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To quote Brozza in the GE trailer: 'Point taken'.
There's no need to keep repeating it for post after post.
@royale65 I felt the exact same way about the ending of CR. I honestly thought that we'd get something along the lines of Spectre next. I even assumed that they had a plan to get the rights back and that White's "organisation" had to be Spectre. But instead we got QoS, and then SF, and to me both those films essentially had the same ending as CR. They kept promising but it wasn't until SP that they delivered. And I agree on the character arc too. When he found the video of Vesper's interrogation it made me think back to CR and when I compared Bond in that film to Bond in SP, I suddenly understood what they were going for. It's clear that their plans changed somewhat and that they made it up as they went along but what we got over the course of four movies was a story about a rookie take on Fleming's Bond developing into the cold blooded cinematic Bond. Which in itself is great, a Bond with an actual character arc, but the real world context also means we get a bit of introspection and a slight look at what sort of effect that'd have on a person psychologically. I think when Bond saw that video he was reminded of the man he used to be (in CR he struggled with killing, by SP it's second nature) and that's why he spared Blofeld at the end.
@TheWizardOfIce I hope I didn't come across that way (willing to eat up any old shit as long as EON have made it) because I am aware of the faults of SP, although I think some of the criticism is unfair and overblown. It's just a case of the good outweighing the bad for me, I love the film in spite of its flaws but I am aware of them.
@RC7 I agree on QoS although I'd probably be a lot harsher than you were. I get the sense that EON learnt their lesson with the brother angle during production to be honest, it's really downplayed compared to the earlier drafts, the film actually seems sort of ashamed of it. I think that perhaps when they were saving the script Purvis and Wade weren't keen but that sort of melodrama appealed to Mendes so they couldn't ditch it entirely.
@bondjames I completely understand that to be fair, the clashing of the two different styles. I think perhaps I never had a problem buying into it because I'd wanted a film like SP for so long. SF also helps as that's sort of the middle ground so we got a nice transition to ease us into it. It just felt like a natural conclusion to me, like that was the road they'd slowly been heading down from the start.
Completely agree. @Gustav I can understand the frustration at the change in rules for appreciation threads, especially when there's a lot of criticism towards something you like because I've started appreciation threads for that reason myself before, but wouldn't it be better to just carry on with the discussion and trying to inject a bit of positivity into it if that's what you want, instead of childishly demanding that the thread be closed because it isn't going the way you want it to?
I am not childish, but given the fact that so many people in here not only criticise the film, but also criticise the very existence of appreciation topics as opposed to more general criticism topics about Bond film, I objectively think, and with that I actually agree with many in here, it is time to close this topic down. That's not childish. That's accepting and embracing the criticism of others! Basta!
I basically agree.
SP is an interesting case, in terms of appreciation/criticism. For me, the criticism stems from an appreciation of about 80% of the film. It is so good in so many parts that it makes the parts that don't work even more glaring. Sometimes there is nothing worse than missed opportunity. If that makes sense.
Just change it to Appreciation and discussion as I have done with ALL of the appreciation threads I have made,includingthe Saint,the Professionals,the Sweeney,Minder etc,as well as about 7 Bond films.
This way it opens the thread up for positive and negative debate.
Precisely.
Shouldnt we just have a 'Discussion' thread for each film just to keep things simple? Why this infantile desire to only read nice things? Gregg Beam wouldnt stand for it thats for sure!
Exactly. And, once again, please close this stupid topic then.
I'm intrigued as to how many times you will make the same post before even you get bored of it?
I predict about another 237.
The comedy is slightly goofier, sillier and less subtle than before, and I don't think it ruins the immersion and investment in the story; it simply provides little pockets of narrative fresh air, allows the film to breathe and ensures it maintains a sense of fun, that makes the darker elements more enjoyable by contrast and makes the film more inviting (Spectre's world is one I would like to visit, it feels lush and exciting).
Admittedly, variety is good for the Bond films, but I must say I do prefer a film like Spectre to one like Skyfall, that is by comparison a more emotionally draining, painful and wounded one (although I'll readily admit it has its share of unique and interesting qualities).
Maybe it's one of those casualties of the modern era, but none of those touches of humor especially stood out either. No doubt I was glad it wasn't all grimly serious but the thing I liked about the Connery/Moore humor was their pointed put-downs of the villains, that attitude of you may have the edge on me but I'm not going to acknowledge it. It ain't over yet.
I do like the byplay with Q, that's the one that's fit comfortably.
I also prefer Spectre to Skyfall. Despite its deficiencies, I just tend to enjoy revisiting SP whereas SF is something you're supposed to like and I just don't have a good time with it.
I would politely disagree; I found a lot of the humour you mentioned forced and even a little painful on occasion. I thought it did break immersion; the car chase, with all its attempts at silly humour makes an excruciating tonal contrast with the darkly absorbing Spectre meeting, and as a result takes me out of the picture.
Craig began to show an evident shortcoming with the delivery of the one-liners. His smartass comments sound very stuck-up, like the "except it did stop" that you mentioned, or even worse, "I was taking some overdue holiday." His delivery of that line was all wrong! Had this been Connery, Moore, or even Brosnan, this would not have been a problem...
Thank you @mattjoes. Very fine comment. And I wholeheartedly agree
But it is still #12 in my rankings and I do enjoy it until the London events.
We agree to disagree on the humor in the film, but I'd like to defend Craig's delivery of the "overdue holiday" line. It is uttered in the context of a scene in which M is reprimanding Bond over a very serious matter. M asks him what he was doing in Mexico City, and clarifies it is an official question. Bond is put on the spot. He replies he was taking a holiday, but the tone of his answer is not meant to be utterly cool and confident. It is meant to be defiant in the face of potential consequences to his career; after all, this is his boss we're talking about, not a villain. M knows Bond's answer is rubbish, and Bond knows he knows; therefore, on a subtextual level, he is saying "think whatever you want, do whatever you want, but I'm standing my ground here." Then M grounds him and Bond stands up quickly, both tense and frustrated, but manages to keep his cool and say "very good, Sir," with a diplomatic smile.
I think Daniel Craig's acting is appropriate for the scene. In my opinion, a comparison with between him and the other Bond actors is not merited here, since they never had to answer to M for disobedience. (In fact, one might take issue with Bond's disobedience in Spectre, but my point is that Craig plays the scene, and delivers the mentioned line, according to the requirements of the story as written.)
Are there people out there who really need all this explaining to them?
Awesome. The cat was one of the absolute best parts of SP; I hope as long as Blofeld is around, so is a cat for him.
1. The return of Mr.White
Love the whole storyline, his daughter and the the whole encounter with 007. To me, it's the real peak of SP - excellent.
2. Q "in the field" and in general
Great suspense scenes in the ski lift - a lot of fun in Q's "office". The type of humour of the classics is pretty much back and I like the new Q a lot. All scenes with him are great, IMHO
3. SPECTRE meeting in rome
Excellent setting, Blofeld in the shadow and the way all others react to his entrance. Until the "coocoo", it's just awesome.
4. Day Of The Dead
Very cool PTS until the title song appears.
5. Train fight
Bautista as henchman is just great and the train fight is one of the highlights in SP. Very well done - with a good ending (even Bond was rescued instead of rescueing himself)
6. L'americain
I know there's some controversy about it ... I really like it actually. I think it's a very good scene - eben I don't understan why Mr.White has no secret door to his hidden chamber and would have to re-cast and paint the wall every time he was visiting L'americain. I loved the "Who're you?" scene.
Unfortunately, that's about it for me but these highlights were pretty cool and I like to re-watch them ... (but I tend to skip everything else when re-watching the movie).
But sjee, those highlights are quite big chunks of the films :-D! More people should make a list like you did ;-).
I agree. And how casually Blofeld went back into discussing the torture he designed for Bond after revealing his identity really ramped up the tension in the scene for me, like the train was really moving at that point.
I really enjoy Spectre. My feelings on the film, summed up (and posted several times on other threads) basically is as follows: A very flawed film with a lot of missed opportunities, but also a lot of individual scenes and moments to love.
That's another thing @NickTwentyTwo : Comparing the CR torture sequence with the SP torture sequence. And then you see interesting differences between the characters Le Chiffre and Ernst Blofeld.
Le Chiffre obviously acted out of desperation. He had to get his money back to escape execution by QUANTUM's/SPECTRE's Mr White.
Ernst Stavro Blofeld however preferred the psychological....no....psychotic game. A bit like a modern-day Jozef Mengele. He used the physical torture as a parable to.....animals. Like a cuckoo (which is also reflected in Newman's music for the film) Blofeld tries to pull out the memories from Bond's loved ones. And he even draws analogies with the assassination of Señor Guerra.....like there was a short moment when there was...nothing inside Guerra's skull.
That's the nice thing of Bond villains. You have villains that act out of despair. But you also have villains that act entirely out of the psychotic fun they get from humiliating an enemy. And with a dash of revenge. Blofeld did that in FRWL (stinging Kronsteen to death), did that in TB (electrocuting a SPECTRE-member), did that in OHMSS (hanging someone, killing Tracy), and Waltz' Blofeld in SP did exactly the same.
Where the Silva's and Le Chiffre's in the end use physical violence, Blofeld does it with buttons....to let his hands stay clean. From an old 1960's button, to buttons on an i-Pad or on a computer: Blofeld uses violence in a more stylish way. A bit like the antichrist-version of Moore's Bond :-). And I enjoyed every inch of it.