Do you believe in ghosts?

Thunderfinger

Most nediums, maybe all, are frauds.

patb

They should be in prison but the legal arena won't touch it as the onus of proof is on the state so effectively, the state would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they are not speaking to spirits.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff

Thunderpussy

So belivers in ghosts, believe mediums who cummicate with them are frauds ? :))

Thunderfinger

I don t understand what s so funny.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Thunderfinger wrote: »

I don t understand what s so funny.

What's funny is that the people that believe in ghosts should be looking to mediums and holding them up to non-believers as proof that a connection with spirits is happening every day to people, but instead you are discounting the mediums and calling them frauds

A bit of a missed opportunity to say, "See, you can communicate with the dead." ;)

Dragonpol

I was going to start a thread on fraudulent mediums actually. Perhaps I should?

Ludovico

Thunderfinger wrote: »

The eyes are but lenses. The vision occurs in the brain, which is an electromagnetic receiver/transmitter. Some brains may be tuned a little differently.

So now we have people with special brains. That is a lot of speculations. And you have not yet demonstrated that there are such things as ghosts. So how does one detects them and how can we differenciate true ghosts from delusions, hallucinations and confirmation bias?

Thunderpussy

To see them it helps to be wearing a tinfoil hat. As it tunes those images in the brain.

Dragonpol

I personally believe that anyone can see a ghost providing their eyesight is good of course. That's the only caveat I'd put on it really. The same goes for any other type of paranormal experience too, mind.

Thunderpussy

I believe people can see " something" calling it a ghost, is a personal choice. Why would
people with poor eyesight be unable to see a "ghost" ?

Dragonpol

Thunderpussy wrote: »

I believe people can see " something" calling it a ghost, is a personal choice. Why would
people with poor eyesight be unable to see a "ghost" ?

Well, if they were badly visually impaired is all I meant by that statement. Nothing more.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

I really hope this "special brain" nonsense doesn't prove to be scientifically and medically viable down the line. This world is full of enough egotists, and the last thing we need is people walking out of a doctor's appointment where they got a brain scan shouting, "My doc sayz I'z gots a speshal brane."

Thunderpussy

No problem @Dragonpol, like yourself, this is a subject I'm interested in, perhaps coming
from a different angle, as I'm interested in why people put the interpretation of Ghost,
Angel, Alien on what they think they've seen as opposed to coming to a more mundane
conclusion.
I also have a history in magic, and mind reading tricks etc so hate to see how some
People are ripped off by frauds.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

@Thunderpussy, you're carrying on Houdini's work against frauds. Good on you!

Thunderpussy

:)) not only him, James Randi, Penn and Teller, Chris Angel and many
more magicians. Have constantly tried to inform the public, People
can be so easily fooled, which is fine for an entertainment show, not
to feed of the grief of the bereaved ..... probably why I get so angry about
it.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

@Thunderpussy, absolutely. I've lost a lot of hours in the past watching videos of James Randi absolutely decimating frauds left and right.

Dragonpol

Now this is something I do agree on - the majority, if not all psychics, are frauds!

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

So we're all in agreement that these people are pustules for lying to grieving and hopeless folks in an attempt to give them a false sense of security in exchange for money and entertainment? Good. ;)

patb

"I'm getting a J......a J..............is there a John in the room? or someone who had a father called John....or a relative?"
"My old neighbour was called john"
"Yes, thats it....he is here"

Dragonpol

patb wrote: »

"I'm getting a J......a J..............is there a John in the room? or someone who had a father called John....or a relative?"
"My old neighbour was called john"
"Yes, thats it....he is here"

You really need to see High Spirits! with Shirley Ghostman. Completely satirises the whole thing.

Thunderpussy

It's amazing how accurate you can be with some knowledge of body language and a
few "Cold reading" statements.

patb

Thunderpussy wrote: »

It's amazing how accurate you can be with some knowledge of body language and a
few "Cold reading" statements.

Plus an active, willing and gullible audience.

Dragonpol

Thunderpussy wrote: »

It's amazing how accurate you can be with some knowledge of body language and a
few "Cold reading" statements.

Indeed, cold reading is their main tactic. That and BS. It takes them a long way.

TheWizardOfIce

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »

Boys, what are your thoughts on the morality and ethics of mediums? It's a dilemma that interests and perplexes me from time to time.

Is it okay for mediums to lie to their client if those lies give the person comfort, like telling them their loved one is at peace, there is a heaven, etc., or is it absolutely wrong on every conceivable account that they manipulate people emotionally in these ways and they should be taken to great task on it?

I flip flop on this issue from time to time. While in moments I think some need those feelings of comfort, other times I'm downright pissed off that some mediums manipulate the emotions of others and engage in shyster tactics with these people who are thirsting for any hope, especially those mediums with TV shows that are already involved in some form of exploitation for entertainment cruelty anyway.

You might as well level the same charge at all religious clergy.

If you're locking mediums up for bullshitting the gullible to make them feel better about the bleakness of death then anyone who works in the 'religion' industry needs a much stiffer sentence.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

The worst thing is that in the internet age where so much of a person's background and life (as well as their relatives) can be studied intensely, mediums have all the data at their disposal that they need to successfully trick their clients into thinking they've really connected with "the other side."

TheWizardOfIce wrote: »

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote: »

Boys, what are your thoughts on the morality and ethics of mediums? It's a dilemma that interests and perplexes me from time to time.

Is it okay for mediums to lie to their client if those lies give the person comfort, like telling them their loved one is at peace, there is a heaven, etc., or is it absolutely wrong on every conceivable account that they manipulate people emotionally in these ways and they should be taken to great task on it?

I flip flop on this issue from time to time. While in moments I think some need those feelings of comfort, other times I'm downright pissed off that some mediums manipulate the emotions of others and engage in shyster tactics with these people who are thirsting for any hope, especially those mediums with TV shows that are already involved in some form of exploitation for entertainment cruelty anyway.

You might as well level the same charge at all religious clergy.

If you're locking mediums up for bullshitting the gullible to make them feel better about the bleakness of death then anyone who works in the 'religion' industry needs a much stiffer sentence.

Of course, Wiz, but this thread was mainly for paranormal talk (at the moment at least) so I thought to aim my issues on these faux mediums first.

Looking back into the history of the Vatican you had the brilliant Borgia who (like these present day mediums) knew the bible was full of shit and schemed his way into money and power by playing the public for the fools they were. Now we have popes who seem to suck it all up as fact, when the opportunity exists for them to play some good old fashioned mind-game trickery with their followers instead. They're missing out on great fun, I must say.

SirHilaryBray

Ludovico wrote: »

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

patb wrote: »

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

100% exist. I used to laugh at people. I am a sound engineer by trade, and my friend who attempted to create his own "Ghost Hunting" show asked me for some advise on Sound. So I assisted him in what gear to buy etc. by way of thank you he invited me to a "haunt". He got this email from a woman who said her 6 year old son had died 3 years earlier, and since she could still hear him giggle from the bedroom and that she would come down in the morning and the chairs at the breakfast table would be moved around.

So we go out there and meet this woman, perfectly sane, lovely woman. I set up the new audio equipment for my friend and we go to what was the little boys bedroom. As many parents do, the mother had kept it just as it was left.



They attempt an EVP (electronic voice phenomena) recording now remember I am a sceptic and I have the recording equipment. My friend asks 3 questions "is there any one here?" "are you male or female?" "What is your favourite item in this room?"

We play back the recording
"is there any one here?" Nothing
"are you male or female?" As clear as day "Boy"
"What is your favourite item in this room?" "Giraffe"

At this point the Mother starts sobbing and we are looking around. She gets up walks to the back of the room to a cupboard, opens the door and pulls out a stuffed toy Giraffe and says there were two in a set, one was buried with him.

I freaked out and went home.

Link to the sound files please?
Any CCTV set up for the moving chairs at the breakfast table?

PS when the police carry out a PACE interview (formally under caution), two copies are made, one of the recordings is sealed and can only be opened by the instruction of the court. This is to ensure that the recording has not been altered/tampered with in any way. These are the standards of evidence that the UK judicial system expects when producing evidence for every case (from a murder to a minor offence) and rightly so. (plus the equipment plays over a time/date track to also ensure all is correct). And this is simply to record what one human has said. If we are to review evidence of ghosts (an extraordinary claim), we have every right to expect evidence of an equal or higher level PLUS those who are collecting evidence and trying to convince the rest of the World have a duty to have high evidential standards if they want to convince third parties.

Pat this over 10 years ago. No way I can get all this now. As I said I recommended the audio equipment. He paid I purchased, it was me who took the mic and HD recorded out of its box and it was me operating it at the time. It was a brand new device 1st time in use. Interesting you mention the police. This happened weeks ago




Officers filed reports. Crazy to risk looking stupid and losing their jobs if they are part of a conspiracy.

Well that's a bummer since you had proof of the supernatural. 10 years and it is lost.

The other thing is even if your claim was true (and I don't doubt your sincerity neither the one of other witnesses) we would still be perfectly justified disbelieving it due to very unreliable evidence.

All I did was share a story trying to convince no one. Honestly don't care if you believe it or not. I was there. It changed my views.

patb

Mediums want your money on the way in...

preachers want your money on the way out.

Some_Kind_Of_Hero

Politicians want your money whenever, wherever, however.

stag

All I can do is recount a couple of stories. The first one happened some years ago when an acquaintance of mine had just moved into a old house. He was a police officer and he and his wife were showing another couple round the place. That couple were both police officers. they went into one of the bedroom to be confronted by an old lady in a white nightgown. She turned to look at them in surprise as they burst in then vanished into thin air. BTW they were all sober (I can't vouch for the old lady though).

One night I went to bed. I had been there only a matter of minutes so was still fully awake when suddenly someone sat on the bed. I could feel their body pressing into the small of my back. I quickly turned over to find there no one there. I didn't tell my wife as I knew she would be scared witless (I used to work nights in those days so was away from home one week in three). A few years later after we had moved she happened to tell me a story. She had been in bed asleep while I was on night shift and she was woken by someone sitting on the bed. She daren't look but waited for whoever it was to go. When she was alone again she jumped out of bed to check on the children and found them all sound asleep.

Ludovico

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

Ludovico wrote: »

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

patb wrote: »

SirHilaryBray wrote: »

100% exist. I used to laugh at people. I am a sound engineer by trade, and my friend who attempted to create his own "Ghost Hunting" show asked me for some advise on Sound. So I assisted him in what gear to buy etc. by way of thank you he invited me to a "haunt". He got this email from a woman who said her 6 year old son had died 3 years earlier, and since she could still hear him giggle from the bedroom and that she would come down in the morning and the chairs at the breakfast table would be moved around.

So we go out there and meet this woman, perfectly sane, lovely woman. I set up the new audio equipment for my friend and we go to what was the little boys bedroom. As many parents do, the mother had kept it just as it was left.



They attempt an EVP (electronic voice phenomena) recording now remember I am a sceptic and I have the recording equipment. My friend asks 3 questions "is there any one here?" "are you male or female?" "What is your favourite item in this room?"

We play back the recording
"is there any one here?" Nothing
"are you male or female?" As clear as day "Boy"
"What is your favourite item in this room?" "Giraffe"

At this point the Mother starts sobbing and we are looking around. She gets up walks to the back of the room to a cupboard, opens the door and pulls out a stuffed toy Giraffe and says there were two in a set, one was buried with him.

I freaked out and went home.

Link to the sound files please?
Any CCTV set up for the moving chairs at the breakfast table?

PS when the police carry out a PACE interview (formally under caution), two copies are made, one of the recordings is sealed and can only be opened by the instruction of the court. This is to ensure that the recording has not been altered/tampered with in any way. These are the standards of evidence that the UK judicial system expects when producing evidence for every case (from a murder to a minor offence) and rightly so. (plus the equipment plays over a time/date track to also ensure all is correct). And this is simply to record what one human has said. If we are to review evidence of ghosts (an extraordinary claim), we have every right to expect evidence of an equal or higher level PLUS those who are collecting evidence and trying to convince the rest of the World have a duty to have high evidential standards if they want to convince third parties.

Pat this over 10 years ago. No way I can get all this now. As I said I recommended the audio equipment. He paid I purchased, it was me who took the mic and HD recorded out of its box and it was me operating it at the time. It was a brand new device 1st time in use. Interesting you mention the police. This happened weeks ago




Officers filed reports. Crazy to risk looking stupid and losing their jobs if they are part of a conspiracy.

Well that's a bummer since you had proof of the supernatural. 10 years and it is lost.

The other thing is even if your claim was true (and I don't doubt your sincerity neither the one of other witnesses) we would still be perfectly justified disbelieving it due to very unreliable evidence.

All I did was share a story trying to convince no one. Honestly don't care if you believe it or not. I was there. It changed my views.

You share this experience in this forum so expect it to be scrutinised and your claims questioned.

And I'll say something controversial: given the rather unreliable and equivocal nature of the claimed haunting you had no reason to change your views. In fact you could have and maybe should have questioned the things you perceived instead of jumping to the conclusion that it was a supernatural manifestation.