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They're both pretty poor, no matter what standard they're held against. A damp squib in a film full of damp squibs.
I mean, so Yoda inspired him to use the force again, but not enough to get his ass off that Island. In the end he still turned his back on all of his friends. Leia and Rey could still have used his help. Not to mention that a real showdown with Kylo would have been greatly anticipated. But RJ wanted so badly to kill him off and it just felt contrived to me.
sitting on his own on a rock in the middle of nowhere and it seemed like an afterthought squeezed in rather than an essential part of the movie. Utterly hopeless. Just as angry as yesterday.
It’s sad when the prequels are better then these new ones, and the prequels are terrible.
It is always a danger though. Having said that? Look at how we all have our own opinions on how Bond should be.
While I agree the prequels are better, I myself still can't abide calling them terrible. The more I watch them the more I'm willing to defend them, somehow. I had another viewing around Christmas. The dialogue and acting are stilted (that goes without saying, whether Lucas intended it or not), but I can fairly easily get over it the more I watch them and the older they get. In terms of how films age I find acting is generally the first thing to lose the luster anyway. I'd rather focus on their visuals, sound design, music (for me the best work John Williams has ever done), and world-building. All of it leads to a certain undercurrent of richness that the OT even lacks and makes up for some of the other surface-level shortcomings.
Well that’s the only reason that prequels are watchable. The world building. That’s what these new ones lack.
'Luke doesn't die/ alternate ending edit'
If this is what I saw in the theater I would have been so excited for the next one (just like TFA)
That to me would have been the better option too.
I mean we lost Han, now we lost Luke (unless he’ll be back as a spirit) and we already know Leia won’t be in the next one.
We will see if these new characters are enough to carry the next movie alone.
That's exactly what I meant when I said you could take Luke's death out of the film and it wouldn't skip a beat. In fact this ending makes more sense because we see that Luke is using the Force again, which means that he cares again and he is ready to come back with a vengeance in Episode IX.
RJ really did us a disservice by killing off the most important character in the franchise in such a meaningless fashion.
With Luke it was more like:
Are we killing someone we care about each episode now, is that what we're doing? Can't wait for the next one then :|
What's most tiresome about this film for me is the blatant politicking and gender/race pandering. It's rather obvious and a bit tiresome. It would be helpful if major franchise offerings try to be a bit more subtle when making these sort of statements, and that applies to B25 as well (from what I understand, Danny Boyle is a film maker with strong political views).
Regarding Luke: his demise was as surprising and also as meaningless as Snoke's. I keep thinking they are both going to return in some way, shape or form in the next one.
Despite the flaws I still think it's top notch big budget Hollywood entertainment. Just not as good as one hoped it would be.
I too have my very first viewing yesterday since seeing in the theater.
Now that it's fresh in my noggin again, here's what I think.
There are lots of great, and even epic scenes, but unfortunately, for every great part there is an equally stupid part. And that KILLS me!!!!
After The Force Awakens, sitting in the theater as the credits rolled, I was bloodthirsty for the next one! Now I'm more like 'Hmmm... what is there left to do now?'
With regard to those force sensitive kids they went out of the way to show, (literally the last thing we see before the credits) I'm wondering if they will pull a fast one on us and make Episode IX take place 15 or even 20 years later? There's some serious potential there... Kylo Ren would be older and meaner (possibly insane from years of Luke's Spirit haunting him), Rey would be a true Jedi by then with possibly a bunch of new young heroes alongside her, and-not to sound morbid- that might make it easier to exclude Leia.
Anyway, that was just a thought I had.
Additionally, as you note, there was something about the comments Luke makes to Kylo about always being with him which indicates they would want to deal with that in the future.
Given all the twists they keep throwing at us, I wonder if it's Kylo who ends up being the hero at the end of it all, and Rey goes bad. There were subtle indications of that in TLJ and somehow she seems a less empathetic character than he does to me.
I only got to see TLJ in theaters once, I intended to see it one or two more times but was too busy. I just bought it on blu-ray the other day and will be watching soon. I'll be back here to give my thoughts once I'm done.
As it stands right now my order is...
The Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Revenge of the Sith
Return of the Jedi
The Last Jedi
Attack of the Clones
Rogue One
The Phantom Menace
Much better experience this time though