Blade Runner 2049/Blade Runner 2099 Live-Action Sequel Series Discussion

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This is understandable though. Like what they did with SW-TFA or JW, when coming back to an old classic, it makes sense to evoke it subconsciously. As long as the plot is different, I can live with it. After all the visuals in the original were quite stunning. It's a Philip Dick futuristic world (similar to Total Recall).
  • Posts: 676
    The "evoking" is happening on a level that's a bit more than subconscious, though! When the first trailer hit, I kinda shrugged and thought "eh this just looks like more of the same." Boring. I don't like seeing visuals lifted almost straight from the original. I was hoping for something radically different from the first, after all it's been 30 years in the chronology.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The thing is geeks like us notice these things. The general public probably won't and so they will go in to the theatre and just have an overall sense of familiarity with what they're seeing.

    I agree that it seems a tad too familiar in that montage, but then again if I hadn't seen that, I wouldn't have noticed all the similarities.

    A back to back home video viewing likely won't go down all that well unless the plots are very different.
  • Posts: 676
    Repeating visuals just draws unflattering comparisons. I'd rather see something new. I mean really, are any of these better than - or even on par with - the iconic originals? For me, the answer is a very firm "no."

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I'm going to give this production its time to further develop (even though post-production is probably reaching its final stages) and then watch the film--if possible more than once--and then pass my verdict. Meanwhile, I'll be thinking about what it is I want out of a BR sequel. The formal answer would be, "nothing", since I never wanted a sequel in the first place; but because this sequel is a fact, and given my undying support for Villeneuve since Enemy, Prisoners, Sicario and Arrival, I'll contemplate my expectations, knowing full well that Villeneuve is likely to surprise me yet.

    The visual comparisons in @Milovy's post tend to invite some scepticism, though I must admit that Deakens is on my short list of cinematographers in whom I confide almost unconditionally.

    As stated before, the ultimate exercise for the filmmakers is to resemble the original but not too much, to keep things within the spirit of the original but not without bringing something new too. And we, as BR geeks, can be a difficult lot. Maybe we should accept it as a foregone conclusion that we will either be this film's most avid supporters, or its most vocal haters. If I were in Villeneuve's shoes, I'd most likely hope that those who, like me, worship at the altar of BR, watch the film only when they're having a good day. ;-)
  • Posts: 676
    Don't get me wrong, I'll be happy to go see it. Even if I don't like it, that wouldn't diminish the original for me. It's nice that a sequel is getting made at all and I'm certainly curious and even excited to see another story set in that world. (I do still think they are shooting themselves in the foot by repeating iconic visuals, though.)
  • Posts: 6,432
    I was obsessed with Blade Runner as a kid the visuals were amazing and still are, the film looks incredible on Bluray. Did we need a sequel personally I don't think we do, I fear the ambiguity of the original film has already been taken away, though I cant deny the trailer looks impressive.
  • Milovy wrote: »
    Repeating visuals just draws unflattering comparisons. I'd rather see something new. I mean really, are any of these better than - or even on par with - the iconic originals? For me, the answer is a very firm "no."

    I agree, the answer is "no" for me as well. Artistically, visually, musically, Blade Runner was always going to be a towering pinnacle of excellence that any sequel, prequel, remake could only hope on a wish and a prayer to live up to a tenth of. 2049 is really going to have to do something special in the story department to justify its existence. That said, I very much so agree that this shot-for-shot mimicry (which I'm sure will not be the totality of the film) was not their best move. I'd like to see something set in the same world and with the same feel, but not the same film. If I want Blade Runner I will watch Blade Runner, not 2049. Hoping the film proves to be its own beast.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 676
    I'd like to see something set in the same world and with the same feel, but not the same film. If I want Blade Runner I will watch Blade Runner, not 2049. Hoping the film proves to be its own beast.
    Very much agreed.

    It seems like even more of a shame to repeat shots when the original was so innovative. Man, if there's any place to shoot for innovation, where you can feel safe exploring new territory, it's the world of Blade Runner. This isn't the Highlander or Alien franchise - it shouldn't just be reheated leftovers.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Aren't we getting a little worried in advance now? Perhaps the trailers are a selection of "welcome home" shots, while the complete film may deliver a far more stand-alone thing.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 5,767
    Milovy wrote: »
    The "evoking" is happening on a level that's a bit more than subconscious, though! When the first trailer hit, I kinda shrugged and thought "eh this just looks like more of the same." Boring. I don't like seeing visuals lifted almost straight from the original. I was hoping for something radically different from the first, after all it's been 30 years in the chronology.
    Well, it would be kind of very odd if a gigantomanic building like the Tyrell building wouldn´t be constructed to last centuries.


    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm going to give this production its time to further develop (even though post-production is probably reaching its final stages) and then watch the film--if possible more than once--and then pass my verdict. Meanwhile, I'll be thinking about what it is I want out of a BR sequel. The formal answer would be, "nothing", since I never wanted a sequel in the first place; but because this sequel is a fact, and given my undying support for Villeneuve since Enemy, Prisoners, Sicario and Arrival, I'll contemplate my expectations, knowing full well that Villeneuve is likely to surprise me yet.

    The visual comparisons in @Milovy's post tend to invite some scepticism, though I must admit that Deakens is on my short list of cinematographers in whom I confide almost unconditionally.

    As stated before, the ultimate exercise for the filmmakers is to resemble the original but not too much, to keep things within the spirit of the original but not without bringing something new too. And we, as BR geeks, can be a difficult lot. Maybe we should accept it as a foregone conclusion that we will either be this film's most avid supporters, or its most vocal haters. If I were in Villeneuve's shoes, I'd most likely hope that those who, like me, worship at the altar of BR, watch the film only when they're having a good day. ;-)
    If you ask me, I wouldn´t be fascinated by the original BR if the acting, the story and the storytelling weren´t as compelling as the visuals. So I completely agree that I wouldn´t want to judge BR2049 before I´ve seen it a number of times.


    Milovy wrote: »
    Repeating visuals just draws unflattering comparisons. I'd rather see something new. I mean really, are any of these better than - or even on par with - the iconic originals? For me, the answer is a very firm "no."

    I agree, the answer is "no" for me as well. Artistically, visually, musically, Blade Runner was always going to be a towering pinnacle of excellence that any sequel, prequel, remake could only hope on a wish and a prayer to live up to a tenth of. 2049 is really going to have to do something special in the story department to justify its existence. That said, I very much so agree that this shot-for-shot mimicry (which I'm sure will not be the totality of the film) was not their best move. I'd like to see something set in the same world and with the same feel, but not the same film. If I want Blade Runner I will watch Blade Runner, not 2049. Hoping the film proves to be its own beast.
    I´m really surprised by how many people seem to know the original BR trailer by heart, that they can be bothered by the resemblance of the new one. I mean, we´re talking about a) a 30-year-old trailer, and b) a trailer which in both cases doesn´t give away the story at all. What I get from the new railer is that over the last 30 years a lot of fog seems to have been accumulated over L.A.. Whether that´s a cheap disguise for bad visual style, or it will contribute to the overall ambience of the film, we will only see in the complete product.


    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Aren't we getting a little worried in advance now? Perhaps the trailers are a selection of "welcome home" shots, while the complete film may deliver a far more stand-alone thing.
    My thoughts exactly. Villeneuve is known very much for his storytelling, not for 80s Scott visual extravaganzas. Noone who saw Villeneuves previous films I think would seriously expect him to all of a sudden completely drop his strengths and go into a completely new direction for him. That´s certainly not what they contracted him for.

  • Posts: 676
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Aren't we getting a little worried in advance now? Perhaps the trailers are a selection of "welcome home" shots, while the complete film may deliver a far more stand-alone thing.
    You may be right. But they release these trailers and other promo materials to sell the movie, to get people excited. It's fine if the opposite effect occurs, that I become slightly skeptical based on the trailer's contents. I hope that 2049 will rise above an exercise in nostalgia, be more than the cinematic equivalent of comfort food. (I'm quite sure that it will.) To say that I'm "worried" about the film is a bit much. I worry about my health and about my finances. I don't worry about movies. ;)
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Well, it would be kind of very odd if a gigantomanic building like the Tyrell building wouldn´t be constructed to last centuries.
    Good point.
    boldfinger wrote: »
    I´m really surprised by how many people seem to know the original BR trailer by heart, that they can be bothered by the resemblance of the new one. I mean, we´re talking about a) a 30-year-old trailer, and b) a trailer which in both cases doesn´t give away the story at all. What I get from the new railer is that over the last 30 years a lot of fog seems to have been accumulated over L.A.. Whether that´s a cheap disguise for bad visual style, or it will contribute to the overall ambience of the film, we will only see in the complete product.
    Har har. I compared a handful of incredibly iconic images, not the whole trailer. And no complaining about the excessive fog! You don't know that it's a cheap disguise for bad visual style. Maybe they will have a very good story-related reason for the fog. No premature judging!
  • boldfinger wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Repeating visuals just draws unflattering comparisons. I'd rather see something new. I mean really, are any of these better than - or even on par with - the iconic originals? For me, the answer is a very firm "no."

    I agree, the answer is "no" for me as well. Artistically, visually, musically, Blade Runner was always going to be a towering pinnacle of excellence that any sequel, prequel, remake could only hope on a wish and a prayer to live up to a tenth of. 2049 is really going to have to do something special in the story department to justify its existence. That said, I very much so agree that this shot-for-shot mimicry (which I'm sure will not be the totality of the film) was not their best move. I'd like to see something set in the same world and with the same feel, but not the same film. If I want Blade Runner I will watch Blade Runner, not 2049. Hoping the film proves to be its own beast.
    I´m really surprised by how many people seem to know the original BR trailer by heart, that they can be bothered by the resemblance of the new one. I mean, we´re talking about a) a 30-year-old trailer, and b) a trailer which in both cases doesn´t give away the story at all. What I get from the new railer is that over the last 30 years a lot of fog seems to have been accumulated over L.A.. Whether that´s a cheap disguise for bad visual style, or it will contribute to the overall ambience of the film, we will only see in the complete product.

    Lol, I don't know the original trailer by heart. I'm not comparing the new trailer to the old trailer anyway, nor am I drawing story-based comparisons. So little has been revealed about 2049's story anything in that regard would be pure speculation.

    I'm talking about shot composition. The framing of images. There appear to be a good number of identically or near identically recreated shots from the original Blade Runner (the film, not the trailer, although it doesn't really matter which). Recreations along the lines of Van Sant's carbon-copied Psycho. I've conceded that this surely will not be the case for the totality of the film. Nonetheless, I don't need a sequel to be repeating exact shot composition from the original. What's it for? What's the point? Apart from nostalgia, which is about the dumbest and most marketing-friendly reason possible. Did Aliens repeat shot composition from Alien to hark back to the good old times and let you know you're watching an Alien film? How about The Lost World and Jurassic Park? The Dark Knight and Batman Begins? Dawn of the Dead and Night of the Living Dead? Just refer back to the original where you need to and get on with telling the new story. Any referencing should not happen at the level of shot composition—or if it does, it should be intelligently and sparingly deployed. Repeating shot composition actually draws attention to the artificiality of the film. It's a technique that could be put to good use. But it certainly appears overdone in the trailer and the vibe I'm getting is that it's nostalgia-driven rather than storytelling- or art-driven.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    bondsum wrote: »
    Spot the similarities between the original vs the new trailer side-by-side. There's a striking similarity between the two shot for shot...

    http://www.imdb.com/list/ls053181649/videoplayer/vi245020953?ref_=vi_nxt_btn

    The same is true for the remake of Stephen King's "It"; the two trailers are almost identical.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I always saw the fog as pollution of some kind.
  • Posts: 5,767
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    Repeating visuals just draws unflattering comparisons. I'd rather see something new. I mean really, are any of these better than - or even on par with - the iconic originals? For me, the answer is a very firm "no."

    I agree, the answer is "no" for me as well. Artistically, visually, musically, Blade Runner was always going to be a towering pinnacle of excellence that any sequel, prequel, remake could only hope on a wish and a prayer to live up to a tenth of. 2049 is really going to have to do something special in the story department to justify its existence. That said, I very much so agree that this shot-for-shot mimicry (which I'm sure will not be the totality of the film) was not their best move. I'd like to see something set in the same world and with the same feel, but not the same film. If I want Blade Runner I will watch Blade Runner, not 2049. Hoping the film proves to be its own beast.
    I´m really surprised by how many people seem to know the original BR trailer by heart, that they can be bothered by the resemblance of the new one. I mean, we´re talking about a) a 30-year-old trailer, and b) a trailer which in both cases doesn´t give away the story at all. What I get from the new railer is that over the last 30 years a lot of fog seems to have been accumulated over L.A.. Whether that´s a cheap disguise for bad visual style, or it will contribute to the overall ambience of the film, we will only see in the complete product.

    Lol, I don't know the original trailer by heart. I'm not comparing the new trailer to the old trailer anyway, nor am I drawing story-based comparisons. So little has been revealed about 2049's story anything in that regard would be pure speculation.

    I'm talking about shot composition. The framing of images. There appear to be a good number of identically or near identically recreated shots from the original Blade Runner (the film, not the trailer, although it doesn't really matter which). Recreations along the lines of Van Sant's carbon-copied Psycho. I've conceded that this surely will not be the case for the totality of the film. Nonetheless, I don't need a sequel to be repeating exact shot composition from the original. What's it for? What's the point? Apart from nostalgia, which is about the dumbest and most marketing-friendly reason possible. Did Aliens repeat shot composition from Alien to hark back to the good old times and let you know you're watching an Alien film? How about The Lost World and Jurassic Park? The Dark Knight and Batman Begins? Dawn of the Dead and Night of the Living Dead? Just refer back to the original where you need to and get on with telling the new story. Any referencing should not happen at the level of shot composition—or if it does, it should be intelligently and sparingly deployed. Repeating shot composition actually draws attention to the artificiality of the film. It's a technique that could be put to good use. But it certainly appears overdone in the trailer and the vibe I'm getting is that it's nostalgia-driven rather than storytelling- or art-driven.
    Fair enough. I get a nice balance of nostalgic and new from that trailer comparison. The new images look so different in execution to me from the original BR that it seems not out of place to try to remind me that this film has to do with the original BR.

  • Posts: 5,767
    http://collider.com/blade-runner-2049-featurette/

    Featurette with about 4 min of new footage. Near the end there´s kind of a minor spoiler I believe, shortly after Ford says, "Who´d you bring?"

    By now I don´t care anymore if or how much BR2049 will copy or rip from BR. This looks just too ridiculously good.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2017 Posts: 15,718
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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Do the hippy hippy shake!
  • Posts: 5,767
    Funny I see that new pic uploaded now. Just last night I had a premonition that this film will make my day and year :-).
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Not sure we need a sequel, but this looks good.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Not sure how I feel about this one. I think that the original Blade Runner deserved sequels, as the thing I wanted more of after seeing it was a better idea of what that world was. You didn't have to have Deckard back, but it would've been cool to see some prequels that showed him in the old days facing off with different kinds of replicants to contrast the bitter, more compassionate man he (supposedly) becomes in the original. Or you could've just shown new Blade Runners in a new story, which the man who left only being referenced in a throwaway line.

    I would've just liked to see other stories from that compelling world, because we never got to see the off-world riots led by the replicants, or all the ways that they were used as slaves to society. Because we don't get a good enough sense of this it's hard to get behind Roy and his crew, and I think the original needed more world building of that kind to make me care.

    I guess that because the movie originally was such an all around failure the promise of sequels was down the can, and so the ideas left behind in the first film were unable to be explored any longer with such a dead brand. A shame, as I think it's too late to go back now. Of course, maybe the culture of the day (and the interests of audiences) are more ready for a Blade Runner type world? It's hard to tell, but I still don't see it being a financial juggernaut, and with just the chance to impress critically.



    As for Blade Runner: 2049, I can't say I'm interested by the idea and nothing from the trailer really grips me. It's also a shame to see a practically made movie get a sequel that could overindulge in too many computer effects, since the original is probably the best example of non-computer effects you could ever find.

    I am at least interested to see how the movie will explain what has happened in the many decades since the original, especially since the same writer is returning, like...

    *Deckard must certainly not be a replicant, because he wouldn't be around in this world if he was. This has always been an illogical theory from the original that makes no sense no matter how much Ridley wants it to, but would the writers really be able to overwrite the "creator" of the film to craft a story that goes against his final cut revelation? I personally hope so, as I'm in the "Deckard isn't a replicant" camp, not only for what doesn't add up if it's true, but also because him being human is more interesting to me and more in touch with the noir genre it endlessly homages. As Harrison says, we needed a human to connect to in that world, and it should be Deckard.

    *I do like the idea of Gosling's character being a fresh Blade Runner seeking out the legendary old one. I have to be honest though, because when Deckard tells the guy that he used to be good when they first meet, I can't help but chuckle. He seemed like the worst detective and/or tough guy ever in the original, and so I can't credibly believe that he could still be around for so long. I'm sure the new film will amp up the action in the film to compensate for why some don't like the original (which was mis-marketed as an action/sci-fi movie to be fair). I just worry that it'll take over the lore, which is why I want to see it. I hope that at the very least we get to see Deckard kick some ass this time, to show that he can actually do the job he was lauded for, but that we never got to see proven.

    *I want the film to actually have substantial thematic content, regarding ideas about time, mortality, choice and all the rest, that the original only brushed the top of. I know it's sometimes referred to as a dazzling intellectual wonder of thematic storytelling, but I feel the execution was very uneven and at times empty, and I want this movie to build on what the original started by having more powerful messages.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I'm sure since you seemed to loathe the original, this new one definitely won't be for you. Who knows, though. My ass will be in theaters day one for it.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'm sure since you seemed to loathe the original, this new one definitely won't be for you. Who knows, though. My ass will be in theaters day one for it.

    I wouldn't say loathe, just shocked that it got/gets so much praise. I'll have a give and take relationship with Blade Runner, returning to it now and again to see if there's a spark that can grow into a bigger flame there. It helps that there's about fifty-thousand different cuts, so I've yet to have the full experience.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Yes, it helps to manage to step off with only one version. I intuitively felt drawn to the final cut version, and I can watch it endlessly. I think as a teen I once saw the theatrical version on vhs, I doubt I´d be fond of that one today, because of the voice-over. Never saw any other version.
    I recently somehow managed to decide for myself, at least preliminarily, between the theatrical and director´s cut version of Alien. Aliens I´m still not decided on, but that´s not such a big problem, because they´re so different essentially that maybe I can go with both off them.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think that the theatrical Blade Runner is good for getting all the details of the story down (through the narration), and then when you know everything, you no longer really need it. I think that makes the final cut an easier watch, as there isn't so much content you feel is being hidden from you.
  • Posts: 5,767
    I never had the feeling there´s anything hidden from me in the final cut. And I don´t remember much of the theatrical cut, except that some implications are quite different from the final cut. So I don´t think the theatrical cut helps explain the final cut, whereas I think that everything I need to know in order to understand the final cut is there in the final cut.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    boldfinger wrote: »
    I never had the feeling there´s anything hidden from me in the final cut. And I don´t remember much of the theatrical cut, except that some implications are quite different from the final cut. So I don´t think the theatrical cut helps explain the final cut, whereas I think that everything I need to know in order to understand the final cut is there in the final cut.

    I guess I just mean context, to make the characters feel like more than blank slates, which was my issue with the film when I saw it.
  • Posts: 5,767
    I´m not sure if I ever felt anything like that, but for me BR right away was a film for multiple viewing, something that would unfold over time.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    boldfinger wrote: »
    I´m not sure if I ever felt anything like that, but for me BR right away was a film for multiple viewing, something that would unfold over time.

    I agree on that, for sure. Now that my head has cooled I don't view it as critically as I initially did, where I just had shock at what I saw. At this point I'm more ready to get back into it and see if there's more I can appreciate beyond the visuals and Rutger.
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