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Spectre Gunbarrel ***Spoilers***

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,117
    IncompetentHenchman wrote: »
    As far as I'm concerned, the bad gunbarrels are OHMSS, DAD, QOS, SF and SP.

    Some gunbarrels have slight issues: DN-FRWL-GF (because there is no Sean Connery and they don't segue), DAF and AVTAK are a bit bizarre, TSWLM and MR are mistimed in their shots, FYEO doesn't segue perfectly, CR was fine but set a precedent unfortunately.

    Rest of the gunbarrels are perfect. Note that we have not had a perfect gunbarrel since TWINE.

    My personal favourite is LTK because of the suspense, and GE is a close runner-up.

    What's bizarre about AVTAK? It's the same GB for all of Moore's films from TSWLM onwards. The musical arrangement is slightly faster than OP but otherwise those two are indentical.
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Agreed. Licence To Kill's gunbarrel is intense and puts you in the shoes of Bond as Kamen's music plays and Dalton walks in the iris all too confidently before turning to shoot.

    Can't stand these two. The visuals are almost perfect but give me a proper rendition of the Bond theme rather than going off piste.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited March 2016 Posts: 15,423
    I know what you mean, Wiz. The thing is, like one the posters stated above, we never had a perfect gunbarrel. The best gunbarrel music, in my opinion, goes to Goldfinger, while the greatest performance belongs to Thunderball, with the best visual effects title awarded to Diamonds Are Forever (I wish it wasn't colourless).

    Dalton gave a magnificent performance as Bond in the gunbarrel segment, and of the two films, I'd definitely go with Licence To Kill, because The Living Daylights, like Octopussy uses the Bond Theme in uber pedestrian mode you feel like it's just there for the sake of telling you it's a Bond film. They both make me yawn, as if Barry (no disrespect to the man in the slightest, rest his soul) was sleepwalking when he composed them.

    Die Another Day starts off very brilliantly as the horns explode into The Bond Theme, only to be awfully ruined by the techno beats and the lack of musical instruments. No, I don't have a problem with the CGI bullet. It's just the music that's a major letdown.

    Spectre begins in the same manner, bringing the thrill of the Bond enthusiasm forward, only to disappoint after the blow of the brass and the triangular end of the music, much like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which I disliked). And don't get me started on "The Dead Are Alive" title card. Lol! Seems like something written by a four year old kid. :))
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I know what you mean, Wiz. The thing is, like one the posters stated above, we never had a perfect gunbarrel. The best gunbarrel music, in my opinion, goes to Goldfinger, while the greatest performance belongs to Thunderball, with the best visual effects title awarded to Diamonds Are Forever (I wish it wasn't colourless).

    Dalton gave a magnificent performance as Bond in the gunbarrel segment, and of the two films, I'd definitely go with Licence To Kill, because The Living Daylights, like Octopussy uses the Bond Theme in uber pedestrian mode you feel like it's just there for the sake of telling you it's a Bond film. They both make me yawn, as if Barry (no disrespect to the man in the slightest, rest his soul) was sleepwalking when he composed them.

    Die Another Day starts off very brilliantly as the horns explode into The Bond Theme, only to be awfully ruined by the techno beats and the lack of musical instruments. No, I don't have a problem with the CGI bullet. It's just the music that's a major letdown.

    Spectre begins in the same manner, bringing the thrill of the Bond enthusiasm forward, only to disappoint after the blow of the brass and the triangular end of the music, much like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which I disliked). And don't get me started on "The Dead Are Alive" title card. Lol! Seems like something written by a four year old kid. :))

    Pretty much agree with everything you say.

    If you took the music from FRWL, GF, TB or DAF and overlaid it on Dalton's or Brozza's (excluding DAD) visuals that would be pretty close to perfection IMO.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I know what you mean, Wiz. The thing is, like one the posters stated above, we never had a perfect gunbarrel. The best gunbarrel music, in my opinion, goes to Goldfinger, while the greatest performance belongs to Thunderball, with the best visual effects title awarded to Diamonds Are Forever (I wish it wasn't colourless).

    Dalton gave a magnificent performance as Bond in the gunbarrel segment, and of the two films, I'd definitely go with Licence To Kill, because The Living Daylights, like Octopussy uses the Bond Theme in uber pedestrian mode you feel like it's just there for the sake of telling you it's a Bond film. They both make me yawn, as if Barry (no disrespect to the man in the slightest, rest his soul) was sleepwalking when he composed them.

    Die Another Day starts off very brilliantly as the horns explode into The Bond Theme, only to be awfully ruined by the techno beats and the lack of musical instruments. No, I don't have a problem with the CGI bullet. It's just the music that's a major letdown.

    Spectre begins in the same manner, bringing the thrill of the Bond enthusiasm forward, only to disappoint after the blow of the brass and the triangular end of the music, much like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which I disliked). And don't get me started on "The Dead Are Alive" title card. Lol! Seems like something written by a four year old kid. :))

    Pretty much agree with everything you say.

    If you took the music from FRWL, GF, TB or DAF and overlaid it on Dalton's or Brozza's (excluding DAD) visuals that would be pretty close to perfection IMO.
    We're on the same boat, Wiz!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I know what you mean, Wiz. The thing is, like one the posters stated above, we never had a perfect gunbarrel. The best gunbarrel music, in my opinion, goes to Goldfinger, while the greatest performance belongs to Thunderball, with the best visual effects title awarded to Diamonds Are Forever (I wish it wasn't colourless).

    Dalton gave a magnificent performance as Bond in the gunbarrel segment, and of the two films, I'd definitely go with Licence To Kill, because The Living Daylights, like Octopussy uses the Bond Theme in uber pedestrian mode you feel like it's just there for the sake of telling you it's a Bond film. They both make me yawn, as if Barry (no disrespect to the man in the slightest, rest his soul) was sleepwalking when he composed them.

    Die Another Day starts off very brilliantly as the horns explode into The Bond Theme, only to be awfully ruined by the techno beats and the lack of musical instruments. No, I don't have a problem with the CGI bullet. It's just the music that's a major letdown.

    Spectre begins in the same manner, bringing the thrill of the Bond enthusiasm forward, only to disappoint after the blow of the brass and the triangular end of the music, much like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which I disliked). And don't get me started on "The Dead Are Alive" title card. Lol! Seems like something written by a four year old kid. :))

    Pretty much agree with everything you say.

    If you took the music from FRWL, GF, TB or DAF and overlaid it on Dalton's or Brozza's (excluding DAD) visuals that would be pretty close to perfection IMO.
    We're on the same boat, Wiz!

    It's rare Captain Ice lets anyone aboard the good ship 'Righteous Indignation' but you have all the attributes to make a fine cabin boy @ClarkDevlin.

  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    TheWizardOfIce wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    I know what you mean, Wiz. The thing is, like one the posters stated above, we never had a perfect gunbarrel. The best gunbarrel music, in my opinion, goes to Goldfinger, while the greatest performance belongs to Thunderball, with the best visual effects title awarded to Diamonds Are Forever (I wish it wasn't colourless).

    Dalton gave a magnificent performance as Bond in the gunbarrel segment, and of the two films, I'd definitely go with Licence To Kill, because The Living Daylights, like Octopussy uses the Bond Theme in uber pedestrian mode you feel like it's just there for the sake of telling you it's a Bond film. They both make me yawn, as if Barry (no disrespect to the man in the slightest, rest his soul) was sleepwalking when he composed them.

    Die Another Day starts off very brilliantly as the horns explode into The Bond Theme, only to be awfully ruined by the techno beats and the lack of musical instruments. No, I don't have a problem with the CGI bullet. It's just the music that's a major letdown.

    Spectre begins in the same manner, bringing the thrill of the Bond enthusiasm forward, only to disappoint after the blow of the brass and the triangular end of the music, much like Tomorrow Never Dies and The World Is Not Enough (which I disliked). And don't get me started on "The Dead Are Alive" title card. Lol! Seems like something written by a four year old kid. :))

    Pretty much agree with everything you say.

    If you took the music from FRWL, GF, TB or DAF and overlaid it on Dalton's or Brozza's (excluding DAD) visuals that would be pretty close to perfection IMO.
    We're on the same boat, Wiz!

    It's rare Captain Ice lets anyone aboard the good ship 'Righteous Indignation' but you have all the attributes to make a fine cabin boy @ClarkDevlin.
    Thank you, sir! :D
  • fjdinardofjdinardo
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,985
    I feel Mendes didn't even want the gunbarrel at the beginning of Spectre either, but he really had no choice because he put his foot in his mouth when he said he wanted in the beginning of Skyfall but couldn't to because of the opening shot with Bond lifting a gun. Since Bond wasn't lifting a gun in the opening shot of Spectre he really couldn't come up with an excuse to not have it in the beginning. Just my feeling but i really feel he didnt want it in the beginning of spectre.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I feel Mendes didn't even want the gunbarrel at the beginning of Spectre either, but he really had no choice because he put his foot in his mouth when he said he wanted in the beginning of Skyfall but couldn't to because of the opening shot with Bond lifting a gun. Since Bond wasn't lifting a gun in the opening shot of Spectre he really couldn't come up with an excuse to not have it in the beginning. Just must feeling but i really feel he didnt want it in the beginning of spectre.

    Agreed. It feels like Mendes has his own ideas about the film he's making and the GB is a tremendous pain in the arse he could do without that gets in the way of his arty opening shot or crappy 'Dead are alive' subtitle.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    If only they would just redo the LTK gunbarrel, I would be happy. That gunbarrel was perfect as far as I'm concerned.
  • Ottofuse8Ottofuse8
    Posts: 832
    I really liked ltk's also. I also think mendes didnt want it in spectre, but i thought the gunbarrel was good unlike some people. The dead are alive thing is a little annoying but doesnt really bother me much.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    The Dead Or Alive thing didn't bother me at all. It gave it a Fleming novel feel to it as that would be great opening quotes to one.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Murdock wrote: »
    The Dead Or Alive thing didn't bother me at all. It gave it a Fleming novel feel to it as that would be great opening quotes to one.

    i agree
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Didn't bother me either. :)
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    Of course 'the dead are alive' is not completely deal-breaking but wouldn't all parties concerned prefer the traditional shake of the iris and segue into the PTS?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Can any of the people who 'don't mind it' (hardly a resounding endorsement Sam) say what they think it brings to the table?

    Clearly it's not as big a travesty as the parasurfing sequence but I'm at a loss as to why anyone would think it is better than the classic segue through iris?

    I'm just trying to understand Mendes' thought process and why he might think this is a good idea.

    Personally it just screams film student and seems a feeble attempt to try to inject some faux gravitas and depth into a script that didn't have much.

    I think the question really is if it wasn't there would anyone miss it? And the answer to that would surely be an unequivocal 'no'.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    The fact the Spectre gun barrel exists is enough for me.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Yeah it would be good to have the usual segue, but it really doesn't bother me for a one off that it doesn't. What I like most about the The Dead Are Alive title card is the sound that accompanies it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Yeah as I said, I'm just happy it as at the beginning and looked like Binder's design. The swirl and segue would have been fine but I was happy with what we got.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I am with Wizard on this one, again. The whole "The Dead Are Alive" thing didn't do much to the whole film and was hardly a description, if we are to put things mildly, of the pre-title sequence's event setting. The Day of The Dead. I mean, if Mendes wanted to put a "Fleming-esque" title card before the film, he could've simply done it the way it was done in A View To A Kill when a statement was made on the Zorin name being fictitious: Right before the gunbarrel.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    I was happy enough to see the gun barrel back at the start of the movie and I'll admit, my face lit up the cinema when it came on. However, I will admit to a little disappointed when it just faded away as opposed to what we've seen before. It didn't stop me enjoying the movie but it would have been nice to have seen something more along the lines of the original.
  • 00Dalton00Dalton
    Posts: 51
    Is it so hard to have the fm barrel animate like in the Brosnan era?

    Skyfall should've had a static rough retro barrel lifted whole sale from Dr No to start the film but SP would've for my money been best being the 1995 CGI barrel.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    "The dead are alive" is no CGI parasurfing scene, as others have said in this thread, but it's an overly melodramatic entry to the film and the typical gunbarrel segue into the film would be more effective. Even if it was the supposed "zooming out of a skull's eye socket", that'd be more effective. At the end of the day, it's not something you can use to dock points from the film, but it's just like they're trying too hard and it's really nothing special to begin with. A traditional Bond opening would work fine because they were kind of attempting to return to the traditional Bond in SP, and the standard gunbarrel segue would function fine for that. The title card we did get makes it sound like a zombie apocalypse movie, and the absence of that title card would have absolutely no effect on the movie in any capacity.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    I thought it was unique and interesting. Nothing harmful. just different but familiar all the same. Remember when Dr. No's gunbarrel went right into the title sequence? ;)
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    edited March 2016 Posts: 1,817
    I can appreciate some artistic merit to "the dead are alive" given that it really is an overarching theme and not just in relation to Blofeld and the Day of the Dead as people have claimed.

    Dench's M giving Bond a message after death to kill Sciarra. Mr White speaking to his daughter beyond the grave through mementos like in the secret room. The MI6 building being full of pictures of the dead who have had a relation or impact upon Bond in some way and are still in Bond's mind.

    Not to say that I approve of it. Of course the iris shake and segue would have been far, far, far better. At the end of the day is a Mendes pretention. If he really, really, really wanted it he could have put it BEFORE the gunbarrel, I suppose...
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Murdock wrote: »
    I thought it was unique and interesting. Nothing harmful. just different but familiar all the same. Remember when Dr. No's gunbarrel went right into the title sequence? ;)

    I know you're joking, but DN is a first. It's automatically exempted, whereas SP feels like it's trying too hard to be good but really doesn't deliver anything.

    Also, familiar? Really? Familiar would be an actual gunbarrel segue. Having some melodramatic words come up isn't familiar to any of the Bond gunbarrels.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    I actually had more of an issue with the pacing and the music of the Spectre gunbarrel than no segue and the title card - those dots go across too fast, the dots should create that sense of anticipation before a Bond.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    To be fair, we'd already been anticipating the gunbarrel at the start for seven years.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It's like being given a beautiful present, but you're unhappy with the wrapping paper. :D
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    To me, it's more like being given a present that is close to what you wanted but not quite there, despite still being functional. It's like buying a beautiful Aston Martin but the dashboard has a splotch of pink on it.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'd be happy with that, :D just slip on a pink tie and say you had the dash
    Colour coordinated !
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