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Spectre Gunbarrel ***Spoilers***

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  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    @shadowonthesun "massive overstatement"??
    There are 19 movies with almost the same gunbarrel (19 out of 22, 86%). I think is fair to call it traditional or classic gunbarrel. And how a gunbarrel at the end could be traditional when all the other 21 are at the begining?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    What are you talking about shadow ? QOS didn't start with the gunbarrel, did it ? So fact is it isn't a traditional gun barrel. Neither did CR, and DAD had the campy bullet. So it IS true that the last correct gun barrel was for TWINE. Sometimes I wonder what's gotten into you.
    @shadowonthesun "massive overstatement"??
    There are 19 movies with almost the same gunbarrel (19 out of 22, 86%). I think is fair to call it traditional or classic gunbarrel. And how a gunbarrel at the end could be traditional when all the other 21 are at the begining?
    Don't mind him, he's just being silly and nitpicking every post he can. Of course he is wrong about this, so you are correct sir.

  • jolearonjolearon
    Posts: 645
    @AgentJamesBond007 I agree, love that one.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    Thank you DC!
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    edited November 2011 Posts: 2,341
    I'd rather have something like this:
    Cool but can you do the classic Simmon-Dalton gunbarrel with the MR music Instead of the Brosnan Gunbarrel and music? Be much abliged.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    And how a gunbarrel at the end could be traditional when all the other 21 are at the begining?
    Because, aside from the positioning of the gunbarrel - at the end, as opposed to the start - there is nothing different about the QUANTUM OF SOLACE gunbarrel. Under your logic, the DR. NO gunbarrel is not traditional because it opens straight onto the film's theme, rather than a pre-title sequence. Under your logic, ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE is not traditional, because Lazenby disappears from the screen as the blood trickles down. In fact, under your logic, each actor's gunbarrel is not traditional because they each have a different pose when they turn and fire.
  • FromCanadaWithLoveFromCanadaWithLove Canada
    Posts: 612
    The DAD gun barrel never really made sense to me. Brosnan had the skill to shoot directly into the 'other guy's' barrel, without hitting any of the walls of the gun? Damn.
  • 00130013
    edited November 2011 Posts: 1,817
    @shadowonthesun
    Good reductio ad absurdum! But pointless for me, because my argumentation is based on a frequentist approach.
    Of course every one of the gunbarrels is unique. Nevertheless, it is possible to find a general trend or pattern in the basic structure of the films: gunbarrel (G), pretitle (P), theme (T), movie (M), end (E). So in 20 films had that structure but CR is PGTME and QOS PTMGE.
    It seems to me that GPTME is the traditional structure and therefore the gunbarrel is structuraly typicall.
    Regarding Dr No I disagree: the non traditional element is the absence of the pretitle sequence, not the gunbarrel.
    In my logic OHMSS has of course a non traditional element (in 21 Bond doesn't dissapears). Also DAD is not traditional by the same reason.
    And another thing, QOS gunbarrel has one more thing to be unorthodox: Bond walks after shooting.
    There is variability but also a mean gunbarrel. And you don't have to be in grad school of Statistics, as I am, to be aware of it.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Sorry, but if the only difference is the position of the gunbarrel, I hardly think it's "non-traditional". Especially considering that it contains all the fundamental elements of the gunbarrel itself: the James Bond theme, the dots moving across the screen from left to right, Bond walking to the centre of the screen before turning and firing, and the blood trickling down.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    Posts: 4,619
    Sorry, but if the only difference is the position of the gunbarrel, I hardly think it's "non-traditional". Especially considering that it contains all the fundamental elements of the gunbarrel itself: the James Bond theme, the dots moving across the screen from left to right, Bond walking to the centre of the screen before turning and firing, and the blood trickling down.
    So as long as it's a gunbarrel sequence it's traditional, no matter how it looks like? 8-X
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited November 2011 Posts: 14,680
    Exactly. And the original gunbarrel design itself (DN-DAD) is traditional. Seems like we're talking traditions within traditions. Interesting how every gunbarrel from the 2000's was altered. Three different gunbarrel designs in a row. I wonder if Skyfall will showcase yet another new design.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    So as long as it's a gunbarrel sequence it's traditional, no matter how it looks like? 8-X
    No, I mean that so long as it has all or most of the elements of a gunbarrel, then it's traditional. CASINO ROYALE is not a traditional gunbarrel, because it is incorporated into the film, and because Craig does not actually walk into frame. QUANTUM OF SOLACE has all the same elements as the other twenty gunbarrels, with the only difference being its position in the actual film, which I don't think is enough to qualify it as a non-traditional gunbarrel the way CASINO ROYALE is.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    So we all agree we want the gunbarrel sequence, right? Yay! We all AGREE on something ... (I think).

    I say at the beginning. And AgentJamesBond007's is very nice indeed! =D>
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    QOS' gunbarrel isn't traditional because it's at the end of the film. I don't see why we are arguing over obvious things.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Every gunbarrel contains the following things:

    1) White dots cross the screen from left to right
    2) Those white dots form the gunbarrel when they reach the far side
    3) The gunbarrel tracks from the right-hand side of the screen to the middle
    4) James Bond walks from the right-hand side of the screen to the middle
    5) Bond turns and fires at the camera
    6) Stylised red blood trickles down the screen

    The QUANTUM OF SOLACE gunbarrel contains all of these - six elements that make it recogniseable as a James Bond gunbarrel. The fact that it is located at the end of the film (as opposed to the beginning) does not make it indistinguishable as a gunbarrel. Therefore, it is unconventional, but not "non-traditional".
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    Whilst all this going on I am personally staring down a gunbarrel in the back yard with my finger on the trigger! Listening to Noel Harrisons Windmills of your Mind :-))..can we move on to design and possibly musical arrangement??

    Would love to see the ba ba da ba ba da Live and Let Die feel back to music as opposed to the strolling TND style. I did like the metallic look of QOS
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    The fact that it is located at the end of the film (as opposed to the beginning) does not make it indistinguishable as a gunbarrel.
    That's your opinion, and I disagree.
  • gt007gt007 Station G
    Posts: 1,182
    The fact that it is located at the end of the film (as opposed to the beginning) does not make it indistinguishable as a gunbarrel. Therefore, it is unconventional, but not "non-traditional".
    So you're saying distinguishable = traditional. Which is wrong.

    Traditionally, the gunbarrel opens the film. In QOS it doesn't, therefore it's not traditional.

    And it's not supposed to be traditional. It's at the end of the film to symbolise the closure of the Vesper story arc and the beginning of Bond as we knew him. Which means the traditional gunbarrel will be back for Skyfall and the subsequent films.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Which means the traditional gunbarrel will be back for Skyfall and the subsequent films.
    No, it doesn't. EON may decide that they like having the gunbarrel at the end of the film. As you say, it was a stylistic choice to include it at the end of the film, because it was symbolic. However, one of the other reasons why it was moved to the end of the film was because it would have broken the tension too soon. One of the reasons why the opening shots of QUANTUM OF SOLACE - sweeping over the lake, the cuts of the Aston and the Alfas gearing up for the chase, and the way David Arnold uses the Aston's engine note as an instrument itself - are so effective is because they build tension too soon. Including the gunbarrel at the start would have undone that. And it's the same in CASINO ROYALE; a lot of the early stuff in the PTS is effective because it builds tension on its own. It doesn't need the gunbarrel to kick-start the film the way many recent additions in the franchise have.
  • gt007gt007 Station G
    edited November 2011 Posts: 1,182
    Which means the traditional gunbarrel will be back for Skyfall and the subsequent films.
    No, it doesn't. EON may decide that they like having the gunbarrel at the end of the film. As you say, it was a stylistic choice to include it at the end of the film, because it was symbolic.
    If they put the gunbarrel at the end of QOS for symbolic reasons, then it doesn't make sense to have it at the end of future films because it won't symbolise anything. Unless they reboot again, which I don't see happening any time soon.
    However, one of the other reasons why it was moved to the end of the film was because it would have broken the tension too soon.
    I don't think they placed the gunbarrel at the end to make the opening scene more effective. It just happens to be more effective without the gunbarrel, which was put at the end for a completely different reason,
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    If they keep the gunbarrel at the end, the franchise will bite the dust even more... Another possible horrible decision that will ruin the franchise even more. The gunbarrel needs to be at the start from now on.

    Sometimes I wonder if some members here are actual Bond fans... they want all the traditional elements taken away from the films... the franchise is becoming less and less Bond, and more and more like all the other action films out there.

    Very dark days for the franchise... maybe it is time to end it before it needs life support...

    Yes, if the gunbarrel doesn't open SkyFall, I won't need to see the film to know it will be a catastrophic failure. It's the 50th anniversary for christ's sake ! The film needs a great gunbarrel at the start with a kick-ass Bond theme playing full blast !

    When I watched my first Bond film 10 years ago, I was blown away by this incredible sight of the gunbarrel and the uber cool Bond theme kick-starting the film. If the films will no longer open like that, then frankly I am done with the franchise. All the fun is taken away, all the old memories are gone, all the Bondness is being taken away... The franchise is close to being ruined, so lets stop the bleeding now, either end the franchise, cancel SkyFall, or please re-start to do proper Bond films like in 1962-2002.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    I completely disagree. Would FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE have been any less of a film if the gunbarrel was removed?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    I completely disagree. Would FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE have been any less of a film if the gunbarrel was removed?
    Yes, I would have a hard time considering FRWL as a Bond film. It would stick out like a sore thumb. I would rank FRWL in my bottom 5 if the gunbarrel didn't start the film or if the gb wasn't in the film. The beauty of Bond films is the iconic gunbarrel at the start. The gunbarrel of GE is my earliest memory of James Bond, and I must say I was blown away from those 20 little seconds that stuck with me for weeks. Without that, the Bond films wouldn't be Bond films, and GE would have been a much more dull and unmemorable film for me, and discovering James Bond would not have been so exciting and amazing.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Well, to be perfectly honest, I think you're putting too much in store for elements of the film that are not critical to its success as a film. FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE is still FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE, with or without a gunbarrel. That's just my opinion, though.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Are you a Bond fan or not, shadow ? You don't want Q back, you don't want Moneypenny back, you don't want gadgets, now you don't want the gunbarrel at the start... I have a hard time believing you are a Bond fan

    It seems you like the films because you like them, not because they are Bond films. You seem to not care about the 'Bond' in them. It seems the fact that they are Bond films is secondary to you.

    I am sure that 99% of the people who saw a Bond film for the first time were mesmerized by the gunbarrel at the start, and find those 20 seconds of gunbarrel like a very exciting and memorable thing. I believe that every kid who saw a Bond film by a first time, will have the gunbarrel at the start of the film stick in their minds for weeks.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    You don't want Q back, you don't want Moneypenny back, you don't want gadgets,
    I never said that. I said I don't want them back if they're only being included for the sake of it.
    now you don't want the gunbarrel at the start...
    No, I said I would not be upset if it was moved to the end.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,680
    Here's my opinion. I'll bet money they won't put the gunbarrel at the end for quite some time. Having it included in the story ala CR can be done again effectively. Maybe when Bond shoots, instead of seeing blood, we cut to a bad guy falling backwards, gun dropping out of hand. Bond then proceeds to carry out a PTS mission. OR (and this is my favourite)- instead of a gunbarrel with rifling grooves, it can be sniper's sight in which the sniper himself is lining up Bond to take him out. Maybe have faint crosshairs or evidence of crosshairs in there. Bond turns to shoot, camera cuts to sniper falling down with a bullet hole in his sight lens. Que PTS.

    Gunbarrel design- It would make sense to use the common gunbarrel design (DN-DAD) for the 50th Anniversary, except make it look less polished and more gritty to suit Craig's outings. Not like QoS though, where the gunbarrel design was too dark, plain and sterile. Maybe have the white dots at the start say 'Albert R. Broccoli's Eon Productions presents...' as it did in a couple of the old ones.
  • 00130013
    Posts: 1,817
    In the QOS gunbarrel:
    1) Bond keeps walking after shooting;
    2) it's followed by the movie title;
    3) it's at the end of the movie.
    How on earth you call that traditional?
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2011 Posts: 4,537
    I have consider the gunbarrel be a Eye barrel for Skyfall, before it be anouched as offical title and before Mendes said it have nothing to do with Cr/QOS. This one i made on 11 October http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/9236/skyfalltest.jpg

    The gunbarrel should be back at the start after the MGM and Sony logo, what kind of gunbarrel it going to be. What i don't mind be a Dr No remember with the gunbarrel changed in to the maintitle.. Of course it is based on how the action fit, because those days the maintitle is a lot more a breath moment then the past. With CR there be better moments where the maintitle can be at then where there at in my opnion there not realy be a gunbarrel.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    1) Bond keeps walking after shooting;
    Connery/Simmons did a little hop to get into his firing position. George Lazenby dropped down onto one knee. Roger Moore fired with one arm bracing the other. Dalton assumed a splay-legged stance. Brosnan has a very 'neat' style; there's nothing really fancy about it. So if Craig walks out of the gunbarrel, that's just him doing something different to make his gunbarrel recogniseable, since every actor does that.
    2) it's followed by the movie title;
    3) it's at the end of the movie.
    As I said, the actual, physical gunbarrel is no different to every other gunbarrel (with the exception of CASINO ROYALE). Being out of sequence does not make it "non-traditional".
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