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"SPECTRE" Appreciation Topic (...and why you think the 24th Bond film was the best spy film of 2015)

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  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited February 2016 Posts: 832
    Double post
  • A_KristatosA_Kristatos
    Posts: 110
    Ottofuse8 wrote: »
    I dont understand why people say that this movie got bad reviews, it got good reviews, and is a really good movie. I suppose people have really come to expect the best or are too sensitive to critisism, much of which is legitimate. This movie definitely didnt get bad reviews people. Also it doesnt have to be the best spy film of the year to be good, even if its bond. Spectre was way better than uncle, and better thsn kingsman. The only one that slightly beats it in my opinion was mi, and many are saying that they are very similar movies. I can definitely see the similarities but all in all they are very very different movies amd shouldnt be measured up against one another as if they are different tellins of the same story, because they are not, like at all.

    I agree. This is certainly not a universally loathed film, but based on a small vocal minority on these boards, you would think this is the worst Bond film of all time. Heck, maybe even the worst film of all time! But we all agree here that a movie with an over 60% favorable ratings is still a movie that the majority of viewers liked. And based on some reviews here, a good number of people loved this film as well.

    I don't know, maybe this is what happens when the media tries to paint this movie as a failure. Maybe a lot of people hear this and come away thinking this movie was a bomb. But that obviously couldn't be further from the truth. And as you said Otto, it was a better spy movie this than most of the other spy movies that were out this past year. And because of that, I think the Bond franchise is still in fine shape going into the future.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    In all honesty, we need to see things into perspective. Try and be daring to compare the last four Bond films with the films you got in the period 1982 - 2002. Then "SPECTRE" still holds up as a TOP 10 Bond film. Not TOP 5! But lower regions of TOP 10 for sure.

    You know, with today's social media society there's no nuance anymore......no honest comparisons. Just a "f&^k this is the worst Bond film ever!" or "wowww, what a diamonds this way!". Pff...
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    RC7 wrote: »
    Some great posts above. Nice to see not everyone thinks this movie is as flimsy and ill considered as others would have you believe.

    The first 100 minutes are brilliant. No doubt. I still have problems with the final act, but the Blofeld-Bond childhood connection doesn't bother me as much as it did the first time I saw the film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The Bond and Blofeld childhood connection has never bothered me, truly. Amongst some of the other issues I had with the film, that aspect was largely nonexistent. In fact, I wish it was given more time to breathe and develop, so that we could see Bond questioning far earlier whether Franz really was alive or if he was simply a victim of his own paranoia. I don't get why it's upset so many members either.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited February 2016 Posts: 10,591
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    The Bond and Blofeld childhood connection has never bothered me, truly. Amongst some of the other issues I had with the film, that aspect was largely nonexistent. In fact, I wish it was given more time to breathe and develop, so that we could see Bond questioning far earlier whether Franz really was alive or if he was simply a victim of his own paranoia. I don't get why it's upset so many members either.
    I'm with you. The whole idea of Blofeld wanting to sabotage every aspect of Bond's life because of his jealousy of Hannes' and Bond's relationship and the lack of fatherly attention he received highlights the level of pure insanity on his part.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2016 Posts: 28,694
    jake24 wrote: »
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »
    The Bond and Blofeld childhood connection has never bothered me, truly. Amongst some of the other issues I had with the film, that aspect was largely nonexistent. In fact, I wish it was given more time to breathe and develop, so that we could see Bond questioning far earlier whether Franz really was alive or if he was simply a victim of his own paranoia. I don't get why it's upset so many members either.
    I'm with you. The whole idea of Blofeld wanting to sabotage every aspect of Bond's life because of his jealousy of of Hannes' and Bond's relationship and the lack of fatherly attention he received highlights the level of pure insanity on his part.

    Definitely, @jake24. And as I said in a post on the last page, SF was all about matriarchies and motherhood, centered on M and the differing relationships Bond and Silva had with her. In SP's case, it's all about themes of fatherhood, especially when it comes to Hannes and Bond and Blofeld's disparate relationships with him. And of course, the relationship White and Madeleine share is its own complex and layered dynamic. Mendes and Logan sure seem to love the themes of family and the conflicts that can arise within that very complex structure.

    I'm both surprised and pleased that they didn't go all out in exploring Bond's relationship with his own parents in SF or even SP in some way. People complain all the time about a so-called saturation in that film of Bond's past, but literally the only thing we find out about him that we didn't already know (in this current mythology of Bond) is at what age his parents died, how he reacted to the news, and some details about the home in which he lived leading up to that formative moment. Just that, nothing more. That information is so barren for those like us, because we all know Bond's story better than anyone else and are aware of his boyhood tragedy and his Scottish upbringing, that I find it quite peculiar when people shout about the film sharing too much. I want to calm them down and express to them that we know next to nothing more, and that the precious mystery Bond carries is still very much well and good.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited February 2016 Posts: 832
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    In all honesty, we need to see things into perspective. Try and be daring to compare the last four Bond films with the films you got in the period 1982 - 2002. Then "SPECTRE" still holds up as a TOP 10 Bond film. Not TOP 5! But lower regions of TOP 10 for sure.

    You know, with today's social media society there's no nuance anymore......no honest comparisons. Just a "f&^k this is the worst Bond film ever!" or "wowww, what a diamonds this way!". Pff...

    Precisely! I didnt quite agree with the adoration of skyfall either, in the same way. (Both are good movies).
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    I think that too many times we're spiralling down into "comparison sickness".

    Well...
    Gustav_Graves wrote:
    There, for me "SPECTRE" is definately the best spy film of 2015.

    Well...
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Try and be daring to compare the last four Bond films with the films you got in the period 1982 - 2002.

    Well...
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    What do we actually think of "SPECTRE" if we compare it with these blockbusters of 2015?

    The problem with comparison afficonados is that most of their posts have then to trash other movies. Including other Bond movies. Much, much negativity.

    I won't quote all the negative words that have been used in this "appreciation topic", but please consider that without these topics, this forum has a much more positive vibe.

    This is a forum for Bond fans, this is not a forum for haters of everything that dares to earn more money than Bond.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    @Suivez_ce_parachute, before this Appreciation Thread was created, there was much more negativity being spewed about the film; it was when it first came out, everyone was seeing it and rushing back with their views, and a lot of them were negative or so-so. Thus, the thread was created, which really helped things out, as we had a lot of people leaving around the aforementioned time due to all the negativity. So no, a more "positive vibe" isn't contributed to a lack of appreciation topics, that's for sure.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    The film doesn't come out on Blu Ray until March 11th here. Same as 'The Force Awakens' which will be on home video in late June (!) in France. And as always during Oscar season, some films come out in cinema here months after the US (Steve Jobs and Spotlight has just been released here) so that means the Blu Ray of those won't come out until June/July here. I'm happy I have good patience otherwise I would download some films in an unpopular manner in order to get a few viewings at home before the Blu Ray come out.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    'Spotlight' and 'Steve Jobs' just hit Vudu for me, watching the latter right now. Shame that you won't get SP until mid-March, @DaltonCraig007! You could always go for a region-free, more expensive release from a different retailer that'll get a nice copy your way before that date, if you wanted.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited February 2016 Posts: 15,713
    Thanks for the suggesiton, @Creasy47! But the release is only 4 days before my birthday so I'm going to wait for it as a nice gift for my 1/4th of a century on this earth.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Thanks for the suggesiton, @Creasy47! But the release is only 4 days before my birthday so I'm going to wait for it as a nice gift for my 1/4th of a century on this earth.

    That should make for a wonderful birthday gift, then, and a hell of a way to celebrate!
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited February 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Suivez_ce_parachute, before this Appreciation Thread was created, there was much more negativity being spewed about the film; it was when it first came out, everyone was seeing it and rushing back with their views, and a lot of them were negative or so-so. Thus, the thread was created, which really helped things out, as we had a lot of people leaving around the aforementioned time due to all the negativity. So no, a more "positive vibe" isn't contributed to a lack of appreciation topics, that's for sure.

    I really hated that we lost some... anticipation was so high and we were all on edge. I waffle some on my opinion on the film but I did enjoy it a lot.

    As the emotion settles it seems to me our overall appreciation for the film increases.

    All just my opinion though ...I could be wrong.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    It's just a matter of everyone getting worked up over a new Bond release - some will love it, some will hate it, some will be in the middle. It's inevitable.
  • bondbat007bondbat007
    Posts: 1,407
    I just watched the new Honest Trailer for Spectre. It's meant to be funny and overly critical, so I'm fine with it. But then I read the comments for the video. People calling this "The first time I fell asleep at a theater" or "The Phantom Menace of Bond films". Did we watch the same film? I admit it's not perfect. But wow, it was an entertaining Bond adventure nowhere near the bad films like Live and Let Die, Moonraker, or Die Another Day. It just boggles my mind that the general consciences (it's everywhere) is that this film sucked.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It's really funny too. People wanted a more lighter, traditional Bond film. Spectre was just that and people said, It's not dark and gritty enough. The general public is an ass. :))

    I loved it. It's favorite Craig Bond movie and #2 in my ranking.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    bondbat007 wrote: »
    I just watched the new Honest Trailer for Spectre. It's meant to be funny and overly critical, so I'm fine with it. But then I read the comments for the video. People calling this "The first time I fell asleep at a theater" or "The Phantom Menace of Bond films". Did we watch the same film? I admit it's not perfect. But wow, it was an entertaining Bond adventure nowhere near the bad films like Live and Let Die, Moonraker, or Die Another Day. It just boggles my mind that the general consciences (it's everywhere) is that this film sucked.

    If they don't like it. It is always the "worst ever". Overreacting.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yes, in many ways SP is a case of the general public getting the special they ordered, directly followed by them signaling a waitress to take the dish back, stat. Human beings are a riot, aren't they?
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    edited February 2016 Posts: 832
    Thats the thing, audience feelings about this film were definitely polarized. I rank spectre above a lot of well respected films, so the idea that its the "phantom menace" of bond is just absurd and I cant quite understand how someone can think that. Its similar quality to skyfall, for example, which was basically universally adored.
  • FredJB007FredJB007
    Posts: 49
    I don't understand the negativity either. I've been fortunate to be around since the very beginning(I'm in my early 60's)and SPECTRE is in my Top Five of 007 Films. SPECTRE is a great Bond film. Skyfall is a very good film that happens to have James Bond in it. I appreciate it and the feeling grows with every viewing. In the States, we got it on iTunes on 1/22. Lucky us!
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Well I stick by my criticisms but worse film ever? That's absurd. People just like to be heard.

    Read the US Amazon customer reviews. Way more positive but mirrors what I think is the general consensus both in the US and UK.

    3.8 out of 5 stars. And #1 seller moniker on Amazon btw.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    When I saw Spectre it made me want to watch all the Bond films again and read all the continuation novels that I haven't got round to reading yet. That's how much I enjoyed it, it's not without its flaws for sure, but it was good.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Suivez_ce_parachute, before this Appreciation Thread was created, there was much more negativity being spewed about the film; it was when it first came out, everyone was seeing it and rushing back with their views, and a lot of them were negative or so-so. Thus, the thread was created, which really helped things out, as we had a lot of people leaving around the aforementioned time due to all the negativity. So no, a more "positive vibe" isn't contributed to a lack of appreciation topics, that's for sure.

    Thanks for your kind words @Creasy47 :-). I also posted some appreciation for "QOS" now.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    For the record I like SP and QS ...and DAD and TND. Gripes or not.
  • Tuck91Tuck91
    Posts: 1,680
    SP was just as well recieved as SF, it was the US that was hard & unfair on the film.

    Some of the same critics who slammed SP praised Furious 7, that I cannot comprehend.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,789
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    For the record I like SP and QS ...and DAD and TND. Gripes or not.

    =D>
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2016 Posts: 4,582
    Just noticed this little bit of dialogue that's very, very tellling:

    When Bond and Madeleine encounter Blofeld at the meteorite, Blofeld says this:

    "I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this. All of us here together. A reunion. I'm so glad you're here, too, dear Madeleine."

    Who's the "all of us," here? If Swann is the addition to the "us", who's US? Bond and Blofeld and their multiple selves? Blofeld's perception that hannes is still with them? All of the pairs of eyes on them? This is a great little nugget that further suggests Blofeld's insanity.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    Could just be him talking about a proper reunion amongst the three of them, since he saw Madeleine as a young girl whenever he visited Mr. White, and since both he and Bond grew up together and he hadn't properly seen him ever since (since no discussion takes place between the two at the Spectre meeting in Rome.)
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