenario where it's used as an example of how another film supposedly already did it better.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    The chase was a nice surprise for me. All of the other action is played straight and I enjoyed the interplay with MP very much. It's also nice to have a bit of variation within the Craig era. The QoS chase is one of the best moments in that particular film. Could this have upped the ante in terms of danger? Sure. Could it have been a little more 'full throttle'? Absolutely. As it is, I don't really care, I find it brilliantly enjoyable and interestingly paced. I'm actually quite glad it doesn't mirror QoS otherwise we'd have had another 'torture scene' scenario where it's used as an example of how another film supposedly already did it better.

    What were your favorite non-action sequences of the film @RC7?
  • Posts: 4,325
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
    It's beautifully shot, and the scenery is magnificent as you note. It just doesn't connect with some (including myself) viscerally, just like the AVTAK Renault chase and FYEO Citreon chase don't connect with me these days either.

    Beautifully filmed and framed though.

    I quite like the FYEO Citroen chase, but the AVTAK Renault chase is a bit much
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Saw SP for a third time last night, still can't wrap my head around what's not to like about that car chase. The shot of Bond drifting through the streets while Hinx follows, and the score is playing as the vocals string out and they pass in front of that big building (not sure what track it's called, nor the location in Rome, so I hope someone understand what I'm talking about) is totally breath-taking. I'm in awe every time I see that shot.
    It's beautifully shot, and the scenery is magnificent as you note. It just doesn't connect with some (including myself) viscerally, just like the AVTAK Renault chase and FYEO Citreon chase don't connect with me these days either.

    Beautifully filmed and framed though.

    I quite like the FYEO Citroen chase, but the AVTAK Renault chase is a bit much
    Yes, I agree actually. The FYEO chase is pretty good. The score is a little too playful for me but the action isn't all that bad and the requisite humour is nicely delivered by Moore.
  • Everytime when I watch this scene..I get goosebumps. Especially near the end of the fight, when the music kicks in. I love to hear Madeleine's strangling moaning noises and to see Daniel Craig having some real physical trouble with this man.


    Many people compare this scene with previous Bond films, but....
    --> Bond vs. Donald 'Red' Grant
    --> Bond vs. Oddjob
    --> Bond vs. Hans (YOLT)
    --> Bond vs. black henchman (OHMSS)
    --> Bond vs. Tee Hee
    --> Bond vs. Jaws
    --> Bond vs. Gobinda
    --> Bond vs. Necros
    --> Bond vs. Xenia
    --> Bond vs. Stamper, and finally....
    --> Bond vs. Hinx !

    What I liked most about this particular fight sequence, was the sound editing. Absolutely top-notch. The strangling noises, Bond's moans, the noise of all parts in that train being slammed, the noise of Hinx waving the fire off his jacket, everything.

    Per Hallberg and Karen-Baker Landers truly deserved that Oscar for "Skyfall". They probably won't win it this time around for "SPECTRE". But an Oscar nomination I would recommend.
  • Posts: 3,336
    They are going for score and song though apparently...
  • Posts: 3,336
    I think a new cinematography nomation can be in order though
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Everytime when I watch this scene..I get goosebumps. Especially near the end of the fight, when the music kicks in. I love to hear Madeleine's strangling moaning noises and to see Daniel Craig having some real physical trouble with this man.


    Many people compare this scene with previous Bond films, but....
    --> Bond vs. Donald 'Red' Grant
    --> Bond vs. Oddjob
    --> Bond vs. Hans (YOLT)
    --> Bond vs. black henchman (OHMSS)
    --> Bond vs. Tee Hee
    --> Bond vs. Jaws
    --> Bond vs. Gobinda
    --> Bond vs. Necros
    --> Bond vs. Xenia
    --> Bond vs. Stamper, and finally....
    --> Bond vs. Hinx !

    What I liked most about this particular fight sequence, was the sound editing. Absolutely top-notch. The strangling noises, Bond's moans, the noise of all parts in that train being slammed, the noise of Hinx waving the fire off his jacket, everything.

    Per Hallberg and Karen-Baker Landers truly deserved that Oscar for "Skyfall". They probably won't win it this time around for "SPECTRE". But an Oscar nomination I would recommend.

    I agree the sound was amazing and like the old exaggerated examples of the older films.
  • They are going for score and song though apparently...

    No they don't:
    https://secure.sonypictures.com/movies/academy/foryourconsideration/?film=spectre

    One for your consideration poster for music doesn't mean that this will be the mean focus of the Sony Awards Office. Like with "Skyfall" several -usually rare- for your consideration posters will be made.

    This is the one I have at home:
    consideration12212020124.jpeg
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    It's not usual for a film that isn't critically acclaimed to win any Oscar, is it?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    jake24 wrote: »
    It's not usual for a film that isn't critically acclaimed to win any Oscar, is it?
    A film like that can still win in some of the supporting technical categories, but these usually aren't presented during the broadcast. Yes however, for the big categories, popularity and critical acclaim certainly helps.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    The chase was a nice surprise for me. All of the other action is played straight and I enjoyed the interplay with MP very much. It's also nice to have a bit of variation within the Craig era. The QoS chase is one of the best moments in that particular film. Could this have upped the ante in terms of danger? Sure. Could it have been a little more 'full throttle'? Absolutely. As it is, I don't really care, I find it brilliantly enjoyable and interestingly paced. I'm actually quite glad it doesn't mirror QoS otherwise we'd have had another 'torture scene' scenario where it's used as an example of how another film supposedly already did it better.

    What were your favorite non-action sequences of the film @RC7?

    I outlined them in another thread, I've copied and pasted below...


    Spectre meeting - Rome: a fantastic introduction to the organisation. Cinematography, staging, pacing and dialogue all fantastic. The direction and acting around Oberhauser's entrance is superb. I've heard several comments surrounding the films apparent 'pacing issues', chiefly, it not being allowed to breathe; this scene is masterful in the way it slows the pace and builds a palpable and unnerving tension.

    It's also brilliant in its use of expository dialogue. Never too much, never too little. We understand the organisation immediately, their global reach, their deference to their leader and we see his calm, collected ruthlessness, cue Hinx's entrance. Another moment that will go down as a series high point.

    L'Americain - Sensationally lit, beautifully scored by Newman and pitch-perfect acting from Craig and Seydoux. There's an electricity to the relationship that translates their situation and state of mind perfectly. You can see the cogs turning in Bond's mind and I get the impression, with Swann being a little squiffy, he continues to see a little of himself in her. It's quietly and subtly effective.

    The 'Who sent you?' DAF throwback is a really nice touch and the discovery of White's hidden room brings yet more chance for us to savour these little subtleties of performance that you could only get with actors the calibre of Craig and Seydoux. The fleeting moment of reflection when he takes the Vesper tape and subsequently tosses it aside is just excellent. Again, there's a brevity to it that tells you so much in such a short moment. I'd go as far as to say this scene is one of my favourite in the series.

    Torture - The main criticisms I've heard aimed at this scene are that it doesn't stand up against CR.

    Personally I find that rather flawed, for the same reason I wouldn't compare the car chase in SP to the car chase in QoS. Tonally they are trying to achieve very different things and they are crafted to exemplify the characters and their place within the story.

    Transplant ESB and the relevant dialogue to the CR torture scene, or something similar, and you have a scenario which loses the calculated menace behind the man. The way Waltz operates the chair is like a scientist, meticulously probing, psychologically testing. Having him whip his balls, or something equally, viscerally brutal takes away the self-assured, measured approach this psychotic should employ.

    Again the soft lighting and empty almost spectral feel of it ties in perfectly with the cold, amoral world ESB represents. The dialogue and acting are pretty sensational, not once does it stray into hammy or cliched territory and given the subject matter I take my hat off because the balance they strike is excellent.

    I've now seen it three times and I have to say, each time I hear it... 'The man you are now talking to. The man that is in your head...' I lose my shit. While the thought of Blofeld returning was always going to be mouthwatering, I had felt several pangs of anxiety concerning how they'd go about the reveal. Well, they nailed it in my eyes. No unnecessary theatre, no scenery chewing, just a withering look from ESB at the sound of the name, 'Franz', the cat and the dialogue. It's just bloody brilliant.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    The chase was a nice surprise for me. All of the other action is played straight and I enjoyed the interplay with MP very much. It's also nice to have a bit of variation within the Craig era. The QoS chase is one of the best moments in that particular film. Could this have upped the ante in terms of danger? Sure. Could it have been a little more 'full throttle'? Absolutely. As it is, I don't really care, I find it brilliantly enjoyable and interestingly paced. I'm actually quite glad it doesn't mirror QoS otherwise we'd have had another 'torture scene' scenario where it's used as an example of how another film supposedly already did it better.

    What were your favorite non-action sequences of the film @RC7?

    I outlined them in another thread, I've copied and pasted below...


    Spectre meeting - Rome: a fantastic introduction to the organisation. Cinematography, staging, pacing and dialogue all fantastic. The direction and acting around Oberhauser's entrance is superb. I've heard several comments surrounding the films apparent 'pacing issues', chiefly, it not being allowed to breathe; this scene is masterful in the way it slows the pace and builds a palpable and unnerving tension.

    It's also brilliant in its use of expository dialogue. Never too much, never too little. We understand the organisation immediately, their global reach, their deference to their leader and we see his calm, collected ruthlessness, cue Hinx's entrance. Another moment that will go down as a series high point.

    L'Americain - Sensationally lit, beautifully scored by Newman and pitch-perfect acting from Craig and Seydoux. There's an electricity to the relationship that translates their situation and state of mind perfectly. You can see the cogs turning in Bond's mind and I get the impression, with Swann being a little squiffy, he continues to see a little of himself in her. It's quietly and subtly effective.

    The 'Who sent you?' DAF throwback is a really nice touch and the discovery of White's hidden room brings yet more chance for us to savour these little subtleties of performance that you could only get with actors the calibre of Craig and Seydoux. The fleeting moment of reflection when he takes the Vesper tape and subsequently tosses it aside is just excellent. Again, there's a brevity to it that tells you so much in such a short moment. I'd go as far as to say this scene is one of my favourite in the series.

    Torture - The main criticisms I've heard aimed at this scene are that it doesn't stand up against CR.

    Personally I find that rather flawed, for the same reason I wouldn't compare the car chase in SP to the car chase in QoS. Tonally they are trying to achieve very different things and they are crafted to exemplify the characters and their place within the story.

    Transplant ESB and the relevant dialogue to the CR torture scene, or something similar, and you have a scenario which loses the calculated menace behind the man. The way Waltz operates the chair is like a scientist, meticulously probing, psychologically testing. Having him whip his balls, or something equally, viscerally brutal takes away the self-assured, measured approach this psychotic should employ.

    Again the soft lighting and empty almost spectral feel of it ties in perfectly with the cold, amoral world ESB represents. The dialogue and acting are pretty sensational, not once does it stray into hammy or cliched territory and given the subject matter I take my hat off because the balance they strike is excellent.

    I've now seen it three times and I have to say, each time I hear it... 'The man you are now talking to. The man that is in your head...' I lose my shit. While the thought of Blofeld returning was always going to be mouthwatering, I had felt several pangs of anxiety concerning how they'd go about the reveal. Well, they nailed it in my eyes. No unnecessary theatre, no scenery chewing, just a withering look from ESB at the sound of the name, 'Franz', the cat and the dialogue. It's just bloody brilliant.

    And I fully agree. Especially on the entire torture sequence and the S.P.E.C.T.R.E. board meeting in Rome. Pure acting delight and IMO perfectly written sequences as well. I also like to add the entire Morocco sequence, as the ride towards Blofeld's lair was also wonderfully filmed. Yes, it had a bit of a 'DN' feel to it -the arrival at Blofeld's modernist, Mies van der Rohe-esque bungalow and Blofeld's 2nd reveal in front of his Kartenhoff meteoroid- but it was re-imagined perfectly.

    I also mentioned before that the torture sequence in SP should not be seen as a 'lesser' version of the CR torture. Then the people don't understand the huge differences in reasoning behind Blofeld and Le Chiffre. I also like to add that Per Hallberg's/Karen Baker Lender's sound editing is nailbiting during the scenes we just mentioned (also during the train fight sequence).

    "SPECTRE" currently ranks 7th in my TOP 26 of films with the character of James Bond. And that hasn't changed a bit.
  • Anyone? I am surprised how......how 'popular' this topic is. I start to feel sorry for all those fans in this forum who....didn't like the film. Especially now since we only get one film every three years.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2015 Posts: 28,694
    Anyone? I am surprised how......how 'popular' this topic is. I start to feel sorry for all those fans in this forum who....didn't like the film. Especially now since we only get one film every three years.

    I for one will have much more to say following my second viewing tomorrow. Watch this space for what will likely be a novel length analysis...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    Well, I love the flick @Gustav_Graves. It ranks 4th for me at the moment, but that will certainly change in time once the newness wears off. It'll probably go down to 6 or 7 by next year. The story was actually no better than that for DAD, but the execution was reasonably flawless IMHO. If it had had an Arnold score, it would likely stay #4 forever!
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