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Because, @Murdock, if I didn't know you better, I'd say you could then be at the front line of some goofy attempt to abuse rather than use science with the purpose of rationalising the existence of ghosts. You'd be submitting half-truths and false-truths which may sound 'clever' enough to many who are subsequently fooled into thinking that science has proven the existence of ghosts. The Internet is littered with pseudo-scientific support for Creationism, alien presence on Earth, ... Those who spread fantasy can at least have the decency to communicate said fantasy via the typical tools and jargon of fantasy. To chop up science, pick the elements that are useful and clumsily piece together an incoherent "scientific" theory for the supernatural is an insult to those who produce empirical evidence, search for repeatable patterns, formulate hypotheses, submit those hypotheses to a rigid set of experiments and peer evaluation and then, perhaps, draw a conclusion.
If I was a believer, I would deny to high heaven what science had come up with as a retort to my beliefs. If all my heart and soul was invested in the idea that my life had a great meaning, that I would be going to heaven when I died and that I would be able to see all the friends and family I've lost...Well good lord, you wouldn't be able to tell me where to sign fast enough.
A little education, and a lot of clarity and growing up in certain areas, however, and a lot of long nights filled with depression and anxiety make the truth come to you mighty quick. Come to think of it, I can't really remember believing in anything like a God or anything of that ilk in the first place. Everything faith wise began and ended with Santa when I was a kid. Belief always comes from that same place that believing in Santa does, though. It's a comforting idea and image to cling to when the world fails to make any sense to you. The church is a meeting ground for people to find the meaning they need to have in their lives and need to believe to get through the day with any modicum of hope, because the alternative-of none of it being true-is too much to bear the thought of.
But once the veil is removed and you know, you know for good, and then nothing else really feels the same afterward. It's quite empty feeling actually, and I think as good as knowledge is to have, feeling empty can often be the biggest result of acquiring it. There's a great darkness to being studious and well learned, because before long the stories we tell ourselves as a culture soon reveal themselves to be just that-stories, and nothing more.
So, do ghosts exist or not?
Just for the record, I am saying that I am right in what I say.
But as most of these posts are debating the reality of ghosts, I insist on being the last man standing. For the life of me, I can't believe what I'm reading in some posts! This isn't as innocent as people may think. Even the slightest ounce of faith in the existence of an afterlife renders one potentially dangerous, for if that belief is passed on to offspring, and if said offspring runs with it in more extreme ways, we might end up with world leaders who are prone to superstition and whatnot. We really wouldn't want that, now would we? Are we going to put ghost believers in command of our military fleets, of an arsenal of nuclear weapons, of our tax money, ... ?
"Sir, you still need to sign that peace treaty for ..."
"Not today, Shirley. The ghost of Aunt Dolly paid me a visit tonight and whispered in my ear that I should nuke Cuba for the benefit of our children."
To be fair, it's already happened. You'd be shocked and maybe surprised at how religious so many in government are. In America this is incredibly evident.
I think it's important to understand why people think like that, though. Which I haven't seen a lot of sympathy for in some respects.
But consider the deserts of Ethiopia and other areas hit by dreadful famine. How many hundreds of thousands of humans (including kids) have died in horrible pain and agony? These deserts should be awash with ghosts? Are ghost hunters heading out there? No, they stick to little pubs, castles and all the other Scooby Doo type backdrops. If people want to believe in ghosts, then they really should then go on and consider all of the impications of that belief.
PS anyone spotted ghosts of cavemen? no reason why not.
I'd say it comes from a far more emotional place. People connect the existence of ghosts to those they've lost; grandfathers and grandmothers, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters. It's a comforting thought that maybe a chance exists to see those who've departed again in another life.
Some skeptics are so overly scientific in their retorts to believers that they become just as heartless and cold as the numbers they jot on a chalk board, numb to the cultural reasons why these beliefs persist, and they can often be unconsciously cruel because of it. I don't attribute the beliefs of these folks as veritable hypotheses, but I understand why they are latched on to as truths. Life is piss poor and any meaning we can find in it-artificial or otherwise-to motivate us to get up every day and not crumble under the weight of its many challenges is understandable to me. Because of this I think people err when they regard certain believers as simpletons. They're just trying to figure out this crazy thing we call existence alongside us.
If life is so hard for some that they have to invent ghosts, then we need to look at the issues and try to improve things rather than shrug our shoulders. At a species level, it is hardly a compliment to mankind as a whole that we have to invent myths to survive. Other species just get on with it (I am sure there are some who beleive in animal ghosts?).
We have to strive to deal with the reality of our lonely (at a universal level) existance.
Debating is fine, but it's how we do it that can cause issue. Insults get tossed around, one calls another an idiot. It can seldom end well when debaters act in such a fashion.
It's clear the world needs fixing, though we're better evolved than our ancestors in many educational and social respects, so we are growing, however slowly.
As for differences across species, as humans we are both blessed and cursed with sentience and analytical thinking. We slip up and back ourselves into corners, but we're thinking things out. It's important always to question. The moment we think we're an expert on something or an issue or experience appears black and white to our eyes, we must readjust. Life is nothing if not a roller coaster of shifting perceptions, sparked by our own personal growth as humans, the new experiences we have and people we meet. I think we forget more and more each day that we're all part of the same ecosystem, trying our damnedest to make sense of this thing called life. But at least we're lost and questioning together, which is a helluva lot less frightening than any alternatives.
Pat this over 10 years ago. No way I can get all this now. As I said I recommended the audio equipment. He paid I purchased, it was me who took the mic and HD recorded out of its box and it was me operating it at the time. It was a brand new device 1st time in use. Interesting you mention the police. This happened weeks ago
Officers filed reports. Crazy to risk looking stupid and losing their jobs if they are part of a conspiracy.
Sorry to blow your mind Pat but there is also zero evidence for how we came to be. How can we dismiss anything when on a universal level we know so little?
Fleming said he doesn't give two waggles of a dogs tale he's too busy picking up cloud women in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
Yes, we have little idea of how the universe began but we are working on it. It's been mentioned before but using our ignorance in one field in an attempt to justify the existence of something else makes zero sense.
"We dont know how the universe started, therefore , we need to be open minded regarding the claim that some pigs can fly."
Thats clearly a bonkers statement. We have zero evidence for thinking that some pigs can fly and it goes against what we know re the laws of nature.
Its exactly the same , tired thing re God. "We don't know how the universe started, therefore, it could be God".
Is it possible ghosts exist? Yes, its possibe, together with the other infinite theories and propositions that cannot be disproved. (you do know I have in invisible, silent Dragon living in my garage and he moves into a new dimension when someone opens the door, he's there right now). You want to be open minded on that or have your already decided? Because you can't disprove my claim.
But it's not my role to disprove ghosts. Just as I dont have to disprove fairies at the end of my garden, Nessy, UFO abductions etc etc just as you dont have to disprove the dragon in my garage.
Well that's a bummer since you had proof of the supernatural. 10 years and it is lost.
The other thing is even if your claim was true (and I don't doubt your sincerity neither the one of other witnesses) we would still be perfectly justified disbelieving it due to very unreliable evidence.
Even bigger bummer you didn't go public as the bloke who proved ghosts exist as you could have made millions. Also rather careless you happened to misplace this earth shattering evidence.
This thread really is staggering. Its not @Balje or @Mendes who are posting here but people like @Dragonpol and @SirHilary who normally able to hold coherent and nuanced™ debates.
I thought rejection of reason only went on in the developing world and large swathes of America but no, it seems it's utterly rife around these parts too.
It's rather depressing quite frankly.
PS the dragon in my garage spoke to me ten years ago for the only time, and I recorded it but, unfortunately , I lost the tape.
I am not a scientist, I am a doctor in literature and while I did not specialize in supernatural fiction I do know a thing or two about it and I have a keen interest in ghost stories, whether it is supernatural fiction, legends or even claims of real hauntings. While the ghost is a fascinating concept, at the core of it there is the notion of wish fulfillment: its presence turns mundane (sometimes to the point of being oppressive) life into something exciting and mysterious.
Well, it wasn't all a waste then.