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Marvel Cinematic Universe (2008 - present)

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  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited April 2018 Posts: 628
    bondjames wrote: »
    Just got back. Still processing. It's certainly epic, dark, substantial and consequential. However, I'm not sure if I'm necessarily all that impressed. It's a bit busy and didn't quite grab me like the first Avengers film. There's a lot going on and I would have preferred a bit more character development with perhaps less people involved. Anyway, not bad, but to be frank I feel a little underwhelmed at this point.

    You're not alone. I'm a big fan of the MCU and found this entry not only busy but contrived, with way too little characterization for key Avengers (especially Cap, Black Widow and the Vision/Wanda romance) and far too much of the Guardians. Plus ...
    the "shocking" ending is negated by the fact that we know most of the characters will be returning in sequels that have already been announced and/or filmed. I would rather the film had focused on the core group of Avengers as a proper standalone without the silly cliffhanger.

    The latter two Captain America films remain the high water mark of the MCU.
  • vzokvzok
    Posts: 4,044
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    How exciting. For accountants.

    At least IW has given me one good (indirect) laugh.
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    2 hours and counting until showtime. I’ll try to report back tonight with my initial spoiler-free thoughts.

    Speaking of spoilers, I’ve avoided most social media over the past week and stayed out of this thread for the past month or so. Let’s hope I can make it a few more hours without having something ruined for me.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited April 2018 Posts: 11,139
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    How exciting. For accountants.

    And for fans. Fans get these movies made from a profitable film studio while dinosaur studios, who are run by out of touch producers are losing money and struggle to get a distributor for a long running and what's supposed to be a "beloved" film series where each subsequent entry as of late not only gets worse but is now barely being made.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Accountants can also be fans.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    No kidding.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    I enjoyed IW much more than I did Black Panther. Some might think that this is the downside of packing so many people into one film, but I thought it worked pretty well. Of course I love Starlord (Chris Pratt), Rocket Raccoon (Bradley Cooper), Drax (Dave Bautista) and Groot, which helped elevate this movie above BP. I'm not sure I understand @bondjames' comment about more character development? Firstly, these characters don't need anymore development. If you're still developing your characters by your fourth movie then it's fair to say you failed in your previous ones.
    @bondsum, I certainly enjoyed IW far more than I did BP as well. Unquestionably. However, having a few more hours to ponder, I still don't see this as a top tier film as of now. There's really nothing wrong with it to be honest, and it is well structured and executed. However, something is lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it.
    Thanos didn't deliver for me. He was powerful certainly, but I expected more menace. I think his best scene was the opening one on the Asgardian ship, and it was all downhill from there for me. The Black Order also didn't really resonate. They were beautifully realized visually, but they seemed more thrilling & frightening in the trailers than in the finished film.
    Regarding character development, I agree with you and I wasn't expecting reams of exposition at this stage for previously well established characters. However, I feel that
    Cap, Black Widow, Stark and some of the other regulars were short changed here despite lots of air time.
    It's perhaps a pacing thing or the fact that there was just too much happening without enough build up.
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Just got back. Still processing. It's certainly epic, dark, substantial and consequential. However, I'm not sure if I'm necessarily all that impressed. It's a bit busy and didn't quite grab me like the first Avengers film. There's a lot going on and I would have preferred a bit more character development with perhaps less people involved. Anyway, not bad, but to be frank I feel a little underwhelmed at this point.

    You're not alone. I'm a big fan of the MCU and found this entry not only busy but contrived, with way too little characterization for key Avengers (especially Cap, Black Widow and the Vision/Wanda romance) and far too much of the Guardians.
    @Escalus5, I fully agree. In some respects it seemed like a series of scenes without enough holding it together, despite the magnificent visuals. I agree on
    the Guardians getting perhaps a bit too much screen time in lieu of the others as well.
    You're quite right on the ending also. It didn't do anything for me due to the reasons you noted.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Re character development, I think it´s not so much development that was missing, but some characters seemed too much thrown in just because, making their appearance a bit hollow.
    The film hardly leaves comedy mode, while simultaneously Thanos is literally on a killing spree. That and the ending kind of irons out any kind of tension or feeling of stakes.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited April 2018 Posts: 3,333
    bondjames wrote: »
    @bondsum, I certainly enjoyed IW far more than I did BP as well. Unquestionably. However, having a few more hours to ponder, I still don't see this as a top tier film as of now. There's really nothing wrong with it to be honest, and it is well structured and executed. However, something is lacking and I can't quite put my finger on it.
    One thing I'm grateful for to the Russo Brothers is their dismissal of Nick Fury and those terrible S.H.I.E.L.D. agents. Since they've been gone, I feel the films have grown-up extensively, with only Robert Redford being the exception and by adding any significant weight to their previous inclusion. I know it's perhaps difficult summarizing what you might have felt was off-kilter about the movie without giving away spoilers. Our new friend @Escalus5 hasn't quite mastered the spoiler alert function yet ***(Use the ? in the panel above @Escalus5)*** But what he eludes to might be the reason why so many fans are a tad confused and bewildered by the climax of the movie. For me, I think this demonstrates that the Russo's understand that this medium is part of a comicbook franchise and it also happens to end like one - "to be continued". I'm assuming that people are going into this movie aware that it's a 2-parter, right? I'd go so far as to say that this is the closest I've felt to seeing a proper comicbook adaption on the big screen since Superman: The Movie. Just a quick glance at my pet hate Rotten Tomatoes shows me that not all critics are quite on the same page about this entry, which is how it should be. My trust in the new class of movie critic has taken somewhat of a knock recently, especially after their universal praise for such clunkers as the new Disney Star Wars and Black Panther to name but a few (probably started with Skyfall). That aside, I feel this movie has me wanting to see the next instalment even more.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Regarding character development, I agree with you and I wasn't expecting reams of exposition at this stage for previously well established characters.
    Yes, I didn't think you meant this, which was why I pointed it out. Your reply in *spoilers* answers this doubt satisfactorily now. Even at 2 hr and 36 mins the movie needed to be even longer to fit in the entire cast. Personally, I think 3 hrs would have helped give certain characters some much-needed additional screen time. However, as this movie is very much a "to be continued" instalment I'll forgive it that.
    I mean, they couldn't even find room for Ant Man in this movie. It'll be interesting to see where he fits in the big scheme of things. I'm of the understanding that Nick Fury and Captain Marvel will feature in Part 2 of Infinity War. It'll also be interesting to see how the Carol Danvers character goes down in her own movie, as it could prove pivotal on how we feel about IW overall.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Just got back. Still processing. It's certainly epic, dark, substantial and consequential. However, I'm not sure if I'm necessarily all that impressed. It's a bit busy and didn't quite grab me like the first Avengers film. There's a lot going on and I would have preferred a bit more character development with perhaps less people involved. Anyway, not bad, but to be frank I feel a little underwhelmed at this point.
    It's funny, I now look back on the first Avengers movie as somewhat naive and too S.H.I.E.L.D. top-heavy for my own tastes. Though I realise that the writers were trying to set up The Avengers proper, it took too much time getting there IMO. Now that we are here, I'm happy with the end product.
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Escalus5, I fully agree. In some respects it seemed like a series of scenes without enough holding it together, despite the magnificent visuals. I agree on. You're quite right on the ending also. It didn't do anything for me due to the reasons you noted.
    For me, it's sort of like the OHMSS ending all over again. Maybe the detractors will get their DAF type sequel to be at one with the universe? For once, I feel Marvel have put together a movie that I want to see time and time again. Of course, this could all be undone with its follow up (or Part 2). I'm hoping that the Russo's come up with an ingenious deus ex machina that is worthy of this movie. Personally, I have faith in the Russo Brothers, just like I have faith in James Gunn to deliver the goods.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Regarding character development, I agree with you and I wasn't expecting reams of exposition at this stage for previously well established characters.
    Yes, I didn't think you meant this, which was why I pointed it out. Your reply in *spoilers* answers this doubt satisfactorily now. Even at 2 hr and 36 mins the movie needed to be even longer to fit in the entire cast. Personally, I think 3 hrs would have helped give certain characters some much-needed additional screen time. However, as this movie is very much a "to be continued" instalment I'll forgive it that.
    I agree that it could have benefited from being a tad longer, given all that they had to fit in. I realize I'm being a bit critical. It really was a well put together film given what they had to get through.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Just got back. Still processing. It's certainly epic, dark, substantial and consequential. However, I'm not sure if I'm necessarily all that impressed. It's a bit busy and didn't quite grab me like the first Avengers film. There's a lot going on and I would have preferred a bit more character development with perhaps less people involved. Anyway, not bad, but to be frank I feel a little underwhelmed at this point.
    It's funny, I now look back on the first Avengers movie as somewhat naive and too S.H.I.E.L.D. top-heavy for my own tastes. Though I realise that the writers were trying to set up The Avengers proper, it took too much time getting there IMO. Now that we are here, I'm happy with the end product.
    I see where you're coming from. The first Avengers film did take a while to get going, true. However, I do like that slow 'buildup' to the Hulk's bust out aboard the Helicarrier and the Shield agents give the whole thing a bit of a grounded Bondian spy flavour which I also appreciate.
    bondsum wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Escalus5, I fully agree. In some respects it seemed like a series of scenes without enough holding it together, despite the magnificent visuals. I agree on. You're quite right on the ending also. It didn't do anything for me due to the reasons you noted.
    For me, it's sort of like the OHMSS ending all over again. Maybe the detractors will get their DAF type sequel to be at one with the universe? For once, I feel Marvel have put together a movie that I want to see time and time again. Of course, this could all be undone with its follow up (or Part 2). I'm hoping that the Russo's come up with an ingenious deus ex machina that is worthy of this movie. Personally, I have faith in the Russo Brothers, just like I have faith in James Gunn to deliver the goods.
    I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but to an extent there was a bit of 'QoS' to IW for me. I somehow got the same feeling I had upon first viewing of that Bond entry, in the sense that the film just barreled forward from the beginning at a relentless pace and seemed a bit 'bare' in terms of character insights. To an extent, it also reminded me of Batman v. Superman too. That was another film which was really stuffed with a lot of characters. I concede that IW is much better paced.

    I'm anxious to make another theatre visit to view it again soon and like you am curious to see what Avengers 4 brings us next year to satisfactorily conclude this story.
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited April 2018 Posts: 3,333
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm not sure if this makes any sense, but to an extent there was a bit of 'QoS' to IW for me. I somehow got the same feeling I had upon first viewing of that Bond entry, in the sense that the film just barreled forward from the beginning at a relentless pace and seemed a bit 'bare' in terms of character insights. To an extent, it also reminded me of Batman v. Superman too. That was another film which was really stuffed with a lot of characters. I concede that IW is much better paced.

    I'm anxious to make another theatre visit to view it again soon and like you am curious to see what Avengers 4 brings us next year to satisfactorily conclude this story.
    It probably doesn't make a lot of sense because you've had plenty of years to digest the ending of OHMSS and know the consequences of that infamous downer ending and what followed on from it. Just like in time, the current IW audience will find out the continuation of this movie. Fortunately I didn't get a Batman v. Superman vibe as that was not only a terrible movie but a godawful mess.

    PS. I should clarify that Part 2 of IW will define what I truly think of this instalment overall. And I must also point out that I wasn't having a dig at you @bondjames, I was simply saying the overall picture to this movie isn't complete yet and shouldn't be judged as a complete story. The downer ending is justified for its "to be continued" narration.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Loved it. A good mix of fun, action and emotion. A little too much, maybe clunky, at times but really good nonetheless.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    edited April 2018 Posts: 628
    bondsum wrote: »
    It probably doesn't make a lot of sense because you've had plenty of years to digest the ending of OHMSS and know the consequences of that infamous downer ending and what followed on from it.

    OHMSS earned its downbeat ending because the story was carefully constructed and the characters given time to breathe.

    Most of INFINITY WAR consists of characters being dropped into a scene to announce "We need to go here and do this because reasons," like talking action figures. The exception being Thanos and Gamora, but their conflict belongs in a GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY sequel. (Since I paid $13 to see an Avengers movie, I would have liked to have seen an Avengers movie).
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    Interesting comments on IW appears the film maybe too over hyped, I almost watched it yesterday though could not be bothered in the end, for fear of major spoilers I'll force myself to watch it on Monday.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am postponing it as well, maybe next weekend.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited April 2018 Posts: 25,092
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I am postponing it as well, maybe next weekend.

    I think my interest in comic book/graphic novel adapted movies has wained, there are too many of them and mediocre for the most part. Though I hear Josh Brolin is brilliant as Thanos so that's the main reason I'll watch Infinity War.
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    Posts: 628
    I'm excited about ANT-MAN AND THE WASP. It looks like the kind of fun (and funny) superhero adventure that I've enjoyed from the MCU.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Infinity War earns $105 million domestic on Friday at the box office, with an extra $39 million from Thursday night previews.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Infinity War earns $105 million domestic on Friday at the box office, with an extra $39 million from Thursday night previews.

    Is that a lot for a superhero film?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    I'm excited about ANT-MAN AND THE WASP. It looks like the kind of fun (and funny) superhero adventure that I've enjoyed from the MCU.

    The trailer for that did look fun.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Infinity War earns $105 million domestic on Friday at the box office, with an extra $39 million from Thursday night previews.

    Is that a lot for a superhero film?

    It will most certainly be the 2nd biggest domestic opening of all time.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    JamesBondKenya wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Infinity War earns $105 million domestic on Friday at the box office, with an extra $39 million from Thursday night previews.

    Is that a lot for a superhero film?

    Uh, that's HUGE for ANY film in general. It took SP about 6 months just to hit $200 million. IW made more than half of SP's domestic run in 1 day!

    Anyway, my ranking of all 19 films of the MCU...

    1 - Infinity War 
    2 - Black Panther 
    3 - Winter Soldier
    4 - Avengers
    5 - Civil War

    6 - Iron Man
    7 - First Avenger
    8 - Spider-man Homecoming 
    9 - Doctor Strange
    10 - Thor Ragnarok

    11 - Age of Ultron
    12 - Guardians of the Galaxy 
    13 - Iron Man 3
    14 - Guardians of the Galaxy 2
    15 - Ant-Man

    16 - Thor
    17 - Iron Man 2
    18 - Thor Dark World
    19 - Incredible Hulk
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited April 2018 Posts: 25,092
    My top 5 MCU films...
    1. Winter Soldier
    2. Civil War
    3. Avengers
    4. First Avenger
    5. Iron Man
    Not seen BP or IW
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    My top 5 MCU films...
    1. Winter Soldier
    2. Civil War
    3. Avengers
    4. First Avenger
    5. Iron Man
    Not seen BP or IW

    Nice to see first Avenger in your top 5. It's a criminally underrated film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm tentatively going with the following as of now:

    -Winter Soldier
    -Iron Man
    -Avengers
    -Thor Ragnarok
    -Civil War
    -Iron Man 3
    -Infinity War
    -Age of Ultron
    -Spider Man Homecoming
    -Iron Man 2
    -Black Panther
    -Thor
    -Ant Man
    -Doctor Strange
    -First Avenger
    -Thor Dark World
    -Incredible Hulk

    I haven't seen the Guardians films.
    --

    @bondsum, just to clarify, I was referring to QoS in my post above and not OHMSS. I saw similarities between Craig's second entry and IW in terms of the very action driven narrative without a lot of clarifying background for those who haven't followed the entire universe (similar to how QoS could seem a tad disjointed unless viewed as a CR sequel). Oh, and I quite agree with you that IW can only be properly judged once its sequel is out next year to complete the story.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    My top 5 MCU films...
    1. Winter Soldier
    2. Civil War
    3. Avengers
    4. First Avenger
    5. Iron Man
    Not seen BP or IW

    Nice to see first Avenger in your top 5. It's a criminally underrated film.

    The Captain America films make a great trilogy
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2018 Posts: 15,716
    @doubleoego we have the same 3 films on top, only I would rank Winter Soldier in 1st place. Apart from that, I'd put Ant-Man, the first Guardians, Dr Strange and Thor Ragnarok higher than you did.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    My top 5 MCU films...
    1. Winter Soldier
    2. Civil War
    3. Avengers
    4. First Avenger
    5. Iron Man
    Not seen BP or IW

    Nice to see first Avenger in your top 5. It's a criminally underrated film.

    The Captain America films make a great trilogy

    They certainly do. It's my favourite comic book trilogy and to think, when they announced they were making the first film I was certain it would flop. So happy things turned out differently.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    @doubleoego we have the same 3 films on top, only I would rank Winter Soldier in 1st place. Apart from that, I'd put Ant-Man, the first Guardians, Dr Strange and Thor Ragnarok higher than you did.

    I suspect my rankings may change somewhat by the time spider-man homecoming 2 comes out next year but I'm just glad these films in general are good. It's a great time for fans.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,092
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    My top 5 MCU films...
    1. Winter Soldier
    2. Civil War
    3. Avengers
    4. First Avenger
    5. Iron Man
    Not seen BP or IW

    Nice to see first Avenger in your top 5. It's a criminally underrated film.

    The Captain America films make a great trilogy

    They certainly do. It's my favourite comic book trilogy and to think, when they announced they were making the first film I was certain it would flop. So happy things turned out differently.

    In terms of consistent quality the Cap films certainly give The Dark Knight Trilogy a run for its money, I am a big fan of WW1 and WW2 era movies I was quietly confident with the First Avenger and the film was certainly in Joe Johnston's wheelhouse having made films like The Rocketeer.
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